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Separation of church and state on birth control

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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
You are conceding you were wrong on the previous point and moving on to a new one?
Why would I be wrong about it. Forcing people to buy the insurance and not being able to drop it will ensure the insurance companies can do what makes them happy. Why wouldn't they be happy about gaining the power to do what makes them happy?

EDIT: More clarification:

Making profits makes a company happy. Making a LOT of profits makes a company VERY happy. The more profits, the happier the company. If a company can take in money and not pay any out, its profits are amazingly high. This makes a company amazingly happy. No company will ever reach this point, but it is the goal.

It really is not a hard concept to follow.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
It won't pass because the dems do not care that they are alienating people such as Vice President Biden. Biden is against this plan of Obama. You know it is bad when the VP publically opposes the plans of the P.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,285
113
106
Wow what a circus! I HOPE the GOP drags this out longer

I love how they are doubling down on the issue.

60% or so of americans want/need contraceptives covered by insurance. This was a great move by the administration
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
15,872
3,449
136
It won't pass because the dems do not care that they are alienating people such as Vice President Biden. Biden is against this plan of Obama. You know it is bad when the VP publically opposes the plans of the P.
You read/watch too much Faux News, Biden's fine with it now.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
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You read/watch too much Fox News, Biden's fine with it now.
Fixed your mispelling. Faux News is a parody site, I never visit it. Most likely, only a small handful of people actually ever do visit it.

I missed the part about Biden being fine with Obama's capitulation. Thanks for the update. I know Obama had no issue with pissing Biden off at the start, though.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,897
638
126
Has anyone considered that all this contraceptive use by the poor could rob us of a future President? What if access to contraceptives were more widely available in Hawaii in 1961?
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,285
113
106
Fixed your mispelling. Faux News is a parody site, I never visit it. Most likely, only a small handful of people actually ever do visit it.

I missed the part about Biden being fine with Obama's capitulation. Thanks for the update. I know Obama had no issue with pissing Biden off at the start, though.
Is this the new talking point?

Obama Vs Biden?

:)
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
8,990
84
91
Has anyone considered that all this contraceptive use by the poor could rob us of a future President? What if access to contraceptives were more widely available in Hawaii in 1961?
You are correct. The GOP should immediately switch positions. Abortions and pills for everyone!*

:thumbsup:










*not really. This post is pure sarcasm.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
8,990
84
91
It won't pass because the dems do not care that they are alienating people such as Vice President Biden. Biden is against this plan of Obama. You know it is bad when the VP publically opposes the plans of the P.
Biden is also Catholic. That doesn't mean that he and Obama are at odds over larger policy goals. Honestly, I would think something is wrong if a president and vp didn't disagree publicly every once in a while.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Biden is also Catholic. That doesn't mean that he and Obama are at odds over larger policy goals. Honestly, I would think something is wrong if a president and vp didn't disagree publicly every once in a while.

Since he is catholic, he should be against the rulling, as he has to follow the lead of his church. That simply shows what I was saying prior to Obama giving in, which was that Obama had to give in or else risk losing the Catholic vote.

A VP should not publically disagree with the P, but privately is an entirely different ballgame. They should argue (in a friendly way) over points of importance.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,121
13,062
136
Yes, Obama changed his policy due to pressure from the Catholic Church. It is over.
Heh. Obama must have been wrong all along, huh?

Policy didn't change- implementation did for a very small group of workers. Under the new law, contraception is still 100% covered by health plans.

Unless you're making claims to the contrary. Are you?

But keep trying to salvage some sort of "victory" out of this The way you insist on discrediting yourself in this manner is telling.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
11,500
2,709
136
Since he is catholic, he should be against the rulling, as he has to follow the lead of his church. That simply shows what I was saying prior to Obama giving in, which was that Obama had to give in or else risk losing the Catholic vote.

A VP should not publically disagree with the P, but privately is an entirely different ballgame. They should argue (in a friendly way) over points of importance.
I'm certain Biden got Obama's blessings on publicly disagreeing with his boss, as Biden had to preemtively assure his fellow Catholics of his commitment to his faith. His disclosure also mitigates any negative commentary coming from across the aisle IRT this issue.

Also, in support of your final comment, if I recall correctly, protocol dictates that it is the duty of the second in command in an heirarchy (especially so for the military) to offer alternative points of view to help the first in command in the decision making process. Being in disagreement is a mere consequence of that process as the first in command always have the final say on any issue under discussion.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,657
4,480
126
http://pollingreport.com/abortion.htm
This is a loser for Republicans.

Fox News Poll conducted by Anderson Robbins Research (D) and Shaw & Company Research (R). Feb. 6-9, 2012. N=1,110 registered voters nationwide. Margin of error ± 3.


"The new Obama health care law requires that employer health plans provide birth control coverage as part of preventive services for women. Overall, do you approve or disapprove of requiring employer health plans to cover birth control for women?"


Approve Disapprove Unsure
% % %

ALL

61 34 5

Democrats

80 16 4

Republicans

39 57 5

Independents

58 34 8

Men

53 40 7

Women

67 29 4

34 & younger

74 21 5

35-54

62 33 5

55 & older

50 43 6
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Heh. Obama must have been wrong all along, huh?

Policy didn't change
Had to stop you there. It did change. Do you really need me to quote the change again...is reading ths rather short thread too difficult for you?
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
I'm certain Biden got Obama's blessings on publicly disagreeing with his boss, as Biden had to preemtively assure his fellow Catholics of his commitment to his faith. His disclosure also mitigates any negative commentary coming from across the aisle IRT this issue.
That is quite possibly what happened. Never can be sure with Biden, though, the man is a walking Gaffe Machine.

Also, in support of your final comment, if I recall correctly, protocol dictates that it is the duty of the second in command in an heirarchy (especially so for the military) to offer alternative points of view to help the first in command in the decision making process. Being in disagreement is a mere consequence of that process as the first in command always have the final say on any issue under discussion.
Agreed, which is why I would expect it to be done in public, and quite often. He is to be the devil's advocate, so to speak - or at least he should be, IMO.
 

Jhhnn

No Lifer
Nov 11, 1999
61,121
13,062
136
Had to stop you there. It did change. Do you really need me to quote the change again...is reading ths rather short thread too difficult for you?
I see you're trying to create definitions to suit your argument, again.

The policy goal, from the start, was to mandate contraception provision as a 100% covered feature of healthcare insurance under the new law.

That didn't change, at all.

Delivery methods for a small subset of people did change. Contraception services remain 100% covered.

Here's what he said. Pay particular attention at the 4:20 mark-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRFNeIzkM38
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,065
9,939
136
It won't pass because the dems do not care that they are alienating people such as Vice President Biden. Biden is against this plan of Obama. You know it is bad when the VP publically opposes the plans of the P.
That's why this President is actually the President. He makes the final call no matter what his VP says. Biden was also against giving the go on Bin Laden beatdown.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,065
9,939
136
Had to stop you there. It did change. Do you really need me to quote the change again...is reading ths rather short thread too difficult for you?
before modification...
women working for catholic institutions get free contraceptives.

after modification...
women working for catholic institutions get free contraceptives.


since that is the goal
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,936
1
0
Goalpost moving, they name is Jhhnn
If the purpose of the policy was to oppress the Catholics and deny their religious freedoms, then the president did indeed fail.

If, however, the purpose was to ensure insurance coverage for contraception, that end has not changed.
 

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