Senate health overhaul cost put at $1.6 trillion

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

Originally posted by: alphatarget1
I was talking to a grad student from NZ about their healthcare system. Apparently everyone is on UHC, but you can still buy health insurance so you'll be top of the list when it comes to surgeries and what not. Could that work in the US?

This is indeed the case (I am a Kiwi). It's always so weird to me that Americans look at it like a total dichotomy - either health care is private, or it's not. That's all I going to say about this, I've contributed to health care threads on P&N and been attacked relentlessly by the conservatives for something they know very little about. Just wanted to throw my hat into the ring with alphatarget1.

I think almost everyone agrees that the system does not work right now and reform is very urgently needed. Conservatives have legitimate concerns about the costs and bureaucracy with a US federal government run system.

Unlike many other countries in the world, I would say we as Americans put very little faith and trust in our authorities/politicians. I personally think our government sucks and can't do anything right (regardless of party), even though everything sounds great in theory. Look at social security, medicare, and all of that. A more recent example is the nationalization of GM. Look at Barney Frank trying to meddle with GM's operation by keeping a plant in his district open.

But Obama said it wouldn't happen! Riiiiiight.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I'm all for poor people getting insurance but the middle class better not be the group paying for it.

this.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: miniMUNCH

Originally posted by: jpeyton
We can pay for it by slashing our military budget. In half for starters; that's $250 billion/year we can spend on improving the health of our nation's citizens instead of dumping it down DoD money pits.

You realize that 250 billion a year pays for a whole shit ton of salaries, right?

How about we keep the 25% of military funding that actually goes to funding scientific research that you mentioned, and slash the other 75%?

Anybody else think it's funny that conservatives will continually tell you how badly government run programs like health care will be, yet will defend tooth-and-nail the $500,000,000,000/year we spend on a government run military?

Can you even fund an army well enough to protect a country of this size if you cut the budget by 75% AND keep the scientific research going?

Ok, we have the option of making healthcare privatized, and it's something the government shouldn't be focused on anyway because it's a case by case, individual thing. Health Care is almost a consumerist thing. You can shop for different health care providers, etc. Now, granted there's a lot of inflation of costs and the big corporations getting money, and you can start the whole "omg evil large corporation" thing, but how much better could the government do it? Gas prices are terribly high, and people were like omg EXXON is making bajillions. Let's regulate big oil. Ok, how about the government manages our oil supplies and refineries and distribution. How well could they do it? You could have lower prices just like the USPS advertises low prices compared to UPS and FedEx, but how much of your tax dollars go to support USPS because of inefficiencies, and the fact that it simply cannot sustain itself based on postage rates?

Now as for military, that's the worst argument people make when they talk about something poorly managed by the government. Yes, we should crack down on bloated contractor prices, but seriously, the military, whether you like it or not, should be government run. While the government sucks at making it efficient, there's no reason a private corporation should ever manage this (har Starkwood?). This is just a necessary evil. So for many people to complain about the government sucking at managing things and should stay away from health care is one thing, but to compare health care and defense is terrible.

 

[Patranus]

The point is that this is a complete waste of money.
1.6 trillion dollars to insure somewhere in the ballpark of 16 million people for the next 10 years. Considering this is the administration that estimated that unemployment would not go above 8% if congress pushed through the stimulus package I highly doubt that the figure will be below 1.6 trillion and more like 2.6 trillion. It will be interesting to see what number the CBO generates when this is all said and done.

The least expensive plan from Kaiser Permanente with prescription coverage costs $89.00 per month or $1,068 per year or $10,680 for 10 years of coverage. Now, if the goal is to get those same 16 million people insured, simply giving them money to buy coverage from Kaiser would cost roughly $170,880,000,000 or about 10% the cost of the program Obama is pushing.

Now, to insure ALL of the uninsured (both the 16 million Obama wants to insure and the 34 million he is ignoring) that would cost roughly $534,000,000,000.00 or about 33% the cost of the program Obama is pushing.

This of course assumes that the Obama numbers (1.6 trillion dollars) are accurate.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: Patranus
The point is that this is a complete waste of money.
1.6 trillion dollars to insure somewhere in the ballpark of 16 million people for the next 10 years. Considering this is the administration that estimated that unemployment would not go above 8% if congress pushed through the stimulus package I highly doubt that the figure will be below 1.6 trillion and more like 2.6 trillion. It will be interesting to see what number the CBO generates when this is all said and done.

The least expensive plan from Kaiser Permanente with prescription coverage costs $89.00 per month or $1,068 per year or $10,680 for 10 years of coverage. Now, if the goal is to get those same 16 million people insured, simply giving them money to buy coverage from Kaiser would cost roughly $170,880,000,000 or about 10% the cost of the program Obama is pushing.

Now, to insure ALL of the uninsured (both the 16 million Obama wants to insure and the 34 million he is ignoring) that would cost roughly $534,000,000,000.00 or about 33% the cost of the program Obama is pushing.

This of course assumes that the Obama numbers (1.6 trillion dollars) are accurate.

Yes, but how good is this Kaiser program compared to what is proposed? Do you get the same level of coverage?

Do you suppose if we shove more people into the Kaiser system, will average costs decline? (assuming Kaiser can instantly build up an infrastructure to handle 50 million more people)

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Patranus
The point is that this is a complete waste of money.
1.6 trillion dollars to insure somewhere in the ballpark of 16 million people for the next 10 years. Considering this is the administration that estimated that unemployment would not go above 8% if congress pushed through the stimulus package I highly doubt that the figure will be below 1.6 trillion and more like 2.6 trillion. It will be interesting to see what number the CBO generates when this is all said and done.

The least expensive plan from Kaiser Permanente with prescription coverage costs $89.00 per month or $1,068 per year or $10,680 for 10 years of coverage. Now, if the goal is to get those same 16 million people insured, simply giving them money to buy coverage from Kaiser would cost roughly $170,880,000,000 or about 10% the cost of the program Obama is pushing.

Now, to insure ALL of the uninsured (both the 16 million Obama wants to insure and the 34 million he is ignoring) that would cost roughly $534,000,000,000.00 or about 33% the cost of the program Obama is pushing.

This of course assumes that the Obama numbers (1.6 trillion dollars) are accurate.

That is the dumbest comparison I have ever heard in my entire life. You are comparing the PREMIUM cost of Kaiser with the cost of care from Obama's plan.

HEY GUYS PRIVATE INSURANCE IS WAY CHEAPER IF NOBODY EVER USES IT.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: senseamp
Need to cover everyone. There is no need for this incrementalism with the GOP neutered.

That's great and all but who pays for it? Do we increase taxes somewhere or cut back somewhere else?

Increase taxes.

 

[theeedude]

http://www.reuters.com/article.../idUSTRE55H5BR20090618

Report: Health care costs to rise 9 pct in 2010
By TOM MURPHY ? 1 day ago
INDIANAPOLIS (AP) ? Employers who offer health insurance coverage could see a 9 percent cost increase next year, and their workers may face an even bigger hit, according to a report from consulting firm PricewaterhouseCoopers.

Looks like having the most overpriced health care system in the world already is not enough.

 

[Carmen813]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Carmen813

LOOK OUT, CANADA IS GONNA SEND THE TANK!

Seriously though, 500 billion + 100 billion for Iraqistan...when is enough enough.

There is a tremendous amount of waste in the military, but it's mainly due to congress using the DoD as a giant government jobs program, forcing contractors to spread wealth through as many districts as possible and keeping open bases the DoD doesn't want and keep spending on projects it doesn't want.

fixed

Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer

This is indeed the case (I am a Kiwi). It's always so weird to me that Americans look at it like a total dichotomy - either health care is private, or it's not. That's all I going to say about this, I've contributed to health care threads on P&N and been attacked relentlessly by the conservatives for something they know very little about. Just wanted to throw my hat into the ring with alphatarget1.

that's because our pundits are journalism majors and don't understand things like the fact that canada's system isn't the only alternative.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't modify my statements like this in the future, it's disingenuous.

Patranus,
Health care premiums are a fraction of the actual cost of health care. The plan put forth is not "Obama's plan" because as of yet Obama has yet to submit his own legislation to Congress. I know you like to paint all the faults of the government on him, but there's 535 other people who actually are responsible for crafting the legislation.

Bottom line is that something needs to be done. That 1.6 trillion is a drop in the bucket compared to the looming nightmare that is Medicare.

 

[TruePaige]

Patranus you are trolling, pulling out the least expensive plan they make, that covers so little you are better off negotiating a self-pay amount.