Seoul National University students are "brighter" than Harvard students.

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Sheepathon

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2003
6,093
7
81
Education in S Korea has much higher priority than in the US. Physical punishment is still accepted in S Korean schools. If you talk to the 70s generation, a teacher can punch you in the face for disobeying or answering a question incorrectly. This has declined a lot, but it?s still a norm. Classical examples ? lift up your pants, expose your calves, chain your calves. Or whacked you on the head. Or the bottom of your feet. Parents will actually go to teachers and say thank you for hitting my child, disciplining them. So some student skipped a class to attend a social event. Funerals, weddings, whatever, you can?t miss class for that.
5th grader schedule in S Korea: 3pm, official classes are over. Do they go watch tv, egg cars, whatever? Nope, they go to private institutions. Often, the typical classes taught at these private schools are English, math, writing, and the asian obsession with piano. Avg hw for a S Korean student is 6-8 hrs. Teachers have been sued for not giving enough hw.

Once you get into university, what do you do? You will never study again. Colleges are fkn party central in S Korea. Same in Japan. In Japanese and Korean society, they?re obsessed with getting into top university because it will determine the course of your life. Korean businessmen say 4 years of college was best years of their life. Before hell, after hell, but those 4 years are mad fun. Here in the US, you can go to Harvard or Cal State Fresno, but it?s up to you to succeed, though obviously it's a bit easier for the Harvard grads. Still, we have a much more open system. Countries like korea and japan will look at where you graduate from and that will be it.

If you are a Seoul National grad, the world is your oyster. Degree is equiv to gold. You can be an untrustworthy farting fool, but omgwtfseouluniversity GOLD. Those that fail to get into Seoul or the top 3 in S Korea, where do they go? Harvard and Berkeley. And getting into Harvard is actually easy for them. And they find out that here in the US you have to study and go to lecture, and they?re like wtf? But because they?re such slackers in college, the productive level of research and development in asian universities is subpar to American universities. So you wonder how they get hired by Sony, Samsung, etc. Well, you learn everything you need to know day 1 when you enter the company.

Cliffs notes:
It's much much harder for students in S Korea to get into Seoul U than it is for students in America to get into Harvard because of the astronomical focus on education in that country. Kids start doing 8 hours of homework a day before age 8. To get into Seoul U, you most likely need to go to the top top high schools. To get to those high schools, you need to go to the top top middle schools, and elementary, all the way to when you're little more than a 5 year old. But S Korean big firms, companies, etc, see the Seoul U degree and immediately say "You're hired." That's why you see 30 year olds still studying for the goddam CSAT (college entrance exam). But once you get into Seoul U, or the other top two, Yonsei and Korea University, you are SET. This is why American U's productivity and research > Korean universities. But the students at Seoul U are easily much more highly qualified because of the ungodly amount of preparation required to get in.
 

Proletariat

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2004
5,614
0
0
Originally posted by: Sheepathon
Education in S Korea has much higher priority than in the US. Physical punishment is still accepted in S Korean schools. If you talk to the 70s generation, a teacher can punch you in the face for disobeying or answering a question incorrectly. This has declined a lot, but it?s still a norm. Classical examples ? lift up your pants, expose your calves, chain your calves. Or whacked you on the head. Or the bottom of your feet. Parents will actually go to teachers and say thank you for hitting my child, disciplining them. So some student skipped a class to attend a social event. Funerals, weddings, whatever, you can?t miss class for that.
5th grader schedule in S Korea: 3pm, official classes are over. Do they go watch tv, egg cars, whatever? Nope, they go to private institutions. Often, the typical classes taught at these private schools are English, math, writing, and the asian obsession with piano. Avg hw for a S Korean student is 6-8 hrs. Teachers have been sued for not giving enough hw.

Once you get into university, what do you do? You will never study again. Colleges are fkn party central in S Korea. Same in Japan. In Japanese and Korean society, they?re obsessed with getting into top university because it will determine the course of your life. Korean businessmen say 4 years of college was best years of their life. Before hell, after hell, but those 4 years are mad fun. Here in the US, you can go to Harvard or Cal State Fresno, but it?s up to you to succeed, though obviously it's a bit easier for the Harvard grads. Still, we have a much more open system. Countries like korea and japan will look at where you graduate from and that will be it.

If you are a Seoul National grad, the world is your oyster. Degree is equiv to gold. You can be an untrustworthy farting fool, but omgwtfseouluniversity GOLD. Those that fail to get into Seoul or the top 3 in S Korea, where do they go? Harvard and Berkeley. And getting into Harvard is actually easy for them. And they find out that here in the US you have to study and go to lecture, and they?re like wtf? But because they?re such slackers in college, the productive level of research and development in asian universities is subpar to American universities. So you wonder how they get hired by Sony, Samsung, etc. Well, you learn everything you need to know day 1 when you enter the company.

Cliffs notes:
It's much much harder for students in S Korea to get into Seoul U than it is for students in America to get into Harvard because of the astronomical focus on education in that country. Kids start doing 8 hours of homework a day before age 8. To get into Seoul U, you most likely need to go to the top top high schools. To get to those high schools, you need to go to the top top middle schools, and elementary, all the way to when you're little more than a 5 year old. But S Korean big firms, companies, etc, see the Seoul U degree and immediately say "You're hired." That's why you see 30 year olds still studying for the goddam CSAT (college entrance exam). But once you get into Seoul U, or the other top two, Yonsei and Korea University, you are SET. This is why American U's productivity and research > Korean universities. But the students at Seoul U are easily much more highly qualified because of the ungodly amount of preparation required to get in.
As its been said before America > Korea.
 

Sheepathon

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2003
6,093
7
81
Proletariat
Of course, from an American cultural perspective. But you have to understand, they don't see it as anything wrong to enforce the need for education. It's ingrained into the culture, going back many many years to Confucian principle that school/intelligence/knowledge > all.

America has a much higher economic output, of course. But S Korea, in the last half century, has gone leaps and bounds forward, and arguably, has advanced more in such a short time than any country in history. Around half a century ago, S Korea was nothing. People starving, totalitarian place, civil unrest, absolute shyt. Now, they're designing technology like small personal bendable flatscreen LCDs for the US military. Samsung has eclipsed companies like Sony and Panasonic and NEC. Hyundai, formerly the butt of all car jokes, now appears in consumer reports with less mechanical faults than Honda and Toyota. Sure, America > Korea in terms of military power, economic influence, etc. But Korea (South, anyway) is so vital today to world trade that it would be foolish to regard them as "just that inferior peninsula across the Pacific." And in regards to hitting your kids...honestly, sometimes kids deserve a spanking, don't they?
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
6,285
1
0
Originally posted by: Sheepathon
Education in S Korea has much higher priority than in the US. Physical punishment is still accepted in S Korean schools. If you talk to the 70s generation, a teacher can punch you in the face for disobeying or answering a question incorrectly. This has declined a lot, but it?s still a norm. Classical examples ? lift up your pants, expose your calves, chain your calves. Or whacked you on the head. Or the bottom of your feet. Parents will actually go to teachers and say thank you for hitting my child, disciplining them. So some student skipped a class to attend a social event. Funerals, weddings, whatever, you can?t miss class for that.
5th grader schedule in S Korea: 3pm, official classes are over. Do they go watch tv, egg cars, whatever? Nope, they go to private institutions. Often, the typical classes taught at these private schools are English, math, writing, and the asian obsession with piano. Avg hw for a S Korean student is 6-8 hrs. Teachers have been sued for not giving enough hw.

Once you get into university, what do you do? You will never study again. Colleges are fkn party central in S Korea. Same in Japan. In Japanese and Korean society, they?re obsessed with getting into top university because it will determine the course of your life. Korean businessmen say 4 years of college was best years of their life. Before hell, after hell, but those 4 years are mad fun. Here in the US, you can go to Harvard or Cal State Fresno, but it?s up to you to succeed, though obviously it's a bit easier for the Harvard grads. Still, we have a much more open system. Countries like korea and japan will look at where you graduate from and that will be it.

If you are a Seoul National grad, the world is your oyster. Degree is equiv to gold. You can be an untrustworthy farting fool, but omgwtfseouluniversity GOLD. Those that fail to get into Seoul or the top 3 in S Korea, where do they go? Harvard and Berkeley. And getting into Harvard is actually easy for them. And they find out that here in the US you have to study and go to lecture, and they?re like wtf? But because they?re such slackers in college, the productive level of research and development in asian universities is subpar to American universities. So you wonder how they get hired by Sony, Samsung, etc. Well, you learn everything you need to know day 1 when you enter the company.

Cliffs notes:
It's much much harder for students in S Korea to get into Seoul U than it is for students in America to get into Harvard because of the astronomical focus on education in that country. Kids start doing 8 hours of homework a day before age 8. To get into Seoul U, you most likely need to go to the top top high schools. To get to those high schools, you need to go to the top top middle schools, and elementary, all the way to when you're little more than a 5 year old. But S Korean big firms, companies, etc, see the Seoul U degree and immediately say "You're hired." That's why you see 30 year olds still studying for the goddam CSAT (college entrance exam). But once you get into Seoul U, or the other top two, Yonsei and Korea University, you are SET. This is why American U's productivity and research > Korean universities. But the students at Seoul U are easily much more highly qualified because of the ungodly amount of preparation required to get in.

I couldnt have said it better and agree with all your points you have made in your post. only thing i might add is SNU degree is GOLD like you say; you need EXPEREINCE on top of a degree from a reputable US college to secure a high ranking job, whereas a SNU degree will get you literally whaever you want. not only they know what level of work ethic they can expect from such a hardworker, but there also is a tremendous amount of cronysm that keeps other potentially more qualified individuals at bay.
 

saxophonoia

Platinum Member
Nov 6, 2003
2,835
1
0
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: DonVito
I tend to think any of several high-tier public universities (e.g., Michigan, Texas, Berkeley, Wisconsin) probably offer educations that are of a similar caliber to Ivy League schools, minus the grade inflation. IMO the big thing with Ivy League schools (as with universities in Japan) is getting in; once you're there, it's not particularly taxing.

I'll also observe that public schools are generally free of the kind of cronyism that gets marginal students into high-end private schools (by way of illustration, President Bush, a "C" student at Yale undergrad, even under a grade-inflated system, was turned down by UT law school prior to enrolling at Harvard Business School).

That's not really true, places like cornell and yale are VERY competetive. I had a friend from cornell who said that you could score a 91 on a test, but end up with a C because the classes were so competetive, all the grades were curved down.

However, harvard is an exception, like i said above, harvard is a third rate school (all hype), half the students get A's.

Well that's some bs. If everyone makes an A on a test then there's no way it should be curved down. There would be some action taken on my part, because in that situation the professor needs to make the test harder to compensate if he wants to do anything, not curve down.

 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: saxophonoia
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: DonVito
I tend to think any of several high-tier public universities (e.g., Michigan, Texas, Berkeley, Wisconsin) probably offer educations that are of a similar caliber to Ivy League schools, minus the grade inflation. IMO the big thing with Ivy League schools (as with universities in Japan) is getting in; once you're there, it's not particularly taxing.

I'll also observe that public schools are generally free of the kind of cronyism that gets marginal students into high-end private schools (by way of illustration, President Bush, a "C" student at Yale undergrad, even under a grade-inflated system, was turned down by UT law school prior to enrolling at Harvard Business School).

That's not really true, places like cornell and yale are VERY competetive. I had a friend from cornell who said that you could score a 91 on a test, but end up with a C because the classes were so competetive, all the grades were curved down.

However, harvard is an exception, like i said above, harvard is a third rate school (all hype), half the students get A's.

Well that's some bs. If everyone makes an A on a test then there's no way it should be curved down. There would be some action taken on my part, because in that situation the professor needs to make the test harder to compensate if he wants to do anything, not curve down.

Cornell is very, very well-known for grade deflation. This is contrary to other Ivies that practice grade inflation.
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Studies have shown that students from the SNU score better on average on Korean academic tests than Harvard students perform on Korean academic tests.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: jjsole
Studies have shown that students from the SNU score better on average on Korean academic tests than Harvard students perform on Korean academic tests.

Which means what exactly?

I'd also imagine that Harvard students perform better on American tests compared to SNU graduates.
 

DanTMWTMP

Lifer
Oct 7, 2001
15,908
19
81
Originally posted by: halik
yeah so that's why seoul community college is rated NUMBER ONE educational insitution in the world. Oh wait...

#120somethign vs #1 ... ooops

wooo UCSD = #13!! haha what the!!!


anyways, i'm korean, and I know people who worked their tails off to get into college alone. I knew a fellow coworker who was from Seoul Dae hak (Seoun nat. U). Then again, my boss graduated from Harvard. One was a young, promising researcher, while the other (boss from harvard) is an established researcher who's well known and respected in his field. Both are very very smart people, and both worked really well together.

Both have utmost respect for each other. The SNU grad was hired on the spot as a postdoc. I'm just a grunt who manages their network and stuff, but I've never seen anyone hired so fast.

I can tell you right now that non of us replying in this thread is no where near their level of preparedness, intelligence, aptitude, and discipline. All of us would sell our souls to the devil to be a graduate in either school. Why we are arguing in the place of others who are leaps and bounds more intelligent than us is beyond me.


Why are we all arguing on which university is better when we would die to get into any of these prestigious universities.

I'm just happy (ahahha) that halik's link shows the university that I attended is #13!!! who can beat me! ahah suckas :p :p :p (i wonder if that makes me more "prestigious" and "intelligent" and shiet.. *** still looking for a job *** ***hangs head in shame*** :p)


---

This thread is quickly turning into "flame koreans, america rules" thread.

Also, I hate the younger generation of koreans. They would not be in their properous state if it weren't for U.S.

I just can never get along with korean-americans my age or younger, especially the ones in korea town in LA. I hate them with a passion.


 

shuan24

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2003
2,558
0
0
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Attrox
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: J0hnny
America > *.*

you mean

america > *

theres are no countries that have . (periods) in their name...

J0hnny just got pwned!

Maybe he was making a reference to Asians, with the * portraying the stereotypical squinty eyes?

yes that is clearly what he meant. lol
 

Shlong

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2002
3,130
59
91
A good portion of Ivy League students are Asian. Wasn't there a movement where they wanted to limit Asian admittance into Ivy League schools because there were too many?
 

samgau

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 1999
2,403
0
0
Originally posted by: whitecloak
Originally posted by: computeerrgghh
No... IIT > * (and I don't even live in India)

word.

and I am an IITian ;)


I have friends who didn't get into IIT but got into MIT.... its crazy how hard it is go get in...:Q
 

Passions

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2000
6,855
3
0
That is absolutely ridiculous to say that IIT > MIT.

MIT is the finest and most respected engineering institution in the WORLD.

I'd have to give credit though and say IIT > Caltech.

 

samgau

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 1999
2,403
0
0
Of my class of 30, I would say about 1/4 went to Cambridge, another 1/4 to Oxford, a few got into MIT and a couple got into IIT, the rest
got spread all over the world, mainly France and Canada....
 

Miramonti

Lifer
Aug 26, 2000
28,653
100
106
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: jjsole
Studies have shown that students from the SNU score better on average on Korean academic tests than Harvard students perform on Korean academic tests.

Which means what exactly?

I'd also imagine that Harvard students perform better on American tests compared to SNU graduates.

Which means koreans know the korean language better, that's all. ;)
 

samgau

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 1999
2,403
0
0
Originally posted by: Passions
You had a graduating HS class of 30? wtf?

For the whole school, its about 110 graduating every year, but we are subdivided according to our majors, Arts, Economics(business) and science (my class) and yeah my class was only 30 strong...
 

Sheepathon

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2003
6,093
7
81
jjsole probably wasn't referring to actual studies, he just wanted to say something silly and people took him seriously, sheesh
 

RaynorWolfcastle

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
8,968
16
81
Originally posted by: saxophonoia
Originally posted by: Phokus
Originally posted by: DonVito
I tend to think any of several high-tier public universities (e.g., Michigan, Texas, Berkeley, Wisconsin) probably offer educations that are of a similar caliber to Ivy League schools, minus the grade inflation. IMO the big thing with Ivy League schools (as with universities in Japan) is getting in; once you're there, it's not particularly taxing.

I'll also observe that public schools are generally free of the kind of cronyism that gets marginal students into high-end private schools (by way of illustration, President Bush, a "C" student at Yale undergrad, even under a grade-inflated system, was turned down by UT law school prior to enrolling at Harvard Business School).

That's not really true, places like cornell and yale are VERY competetive. I had a friend from cornell who said that you could score a 91 on a test, but end up with a C because the classes were so competetive, all the grades were curved down.

However, harvard is an exception, like i said above, harvard is a third rate school (all hype), half the students get A's.

Well that's some bs. If everyone makes an A on a test then there's no way it should be curved down. There would be some action taken on my part, because in that situation the professor needs to make the test harder to compensate if he wants to do anything, not curve down.
I think this is why things are the way they are at my college. They kill everyone on nearly every test and then curve up to fit whatever grade distribution they want. It's kind of discouraging to come out of tests after getting slaughtered but somehow class averages always end up being in the B range.

Getting back to the point, it's a lot easier to tell a student that his grade has been curved up after a tough exam, than it is to tell him that he's been curved down after a fair or easy exam.
 

eLiu

Diamond Member
Jun 4, 2001
6,407
1
0
Originally posted by: Passions
That is absolutely ridiculous to say that IIT > MIT.

MIT is the finest and most respected engineering institution in the WORLD.

I'd have to give credit though and say IIT > Caltech.

Hell yes :D

I live with some Indian international students that chose MIT over IIT...one of them represented India in the IMO 3 times. From what they tell me, IIT might have tougher academics, but as far as atmosphere, undergraduate research, undergrad student activities, & future job opportunities, it's hard to beat american schools...for them, mit in particular.
 

Ranger X

Lifer
Mar 18, 2000
11,218
1
0
Originally posted by: halik
Originally posted by: J0hnny
America > *.*

you mean

america > *

theres are no countries that have . (periods) in their name...
It's more like

USA > *

"America" can be interpreted as South America too (or Central America). :p
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
12
81
I had a friend who gradded top of his class from Harvard premed with a 99 average. He could have gone to any medical school in the world. He chose my school (UBC in Vancouver). Why? Because it isn't the school that makes the student. A smart person who goes to Bonerland State University and works his ass off will be a better doctor than a slacker from Harvard. It's all up to the student.