Seperation of Church & State thread:11-14-06 Toys for Tots rejects talking Jesus Doll

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Dec. 25th was a pagan holiday long before the Christians stole it.

The concept of Christmas lights and trees is based on pagan celebrations. The holiday itself gets it's date from a Persian religion which celebrates December 25th as the birth of Mithra the sun god.

 

[slash196]

Thumbs up to the marines. For every jackbooted pinhead that gets caught murdering civilians or planting evidence there are at least ten upright men our country can be proud of.

 

[Stunt]

Maybe it was a voodoo doll

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
I'm not aware of any link on this, but it can be calculated by the events leading to the birth of John the Baptist. His father was a preist of a particular course, which always was in charge of the temple at a given time of year. The angel which announced the birth of John to his father appeared in the temple. John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus, so by mathematical calculation, and adjusting for the Jewish calendar, Christ was conceived on Christmas and born on September 29, give or take a couple of days.

". . . give or take a couple of days"??? Try a couple of weeks: "6 months older than Jesus" is a pretty vague statement.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Why would muslim kids get toys at Christmas?

Its cultural. When I was little I had the tree, the lights, even santa visit me...the whole shebang except presents because we were too poor to have those so me and little brother would wrap up our current toys in newspaper just to give it to each other for the excitement factor

Not to be mean at all - but Christmas is much more of a celebration of vacation time than it is a religious observance. It is like thanksgiving - any holiday that is about thinking about family and getting together is a good holiday!

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Dec. 25th was a pagan holiday long before the Christians stole it.

So? Are you a pagan? Do you dance around bondfires at the winter solstice?

That statement shows your complete ignorance of the subject. Not that I'd expect anything different from a fundie.

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: AnyMal
That statement shows your complete ignorance of the subject. Not that I'd expect anything different from a fundie.

And what does your statement demonstrate, other than your antipathy toward Christianity? Go ahead and demonstrate your brilliance. Send me off quivering in shame. It should be easy for a person such as yourself, with your profound depth of knowledge and your masterful manner of articulation.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Corbett
Another CHristian bashing thread started by dmcowen! What a surprise!

What percentage of your posts contain the phrase "Christian bashing"?

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: thraashman

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Dec. 25th was a pagan holiday long before the Christians stole it.

The concept of Christmas lights and trees is based on pagan celebrations. The holiday itself gets it's date from a Persian religion which celebrates December 25th as the birth of Mithra the sun god.

Wasnt she in D&D?

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Why would muslim kids get toys at Christmas?

How many Non-Christians practice Christmas? I do myself, but not in any religious manner, I also found the guy who was doing the donating to be a little offensive:

"The idea was for them to be three-dimensional teaching tools for kids," La Roe said. "I believe as a churchgoing person, anyone can benefit from hearing the words of the Bible."

I myself am not Christian and am rather insulted that he feels all us heathens would benefit from his religion. Kudos to the Marines for turning down these toys, after all the only way I see this donation working is by pre-screening your recipients to make sure they are Christian.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: TravisT
You know, it is sad to see them turn down toys, but even as a Christian, I do think that you should avoid pushing religion on others. Living your life by example is 10 more times effective than telling someone they are wrong or bringing your agenda to their household.

It is sad that many Christian families would not be able to receive the benefits of the 4,000 dolls willing to be given out. To bad there would be no way to identify what household would be offended by such a thing.

But for that donation to work the Marines would have to screen those families to make sure the gift is appropriate.

edit: Sorry, just noticed you said that

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: AnyMal
That statement shows your complete ignorance of the subject. Not that I'd expect anything different from a fundie.

And what does your statement demonstrate, other than your antipathy toward Christianity? Go ahead and demonstrate your brilliance. Send me off quivering in shame. It should be easy for a person such as yourself, with your profound depth of knowledge and your masterful manner of articulation.

I have no antipathy towards Christianity, it is bible-thumping hollier-then-thou fundamentalist crowd I dislike. Fundies have no concept of shame. Fundies could care less about God or Jesus, or Christianity for that matter, all they care about is money and power. They have no qualms about commiting the very sins they preach against, robbing believers of their faith. On the whole, I see no difference between Christian or Muslim fundies.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: blackllotus

Originally posted by: Corbett
Another CHristian bashing thread started by dmcowen! What a surprise!

What percentage of your posts contain the phrase "Christian bashing"?

Probably the same as those which dmcowen has made?!?!

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: TravisT
You know, it is sad to see them turn down toys, but even as a Christian, I do think that you should avoid pushing religion on others. Living your life by example is 10 more times effective than telling someone they are wrong or bringing your agenda to their household.

It is sad that many Christian families would not be able to receive the benefits of the 4,000 dolls willing to be given out. To bad there would be no way to identify what household would be offended by such a thing.

But for that donation to work the Marines would have to screen those families to make sure the gift is appropriate.

edit: Sorry, just noticed you said that

I wouldn't consider those Jesus dolls toys any more so than getting a book full of bible quotes would be considered one. Maybe good to teach the kids religion, but a crap toy.

 

[fitzov]

But, as far as the Church or it's members being able to participate in politics, as are any other organization, you had better get used to it, because that is not going to change...unless you get elected president, and I have no fear of that ever happening.

I'm afraid you misunderstand the Jeffersonian view of religious organizations being able to participate in politics. It's not that organizations, as some kind of fictional entity apart from people, are given rights to consent to or benefit from government; it is that people, whether they be a member of this or that religion, have the same individual rights as any other person.

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: thraashman

Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Dec. 25th was a pagan holiday long before the Christians stole it.

The concept of Christmas lights and trees is based on pagan celebrations. The holiday itself gets it's date from a Persian religion which celebrates December 25th as the birth of Mithra the sun god.

Exactly... man that brings back memories from Anthropology of Religion. Christians at the time simply wanted an alternative holiday to celebrate, since they didn't worship Mithra, so they started celebrating the birth of Christ, rather than the birth of Mithra.

 

[Trevelyan]

Originally posted by: fitzov

But, as far as the Church or it's members being able to participate in politics, as are any other organization, you had better get used to it, because that is not going to change...unless you get elected president, and I have no fear of that ever happening.

I'm afraid you misunderstand the Jeffersonian view of religious organizations being able to participate in politics. It's not that organizations, as some kind of fictional entity apart from people, are given rights to consent to or benefit from government; it is that people, whether they be a member of this or that religion, have the same individual rights as any other person.

Yeah, exactly. People seem to think stopping a church from making political contributions is the same thing as preventing a preacher from becoming an elected official.

My spiritual beliefs should never stop me from being able to vote or have an opinion on political matters. If that starts happening then we've got a problem.

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: AnyMal
I have no antipathy towards Christianity, it is bible-thumping hollier-then-thou fundamentalist crowd I dislike. Fundies have no concept of shame. Fundies could care less about God or Jesus, or Christianity for that matter, all they care about is money and power. They have no qualms about commiting the very sins they preach against, robbing believers of their faith. On the whole, I see no difference between Christian or Muslim fundies.

Let's see, as long as a Christian keeps his mouth shut, and doesn't bother you, then you like Christians just fine...right? Since you see no link to PayPal or some political or religious website in my posts, I guess it might be safe to say that I'm not looking for money or power. Therefore, I do not fit that definition of fundie, so there must be some other reason for you to pin that label on me. Would you like to try again?

EDIT: Since I know of no Christians running around the world blowing up tall buildings, or hyjacking aircraft, slaughtering innocent people, I fail to understand your equating Christian and Muslim fundamentalism. I still need further clarification.

 

[teclado]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's about time our Government start rejecting the church injecting itself into every corner.

It is very apparent the religious will not stop at anything and are getting more desperate as they lose grip on the American Sheeple.

What's wrong with a gift of hope?

I, for one, do not recognize the seperation of church and state nonsense to begin with. Sure, I think it would be very bad to have a church run government, but I think America has taken it too far. Now, instead of a Catholic run government that we escaped from in England, we have an Atheist run government. Better? Worse? Meh? You decide.

 

[jackschmittusa]

teclado

I'm sure that GWB and all of the Repub Congressmen that rushed to the Shaivo legeslation will be happy to hear you call them athiests.

 

[MikeO]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: Rangoric

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

False. Christmas was not the date of Christ's birth, so in that fashion it is celebrated wrongly. But, it was the date of His conception, therefore it is a day to be celebrated.

I find that interesting. I may not agree with you saying false for how many people will say its his conception as opposed to his birth.

But alink to info on that would be cool, I had never heard that before.

I'm not aware of any link on this, but it can be calculated by the events leading to the birth of John the Baptist. His father was a preist of a particular course, which always was in charge of the temple at a given time of year. The angel which announced the birth of John to his father appeared in the temple. John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus, so by mathematical calculation, and adjusting for the Jewish calendar, Christ was conceived on Christmas and born on September 29, give or take a couple of days.

LMAO, one of the better sources of humor on this earth is religious people and their "mathematical calculations" to prove something :laugh: We add this to that, adjust it to this calendar, add 1 for daylight savings and put a three there and multiply the whole thing by 2,764 and we can clearly see that... :laugh:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: teclado

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's about time our Government start rejecting the church injecting itself into every corner.

It is very apparent the religious will not stop at anything and are getting more desperate as they lose grip on the American Sheeple.

What's wrong with a gift of hope?

I, for one, do not recognize the seperation of church and state nonsense to begin with. Sure, I think it would be very bad to have a church run government, but I think America has taken it too far. Now, instead of a Catholic run government that we escaped from in England, we have an Atheist run government. Better? Worse? Meh? You decide.

Welcome to P&N

So are you saying you would vote for Ted Haggard for President???

 

[piasabird]

Christmas is a celebration of the Birth of Christ.

Jesus is the Reason for the Season!



Toys for Tots is not the government. This could backfire. I think we put too much into this. Christmas is about giving gifts to people we care about in memory of how gifts were given to Baby Jesus. I would not try to make this out as a strictly religious thing. This program is about compassion for people who are not as well off as we may be.

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: AnyMal
I have no antipathy towards Christianity, it is bible-thumping hollier-then-thou fundamentalist crowd I dislike. Fundies have no concept of shame. Fundies could care less about God or Jesus, or Christianity for that matter, all they care about is money and power. They have no qualms about commiting the very sins they preach against, robbing believers of their faith. On the whole, I see no difference between Christian or Muslim fundies.

Let's see, as long as a Christian keeps his mouth shut, and doesn't bother you, then you like Christians just fine...right? Since you see no link to PayPal or some political or religious website in my posts, I guess it might be safe to say that I'm not looking for money or power. Therefore, I do not fit that definition of fundie, so there must be some other reason for you to pin that label on me. Would you like to try again?

EDIT: Since I know of no Christians running around the world blowing up tall buildings, or hyjacking aircraft, slaughtering innocent people, I fail to understand your equating Christian and Muslim fundamentalism. I still need further clarification.

Surely you won't deny that Christians slaughtered millions of people in the name of religion? When did I ever said anything about Christians should keep their mouth shut? You can say whatever you want, I could care less. Unlike fundies, I believe in freedom of speech.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: teclado

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's about time our Government start rejecting the church injecting itself into every corner.

It is very apparent the religious will not stop at anything and are getting more desperate as they lose grip on the American Sheeple.

What's wrong with a gift of hope?

I, for one, do not recognize the seperation of church and state nonsense to begin with. Sure, I think it would be very bad to have a church run government, but I think America has taken it too far. Now, instead of a Catholic run government that we escaped from in England, we have an Atheist run government. Better? Worse? Meh? You decide.

Welcome to P&N

So are you saying you would vote for Ted Haggard for President???

Ted Haggard has no less moral screwups than those of Bill Clinton. A president I am sure YOU would re-elect if you could. It is a true double standard among those like youself how are so quick to point out the faults of people they hate, but not those of the ones they admire.