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Separation of church and state on birth control

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Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
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LOL - Obama is an idiot.
So the charity/church won't have to pay for birth control rather the insurance company.

Where exactly does Obama think that the insurance company gets the money to pay for the birth control.

What a joke.
THANK YOU. I was riding in my car with my wife when I heard him spew this fallacious bullshit. I actually turned the radio off after he said 4 different times that it would be "FREE".

This will be provided for "FREE" by the insurance company. Really Mr. Obama? They've signed up to pay for it out of their profits, promise never to make others pay a dime....

Lying piece of shit. Another cost casually passed on to people who don't have giant superpacs that he's against. Or is it for. I can't keep track.

The sad part is, I considered voting for Obama way back when. He almost suckered me with his whole 'hope' and 'change'. To bad we've had neither, and he's just another crappy politician.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
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It's a regulation of insurance, not church. Just like if regulations required health insurance to cover blood transfusions that Jehova's witnesses object to, it would not be an infringement on anyone's religious rights, just a reasonable regulation to cover actual health care.
Yeah, and the insurance companies are merely going to pull the money out of their ass?

NO, they are going to increase costs for everyone to absorb it. Which means, once again, that the general working population will be paying to give folks who work for certain 'special' places like schools and religious affiliated businesses things for free.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,661
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Yeah, and the insurance companies are merely going to pull the money out of their ass?

NO, they are going to increase costs for everyone to absorb it. Which means, once again, that the general working population will be paying to give folks who work for certain 'special' places like schools and religious affiliated businesses things for free.
If employees of Catholic institution don't use birth control, that will be priced into the cost of their group policy.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
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If employees of Catholic institution don't use birth control, that will be priced into the cost of their group policy.
English. Do you speak it?

These 'special' companies don't pay for it now. They won't pay for it in the future. The insurance companies will. Meaning that the costs will be spread across everyone.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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English. Do you speak it?

These 'special' companies don't pay for it now. They won't pay for it in the future. The insurance companies will. Meaning that the costs will be spread across everyone.
If these workers don't use birth control, there is no birth control cost added by them. These are group policies, priced based on expected health care costs of that group.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
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If these workers don't use birth control, there is no birth control cost added by them.
This is a fun game where you try to tap dance around the fact that the average person is going to pay for religious institution's birth control costs.

So... let's keep going. By your logic then, they passed this law for no good reason, because no one at these places wanted birth control anyway, right? Obama just flipped a coin and decided to pass this particular law today, and not another one. Because no one wanted it. Right? Right?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,661
4,483
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This is a fun game where you try to tap dance around the fact that the average person is going to pay for religious institution's birth control costs.

So... let's keep going. By your logic then, they passed this law for no good reason, because no one at these places wanted birth control anyway, right? Obama just flipped a coin and decided to pass this particular law today, and not another one. Because no one wanted it. Right? Right?
Religious Catholics don't use birth control. Hospitals operated by the Church are not religious institutions, and should not have exemptions that other hospitals don't have.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
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Religious Catholics don't use birth control. Hospitals operated by the Church are not religious institutions, and should not have exemptions that other hospitals don't have.
Still can't answer the question huh? So who pays for the religious institutions "free" birth control that the insurance companies will provide directly because of Obama?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,661
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Still can't answer the question huh? So who pays for the religious institutions "free" birth control that the insurance companies will provide directly because of Obama?
Who pays for birth control that religious Catholics don't use? We all pay, nothing.
 

the DRIZZLE

Platinum Member
Sep 6, 2007
2,955
0
76
This really is a ridiculous issue. I don't see it as church and state issue but simply as government micromanaging the relationship between employers and employees for no good reason. Is there really a crisis in the country of employed women not being able to afford birth control? How about insurance companies have to give away cholesterol lowering drugs because heart attacks are bad?

As usual Obama was intellectually dishonest in pretending that employers don't ultimately pay for this. I say that he was intellectually dishonest because he can't possibly be dumb enough to believe what he said.
 

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
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Yeah, and the insurance companies are merely going to pull the money out of their ass?

NO, they are going to increase costs for everyone to absorb it. Which means, once again, that the general working population will be paying to give folks who work for certain 'special' places like schools and religious affiliated businesses things for free.
Umm... insurance companies are happy to supply contraceptives, since it is cheaper in the long run than the costs of abortion or childbirth.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
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Umm... insurance companies are happy to supply contraceptives, since it is cheaper in the long run than the costs of abortion or childbirth.
Cite of an insurance agency that will allow me to sign up to receive free contraceptive measures?
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
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Who pays for birth control that religious Catholics don't use? We all pay, nothing.
I see. So that is agreement on your part that Obama passed a worthless, useless law just because he felt like it.

Thanks for playing.

This is the exact type of thing the stickied post talks about at the top the forums - logical fallacy and reasoning obfuscation in an attempt to deny the obvious and truthful conclusion that any sane person would make.

I can't wait for them to put those rules into effect so you'll be banned for this type of stupidty.
 
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Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
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Bull. There are many reasons besides contraception that women take birth control. Sometimes, there are even medical reasons why a woman should avoid pregnancy. My wife is epileptic, and her medications would do some very nasty things to her and a fetus during an unplanned pregnancy. If I worked for one of those institutions, I'd damn sure want it covered - and I'm catholic! As far as your last statement there, it most certainly does limit access to birth control. You cannot blind yourself to that economic reality. For many people, if their employer provided health insurance doesn't cover it, they often go without despite the risks. You want to remove this from the equation, make birth control available over the counter...
Dear MovingTarget,

As a Catholic who directly supports this law, can you please explain to our friend Senseamp that he is incorrect is his blatently false statement that no catholic will utilize this so-called "FREE" service that will cost everyone money?

Thanks.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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I see. So that is agreement on your part that Obama passed a worthless, useless law just because he felt like it.
Thanks for playing.
It's useful for non-religious workers at non-religious institutions operated by the Catholic church.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
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It's useful for non-religious workers at non-religious institutions operated by the Catholic church.
Wow. Only 10 or so posts to get you to admit people will use it, after stating in 3 posts that NO one would use it.

So who's paying for it?
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
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Answer? I'm pretty sure you can't get free birth control pills if you are a man.


Sure. Pick any company affected by the new law.
Complete logical failure.

You cannot dite your stated position: that insurance companies are 'happy' to hand out "free" birth control.

Let's play a little game. If insurance companies are so ready to hand out free birth control, why did Obama have to pass a law forcing them to do so?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Wow. Only 10 or so posts to get you to admit people will use it, after stating in 3 posts that NO one would use it.

So who's paying for it?
No one at a solely religious institution would use it, unless some nuns are getting molested by priests, in which case it's better for everyone involved if they do use it.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,225
306
126
No one at a solely religious institution would use it, unless some nuns are getting molested by priests, in which case it's better for everyone involved if they do use it.
And with that well reasoned and informed post, clearly the pinnacle of logic and rationality, clearly backed up with factual data, I bid you goodbye.

Congratulations Obama, for passing a bill that, according to Cerpin Taxt wasn't needed because insurance companies hand out free birth control.

Congratulations Obama, for passing a bill that, according to SenseAmp, is free, because it will never be used.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
103,568
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Shouldn't the Catholic church be more concerned about how they turned a blind eye to hundreds, likely thousands of child rapes over several decades, before they start worrying about controlling women's bodies?
 

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