Senate GOP torpedoes proposed limits on Bush wiretaps

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: johnnobts
The right loves to blow terrorism out of proportion, it's how they scare people into voting with them. Do you ever wonder why the inhabitants of NYC don't seem to be living in fear and don't vote for the fear mongers? They live with a real threat, unlike the sheeple in middle America who have never seen an Arabs let alone a terrorist.
_______________-

Thousands dead is not blowing terrorism out of proportion. Terrorism is not an idle threat, its not imaginary or illusory. Its not playing on fear to point out reality. As for the inhabitants of NYC not voting for Fear mongers, last time I checked they had a republican mayor and governor, and hillary isn't exactly a dove when it comes to terrorism (though Guiliani would have beaten her for the senate if it hadn't been for his fight with cancer).

BTW: Yes, I've seen an Arab, and speak Arabic and Hebrew, travel to Saudi on a regular basis to visit family.

Terrorism can never destroy america. You can, and are.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: johnnobts
The right loves to blow terrorism out of proportion, it's how they scare people into voting with them. Do you ever wonder why the inhabitants of NYC don't seem to be living in fear and don't vote for the fear mongers? They live with a real threat, unlike the sheeple in middle America who have never seen an Arabs let alone a terrorist.
_______________-

Thousands dead is not blowing terrorism out of proportion. Terrorism is not an idle threat, its not imaginary or illusory. Its not playing on fear to point out reality. As for the inhabitants of NYC not voting for Fear mongers, last time I checked they had a republican mayor and governor, and hillary isn't exactly a dove when it comes to terrorism (though Guiliani would have beaten her for the senate if it hadn't been for his fight with cancer).

BTW: Yes, I've seen an Arab, and speak Arabic and Hebrew, travel to Saudi on a regular basis to visit family.

Terrorism can never destroy america. You can, and are.

Yeah, but see, you're not getting it. The central GOP message which the resident keyboard warriors keep harping on is:

THE TERRORISTS HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS

So, logic would state that if they (Republicans) take away our freedoms, the terrorists won't hate us anymore. Quite simple!

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: johnnobts
The right loves to blow terrorism out of proportion, it's how they scare people into voting with them. Do you ever wonder why the inhabitants of NYC don't seem to be living in fear and don't vote for the fear mongers? They live with a real threat, unlike the sheeple in middle America who have never seen an Arabs let alone a terrorist.
_______________-

Thousands dead is not blowing terrorism out of proportion. Terrorism is not an idle threat, its not imaginary or illusory. Its not playing on fear to point out reality. As for the inhabitants of NYC not voting for Fear mongers, last time I checked they had a republican mayor and governor, and hillary isn't exactly a dove when it comes to terrorism (though Guiliani would have beaten her for the senate if it hadn't been for his fight with cancer).

BTW: Yes, I've seen an Arab, and speak Arabic and Hebrew, travel to Saudi on a regular basis to visit family.

Terrorism can never destroy america. You can, and are.

Yeah, but see, you're not getting it. The central GOP message which the resident keyboard warriors keep harping on is:

THE TERRORISTS HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS

So, logic would state that if they (Republicans) take away our freedoms, the terrorists won't hate us anymore. Quite simple!

Which explains all the terra attacks on Finland, Denmark, Japan, etc.. Oh, and also why they attack places in Jordan, Saudi Arabia, because they're free countries too.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: johnnobts
The right loves to blow terrorism out of proportion, it's how they scare people into voting with them. Do you ever wonder why the inhabitants of NYC don't seem to be living in fear and don't vote for the fear mongers? They live with a real threat, unlike the sheeple in middle America who have never seen an Arabs let alone a terrorist.
_______________-

Thousands dead is not blowing terrorism out of proportion. Terrorism is not an idle threat, its not imaginary or illusory. Its not playing on fear to point out reality. As for the inhabitants of NYC not voting for Fear mongers, last time I checked they had a republican mayor and governor, and hillary isn't exactly a dove when it comes to terrorism (though Guiliani would have beaten her for the senate if it hadn't been for his fight with cancer).

BTW: Yes, I've seen an Arab, and speak Arabic and Hebrew, travel to Saudi on a regular basis to visit family.

WE are the biggest Middle Eastern Terrorist group there is... How many people have WE kill in Iraq -- at least TEN TIMES THE ANOUNT Osama killed????

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Senate GOP torpedoes proposed limits on Bush wiretaps.
Passes bill which legalizes demostic wiretapping program.

Um, so that makes it illegal prior to this legislation. So when do we see charges against Bush?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: xenolith
Again, more irresponsible reporting by the mainstream media. Big surprise.

The program simply gives NSA warrant-less authority to gather signal intelligence of foreign communications with suspected terrorists ties. So that means to you pot heads that are worried about your civil liberties, unless you make/receive overseas calls to/from suspected terrorist phone numbers, emails, etc., you're not being monitored!

You guys complaining here are probably the same people who would scream the loudest, blaming the president for not protecting the American people if another terrorist attack were to occur.

You can use the word "foreign" as many times as you like, this is still domestic wiretapping. It is not domestic ONLY wiretapping, but "foreign communication" implies communication taking place entirely overseas. As for civil liberties that only apply when you talk to certain people, I don't think anything needs to be said about that...

As for that last part, I don't believe that's really true, but even if it was, wouldn't we have every right to do so? I can't think of any time in my job when I would have been in the right demanding unreasonable things to do my job and then doing really crummy work when I didn't get those things...I hardly think we can hold the President to a lower standard. If the only way Bush can do his job is by breaking the law, I think we have every right to complain and demand he resign and be replaced by someone competent.

 

[DealMonkey]

Not only that, based on what we do know about the NSA effort, they are likely processing all data streams domestically in order to home in on potential terrorists. Which means, the NSA is sifting through all voice and data traffic and then using sophisticated software and massive hardware and bandwidth in an attempt to filter out what they want. If this is true, then all of us are being monitored, however unless we do something that catches their attention as potential terrorist activity, then we're likley part of the background noise. My objection is that this is (A) up until today, illegal, (B) contrary to the mission of the NSA, and (C) there is zero oversight, so there is massive potential for abuse.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: straightalker
The slide into Nazism is progressing at a faster pace at the moment because of the fact that if there is a fall election in the USA, the Bush Hunta will loose it's hlod on all three Branches of our Government when the Demoratz take Congress.

Making the complete overthrow of the USA much more difficult for the Bush Hunta the next two years.

Junta

 

[BoberFett]

What on earth? Warrantless wiretaps were ruled unconstitutional already, and no law that congress could pass (short of a constitutional amendment) can change that. Are these morons in congress lobotomized immediately upon being elected?

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: xenolith
I'm commenting on the wording of the report. It's not domestic wiretapping.

The NSA is not monitoring your grandma's emails and phone calls.

They wouldn't nearly have the resources to do so if they wanted to...

You're kidding right?

With your info I can tell where you sit and listen to every word you are saying.

Whatever you say, big guy. :roll:

 

[Aisengard]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Senate GOP torpedoes proposed limits on Bush wiretaps.
Passes bill which legalizes demostic wiretapping program.

Um, so that makes it illegal prior to this legislation. So when do we see charges against Bush?

Yeah, that's the rub. The law will probably be retroactive too. Hooray for unbridled tyranny!

 

[thraashman]

Originally posted by: Aisengard

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Aisengard
Senate GOP torpedoes proposed limits on Bush wiretaps.
Passes bill which legalizes demostic wiretapping program.

Um, so that makes it illegal prior to this legislation. So when do we see charges against Bush?

Yeah, that's the rub. The law will probably be retroactive too. Hooray for unbridled tyranny!

All this crap with the GOP trying their best to destroy everything this country was founded on (except the 2nd amendment, because apparantly that's the most important one) is pissing me off. I think if I ever met Bush in person I don't know if I'd have the willpower to not hit him. Maybe I should just get my message across in another way, do you think the secret service would drop me if I urinated on the President's shoes while he was wearing them?

 

[Harvey]

Verse 2

All the forces of war were compelling,
And blacker than coal in the night (Colin, the Knight),
And the lies that they're telling, they sell in the name of their savior.

And they silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light.
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

And Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?
Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Not only that, based on what we do know about the NSA effort, they are likely processing all data streams domestically in order to home in on potential terrorists. Which means, the NSA is sifting through all voice and data traffic and then using sophisticated software and massive hardware and bandwidth in an attempt to filter out what they want. If this is true, then all of us are being monitored, however unless we do something that catches their attention as potential terrorist activity, then we're likley part of the background noise. My objection is that this is (A) up until today, illegal, (B) contrary to the mission of the NSA, and (C) there is zero oversight, so there is massive potential for abuse.

Bingo!

This is my understanding of how it works also, it would be nice if the ardent defenders of the program would at least try to understand how this works and that it does mean that US citizens are being monitored domestically.

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
What on earth? Warrantless wiretaps were ruled unconstitutional already, and no law that congress could pass (short of a constitutional amendment) can change that. Are these morons in congress lobotomized immediately upon being elected?

Yep, unless they're changing the FISA statute it would still be unconstitutional. Since that's what the USSC cited in their decision.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Internet mining software directed at the site lists you as having mentioned the term "terrorist" and flags you as a "suspected terrorist". That's probably the more day to day version of what happens.

What I'm trying to say is what are the safe guards in place to ensure something like this doesn't occur? If there is such a safe guard who monitors it?

My understanding is that there is no such thing.

Considering the past actions of the government that doesn't exactly make me feel safe or free.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
What is being missed here is the fact that congress can make a law---but its the courts duty to overrule that law when its unconstitutional---we have a constititional right to be secure from this crapola bugging of communications---which is not catching terrorists because they don't communicate that way---but it gives those governmental busybodies new ways to be big brothers to us all.

Why do you think they refuse to charge terrorists and put them in front of a judge and jury. The few that have gone to court are only the ones that are most visible. The government wouldn't have suddenly changed their minds and done that without having an ace up their sleeve.

The rest are at Gitmo or various secret CIA prisons, none inside the US and therefore the law does not apply to them.

However International law does apply including laws against war crimes. People would say that nobody in real power to act on this does because it has no merit. No. It's because the US is the biggest bully in the school yard with the biggest stick.

 

[Aisengard]

If we as a species can't convict Saddam, we have no right trying to convict ANYone.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060914/D8K4J9180.html

Questioning a Kurdish witness Thursday, Saddam said, "I wonder why this man wanted to meet with me, if I am a dictator?"

The judge interrupted: "You were not a dictator. People around you made you (look like) a dictator."

"Thank you," Saddam responded, bowing his head in respect.

Bleeecccchhhh!

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Aisengard
If we as a species can't convict Saddam, we have no right trying to convict ANYone.

And what does that have to do with the Bushwhacko's attempts to get Senate approval to use warrantless wiretaps and other spying on American citizens or torture methods on those they deem to be "enemy combatants?"

We cannot defeat evil by becoming the evil we seek to defeat.

 

[Aisengard]

I was replying to the post above about the trials for terrorists that don't happen.

Probably should have been a new topic, though.