Sennheiser HD600 headphones, some help?

[vhx]

I am currently looking for some new headphones. My HD555's left ear went out and I'm looking for a new pair. I thought about getting another pair or maybe the HD558's but I wondered about going to the next series HD600. They are quite a bit more expensive but if they last a while I would consider it. One thing that quite annoyed me is I have a wireless USB headset for work ($100 creative headset) and I've heard things I haven't heard on my Sennheisers before??

This may be related. I have read in various places that you'd want an amp since the HD600's are power hungry. I am completely in the dark about this sort of thing as I've never had one. Is it really necessary? I read people suggesting $500 amps to get the most out of this... really? Do I really need to shell out that much to make these perform well?

I currently have an Audigy 2ZS, is it worth upgrading this too? Which would make more of an impact? Should I upgrade and get an amp? I am not really looking to spend a fortune on this. Perhaps the best price/quality ratio I can get.

It's getting a bit more complicated than I wanted for some quality headphones. If anyone can help break it down for me I'd really appreciate it.

 

[mshan]

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/

HD600 will need an amp.

 

[Chapbass]

You'll need an amp, but need a $500 one isn't really true at all IMO.

Right now my setup is Computer -> USB to Fiio E7/E9 combo -> HD650. It sounds excellent.

When at home (i keep my e9 at work) I use USB -> E7 -> HD650. Sounds pretty darn good too, albeit not as loud and clean as the E9. You can tell the amp is struggling a little more, but its definitely not bad by any stretch of the imagination.


Going over to headfi is like going over to AVSforum. TONS of information, but they're damn picky, so don't expect them to sing praises about virtually anything. They will when talking about value, but nothing is the end all be all of products.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

I've got HD650's, and they run off the amp on the Asus Essence ST sound card. Works fine.

HD600's would be fine on the Essence.

 

[uhohs]

if you want them to shine and approach their "top performance", you'll want to amp them well.

 

[JAG87]

I'd say go for HD 595/598. They give you like 90% of the quality of HD600s for far less money, and they don't need an amp.

 

[vhx]

You'll need an amp, but need a $500 one isn't really true at all IMO.

Right now my setup is Computer -> USB to Fiio E7/E9 combo -> HD650. It sounds excellent.

When at home (i keep my e9 at work) I use USB -> E7 -> HD650. Sounds pretty darn good too, albeit not as loud and clean as the E9. You can tell the amp is struggling a little more, but its definitely not bad by any stretch of the imagination.


Going over to headfi is like going over to AVSforum. TONS of information, but they're damn picky, so don't expect them to sing praises about virtually anything. They will when talking about value, but nothing is the end all be all of products.

I'll look into those. However going from USB avoids my sound card does it not? I am not sure if there is any gain/loss from doing this.

Yes, I went to headfi and browsed at existing threads. Them mentioning $500-$1000 amps doesn't help me in the least.

I've got HD650's, and they run off the amp on the Asus Essence ST sound card. Works fine.

HD600's would be fine on the Essence.

Hmmm that's an interesting sound card. A built in headphone amp into the sound card is kind of a solution to both of the issues. I'll consider it. Not sure how it stacks up to Creative cards but I figure with the price it should do well.

I'd say go for HD 595/598. They give you like 90% of the quality of HD600s for far less money, and they don't need an amp.

That's the thing about it as well. I've read that you can mod HD555's to be similar to HD595's by doing the foam mod. In that case I'm just back to square one on what I used before.

 

[drizek]

The hd 600 is a great headphone if you have the right amp. I have the hd 580, basically the same thing, purchased for $150. Nope, can't afford the right amp, but the nuforce udac works pretty well, though I'm not sure id recommend it.

The 595s are easier to drive, but they supposedly sound totally different.

Look at the denon d2000.

I also bought the ue triple.fi 10 IEMs and they sound amazing, better than the 580s in many circumstances(though much worse in others).

 

[Chapbass]

I'll look into those. However going from USB avoids my sound card does it not? I am not sure if there is any gain/loss from doing this.

Yes, I went to headfi and browsed at existing threads. Them mentioning $500-$1000 amps doesn't help me in the least.


Hmmm that's an interesting sound card. A built in headphone amp into the sound card is kind of a solution to both of the issues. I'll consider it. Not sure how it stacks up to Creative cards but I figure with the price it should do well.



That's the thing about it as well. I've read that you can mod HD555's to be similar to HD595's by doing the foam mod. In that case I'm just back to square one on what I used before.

I'd be willing to bet that the DAC in the e7 sounds better than the creative card. Creative isn't exactly known for its sound quality.

 

[darkswordsman17]

OP, I don't have a problem with it, as its a great headphone, but any particular reason you set on the HD600? Just curious.

Yeah, the Audigy 2 never had a stellar DAC and the implementation isn't great either. Plus there was the resampling issue (it always resamples 44.1 to 48 I believe). You can do digital out from it to a DAC though, but personally I'd bypass it if possible. The only Creative card I really feel is worth recommending is the X-Fi Titanium HD (possibly the X-Fi HD USB, but you lose the X-Fi processor chip and it has lower quality DAC and ADC chips), but the Xonar Essence might be a better fit for the HD600. Its an excellent card as well.

Yeah, Head-Fi goes over the top for most people (you'll quickly go from people telling you that you need an amp to you need a $1000 amp and $1000 DAC to make a certain headphone worthwhile). Just don't overthink things and worry too much as there's so many good quality audio products anymore that you almost can't go wrong.

Luckily you've got a lot of great options these days. For an amp, I'd actually recommend looking around for a decent vintage stereo integrated amp as it'd be good for it too.

There's quite a few options for DAC/amps in the $200 range too. The aforementioned sound cards. iBasso, the Fiio setup (somewhere I believe was selling the E7-E9 combo for like $250 or so and I know it was pretty highly praised). NuForce has some nice stuff. Audio-GD. There's a bunch of various DACs, amps, and DAC/amps on eBay, just be sure to check out both the product and the seller beforehand. Pacific Valve sells several of the more popular ones and is located in the US so they might be a bit nicer to deal with. Schiit seems to have gotten popular with their amps, and Meier Audio has a decent rep too.

Lastly, you might look into DIY, especially if you're good with that sort of thing, you can make some exceptionally good amps, DACs, etc. for not too much money. You can often also get people to make you one.

 

[vhx]

What exactly does the amp do, increase volume? What other things?

The hd 600 is a great headphone if you have the right amp. I have the hd 580, basically the same thing, purchased for $150. Nope, can't afford the right amp, but the nuforce udac works pretty well, though I'm not sure id recommend it.

The 595s are easier to drive, but they supposedly sound totally different.

Look at the denon d2000.

I also bought the ue triple.fi 10 IEMs and they sound amazing, better than the 580s in many circumstances(though much worse in others).

I will look at that. Thanks.

I'd be willing to bet that the DAC in the e7 sounds better than the creative card. Creative isn't exactly known for its sound quality.

I have looked at the E7 and it looks compact and has some good reviews on it.

OP, I don't have a problem with it, as its a great headphone, but any particular reason you set on the HD600? Just curious.

Yeah, the Audigy 2 never had a stellar DAC and the implementation isn't great either. Plus there was the resampling issue (it always resamples 44.1 to 48 I believe). You can do digital out from it to a DAC though, but personally I'd bypass it if possible. The only Creative card I really feel is worth recommending is the X-Fi Titanium HD (possibly the X-Fi HD USB, but you lose the X-Fi processor chip and it has lower quality DAC and ADC chips), but the Xonar Essence might be a better fit for the HD600. Its an excellent card as well.

Yeah, Head-Fi goes over the top for most people (you'll quickly go from people telling you that you need an amp to you need a $1000 amp and $1000 DAC to make a certain headphone worthwhile). Just don't overthink things and worry too much as there's so many good quality audio products anymore that you almost can't go wrong.

Luckily you've got a lot of great options these days. For an amp, I'd actually recommend looking around for a decent vintage stereo integrated amp as it'd be good for it too.

There's quite a few options for DAC/amps in the $200 range too. The aforementioned sound cards. iBasso, the Fiio setup (somewhere I believe was selling the E7-E9 combo for like $250 or so and I know it was pretty highly praised). NuForce has some nice stuff. Audio-GD. There's a bunch of various DACs, amps, and DAC/amps on eBay, just be sure to check out both the product and the seller beforehand. Pacific Valve sells several of the more popular ones and is located in the US so they might be a bit nicer to deal with. Schiit seems to have gotten popular with their amps, and Meier Audio has a decent rep too.

Lastly, you might look into DIY, especially if you're good with that sort of thing, you can make some exceptionally good amps, DACs, etc. for not too much money. You can often also get people to make you one.

I'm not really deadset on it, but I've had good experiences with the HD555's and am looking at others in their line is all. Just looking for some new ones that are atleast better than my old ones.

Do you think replacing the Audigy 2ZS with the Xonar would make more of a difference than an amp would? Would you recommend a dedicated amp with the Xonar Essence, even though it has a headphone amp built in? You mentioned E7 and E9 combo, these go together? I figured E9 > E7? What about just the E7 by itself? I can maybe justify E7+E9 or The Xonar but not both at the moment. Which would make the most impact?

Unfortunately I have no idea when it comes to DIY amp creating. Sorry for all the questions, but I appreciate your input.

 

[drizek]

The HD555 is in the same line as the HD 595.

The HD580/HD600/HD650 are their own line, with a different sound signature and a different intended audience.

The HD600 is one of the ones that can actually take advantage of those $1000 amps, whereas the 595 wouldn't really show a difference. On the other hand, out of an mp3 player, the 595s will probably sound better than the 600.

As for what amps do, yes, basically, they increase the volume. The idea is to get one that is strong enough to be able to drive your headphones properly and accurately without ruining the sound. The HD600 is 300ohms, basically as high as standard headphones get, which means it needs more juice than most others.

 

[JAG87]

The HD555 is in the same line as the HD 595.

The HD580/HD600/HD650 are their own line, with a different sound signature and a different intended audience.

The HD600 is one of the ones that can actually take advantage of those $1000 amps, whereas the 595 wouldn't really show a difference. On the other hand, out of an mp3 player, the 595s will probably sound better than the 600.

As for what amps do, yes, basically, they increase the volume. The idea is to get one that is strong enough to be able to drive your headphones properly and accurately without ruining the sound. The HD600 is 300ohms, basically as high as standard headphones get, which means it needs more juice than most others.

I beg to differ.

The 555 is not in the same line as the 595. They have completely different frequency responses. Tons of people are hung on the idea that because they have the same drivers, the foam mod makes them sound like 595s. The fact is there are very few who actually own or listened to both, because anyone who owns 595s would not bother buying and modding 555s, and anyone who owns modded 555s, modded them because they can't afford to buy 595s and then preaches about how they sound like 595s without having any term of comparison.

I've actually listened to all of them (and owned a few of them) the difference between 555 and 595 is remarkable. The difference between 595 and 600s is there, but miniscule (more pronounced at high volumes where the 600s are better at handling distortion). The 650s can't really be compared because they have a different sound signature (which I prefer and am biased towards), but again the difference is marginal when compared to the cost of the headphone itself, plus the rest of the gear you need to listen to a 300 ohm headphone properly.

Since the OP doesn't have a DAC or an AMP but only a sound card, my recommendation is the HD595. If he decides to buy that equipment, then he can go with the 600s/650s. The improvement is there, whether it's worth the money or not is up to him.

My opinion on quality is HD555 = 7/10, HD 595 = 9/10, HD600/650 = 9.5/10, HD800 = I'd imagine 10/10 today for a dynamic headphone if I ever get the pleasure to listen to them.

 

[DirkGently1]

I've got HD650's, and they run off the amp on the Asus Essence ST sound card. Works fine.

HD600's would be fine on the Essence.

Me too. 'Fine' is a huge understatement :biggrin:

 

[darkswordsman17]

What exactly does the amp do, increase volume? What other things?


I will look at that. Thanks.


I have looked at the E7 and it looks compact and has some good reviews on it.

I'm not really deadset on it, but I've had good experiences with the HD555's and am looking at others in their line is all. Just looking for some new ones that are atleast better than my old ones.

Do you think replacing the Audigy 2ZS with the Xonar would make more of a difference than an amp would? Would you recommend a dedicated amp with the Xonar Essence, even though it has a headphone amp built in? You mentioned E7 and E9 combo, these go together? I figured E9 > E7? What about just the E7 by itself? I can maybe justify E7+E9 or The Xonar but not both at the moment. Which would make the most impact?

Unfortunately I have no idea when it comes to DIY amp creating. Sorry for all the questions, but I appreciate your input.

An amp helps keep things in control.

I do think getting a good source is more important than amp, although a big part of that is that most of the products I mentioned have decent ability to drive headphones. Not as good as a good dedicated amp, but ok.

You wouldn't need the E7+E9 and Xonar, so you'll be fine going with either or. I would say you could improve with a dedicated amp out of the Xonar, but its something you could put off for a while. I don't really have much to offer on which would be better, as I haven't heard them both. I'd probably lean a bit more toward the Fiio setup since it should have a stronger amp. The Xonar would likely be the better choice for gaming, and also if you like using headphone virtualization software (like Dolby Headphone that converts say 5.1 channel surround to a sort of binaural effect for headphones).

Looking at the E7, it does have an amp built in, so it'd be usable on its own too if necessary. I mentioned the combo as there was a website that was selling the pair for a special price (I think normally they'd be like $300 and they were selling it for like $225-250). People on Head-Fi spoke pretty highly of the pair as well.

No problem, its kinda daunting, there's so many options to choose from. The good news is that, you'll almost certainly like whatever you go with.

 

[Thump553]

I have had the HD600s for about five years now. Yes, an amp is necessary but you don't have to go crazy buying the most expensive one. As mentioned above do some research on headfi.com. (I'd help more but I'm out of date in my knowledge).

They are very durable but my kids were hard on the headphone cable. Replacements from Senn are pretty cheap-$10 to $15 shipped as I recall.

 

[Anteaus]

Grado SR60

 

[hans030390]

The higher end Xonar cards with headphone amps should power the HD600 just fine. Same goes for the Auzentech cards that have dedicated headphone amps.

You could also look into the X-Fi Titanium HD sound card. Hell, even the X-Fi HD USB external sound card should be able to power the HD600, and they're fairly cheap (and nice!).

There's also the Fiio E7+E9 combo, which I've heard is excellent.

You might also look into some of the Chinese amps on eBay. There's a model from Aune that is apparently excellent and acts as a USB DAC:

http://cgi.ebay.com/AUNE-HIFIDIY-NE...550?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1a65bd7e

 

[Born2bwire]

I'm always leery when it comes to basically saying that to solve deficiencies you need to throw money at the problem. I have had the HD600's, I have the HD650's now and I do agree that they benefit from an amplifier. However, I can't say if that is going to solve your problems with them. It may be just as simple as that you do not like the sound characteristics of the headphones.

What I would suggest perhaps is to try a modestly priced amp (even better if it has a DAC or USB DAC so that you can try to skip the soundcard if you want to do serious music listening) and also get try a different pair of headphones. The amp/DAC combo can run around $200 or $250 I would guess and I would shoot for a merchant that will allow you to demo for a few weeks and return it for a refund. Same with the headphones, just think about what you like better regarding your wireless and see about comments on head-fi that match those. As long as you go with a merchant that will allow you to return for a refund, you'll only be out shipping. That way you can see if it's the need for an amp or different headphones and you can keep one or the other accordingly.

As for getting Chinese amps off of e-bay, definitely find reviews for the exact amp before you buy. Damnable thing about headphone amps is that even a very bad design can sound acceptable or even pretty good.

 

[vhx]

Thanks for everyones opinions. I really appreciate all the information everyone has posted. Basically my goal was to get get some great sound I can appreciate without spending as much money as an entirely new computer.

I did end up getting the HD600's since the deal was too good to pass up. I also ordered the Xonar Essence after careful consideration.

@ Anteaus : I've heard of them before, but I can't stand headphones that sit on the earlobes anymore.

@ Hans: You know, I did look into the X-Fi Titanium HD as well and read extensively between the two. It was a tossup between that and the Essence. The Titanium HD is quite a bit cheaper than the Essence and supports EAX (Although I rarely see EAX these days anyways, is it dead?). So I wasn't sure which to go for. I thought about Titanium HD + the E7, for close to the same price as just the Essence. I am curious on how the built in amp of the Essence compares to the E7... if it's significant I would consider returning the Essence and going with the Titanium HD + E7.

In either case I'm hoping it will be a step up from my Audigy 2ZS.

 

[hans030390]

@ Hans: You know, I did look into the X-Fi Titanium HD as well and read extensively between the two. It was a tossup between that and the Essence. The Titanium HD is quite a bit cheaper than the Essence and supports EAX (Although I rarely see EAX these days anyways, is it dead?). So I wasn't sure which to go for. I thought about Titanium HD + the E7, for close to the same price as just the Essence. I am curious on how the built in amp of the Essence compares to the E7... if it's significant I would consider returning the Essence and going with the Titanium HD + E7.

If I had to guess, I'd say the Xonar Essence will sound better and have a better amp than the Titanium HD or E7. Sounds like you made a good choice.

 

[drizek]

How much did you get them for?

 

[DirkGently1]

.. I'm hoping it will be a step up from my Audigy 2ZS.

You are in for a very pleasing surprise. Set aside some time as you will want to listen to all your favourite songs again!

I'd highly recommend using Foobar2000 as your music player with the wasapi or asio plug-in for the best possible source quality. In the Asus driver control panel you'll want to select 'Hi-Fi' mode to turn off all DSP effects, 'Headphones' under Speaker settings and then choose a level of gain for the headphone amp. 'High', which is the middle setting, should be sufficient.

You'll probably find the headphones will get better over time too, as there is usually a noticable 'breaking in' period. Some people like to leave new headphones playing music while they're out to work for the first few days to speed up the process.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Thanks for everyones opinions. I really appreciate all the information everyone has posted. Basically my goal was to get get some great sound I can appreciate without spending as much money as an entirely new computer.

I did end up getting the HD600's since the deal was too good to pass up. I also ordered the Xonar Essence after careful consideration.

@ Anteaus : I've heard of them before, but I can't stand headphones that sit on the earlobes anymore.

@ Hans: You know, I did look into the X-Fi Titanium HD as well and read extensively between the two. It was a tossup between that and the Essence. The Titanium HD is quite a bit cheaper than the Essence and supports EAX (Although I rarely see EAX these days anyways, is it dead?). So I wasn't sure which to go for. I thought about Titanium HD + the E7, for close to the same price as just the Essence. I am curious on how the built in amp of the Essence compares to the E7... if it's significant I would consider returning the Essence and going with the Titanium HD + E7.

In either case I'm hoping it will be a step up from my Audigy 2ZS.

I think you got mixed up. The E7 is more of a DAC than an amp. It and a sound card are basically providing the same thing. The E9 is an amp. Its what you want to pair with a sound card or the E7.