Senate Armed Services Committee Reports Bush Admin Responsible For Torture Abuses.

Harvey

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Oct 9, 1999
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This report by the bipartisan Senate Armed Services Committee was issued jointly by Democratic chairman, Senator Carl Levin of Michigan and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the top Republican on the panel.

Report Blames Rumsfeld for Detainee Abuses

By SCOTT SHANE and MARK MAZZETTI
Published: December 11, 2008

WASHINGTON ? A report released Thursday by leaders of the Senate Armed Services Committee said top Bush administration officials, including Donald H. Rumsfeld, the former defense secretary, bore major responsibility for the abuses committed by American troops in interrogations at Abu Ghraib in Iraq; Guantánamo Bay, Cuba; and other military detention centers.

The report was issued jointly by Senator Carl Levin of Michigan, the Democratic chairman of the panel, and Senator John McCain of Arizona, the top Republican. It represents the most thorough review by Congress to date of the origins of the abuse of prisoners in American military custody, and it explicitly rejects the Bush administration?s contention that tough interrogation methods have helped keep the country and its troops safe.

The report also rejected previous claims by Mr. Rumsfeld and others that Defense Department policies played no role in the harsh treatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 and in other episodes of abuse.

The abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, the report says, ?was not simply the result of a few soldiers acting on their own? but grew out of interrogation policies approved by Mr. Rumsfeld and other top officials, who ?conveyed the message that physical pressures and degradation were appropriate treatment for detainees.?

By the time of the abuses at Abu Ghraib, Mr. Rumsfeld had formally withdrawn approval for use of the harshest techniques, which he authorized in December 2002 and then ruled out a month later. But the report said that those methods, including the use of stress positions and forced nudity, continued to spread through the military detention system, and that their use ?damaged our ability to collect accurate intelligence that could save lives, strengthened the hand of our enemies, and compromised our moral authority.?

Most of the report, the product of an 18-month inquiry and interviews with more than 70 people by committee staff members, remains classified. But the 29-page summary offers the clearest timeline to date linking the acts of Mr. Rumsfeld and other Pentagon officials to abusive treatment in the field.

A spokesman for Mr. Rumsfeld, Keith Urbahn, said a dozen earlier investigations had found no such connection, and he dismissed the report as ?unfounded allegations against those who have served our nation.?

?Because of irresponsible charges by a few individuals in positions of responsibility in Congress, millions of people around the world have been led to believe that the United States condones torture,? Mr. Urbahn said.

Committee staff members said the report was approved by a voice vote without dissent, but only 17 of the committee?s 25 members were present for the vote. Mr. McCain, who was tortured while he was a prisoner of war in North Vietnam, has been an outspoken opponent of harsh interrogation tactics, but some other Republicans have defended such methods as legal and necessary.

Many of the particulars in the summary were made public at hearings the committee held in June and September, including the fact that members of President Bush?s cabinet discussed specific interrogation methods in White House meetings.

The report documents how the military training program called Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape, or SERE, became a crucial source for interrogations as the Bush administration looked for tougher methods after the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The SERE training was devised decades ago to give American military personnel a taste of the treatment they might face if taken prisoner by China, the Soviet Union or other cold war adversaries. ?The techniques were never intended to be used against detainees in U.S. custody,? Mr. Levin said in a statement.

In his statement on Thursday, Mr. McCain called the adoption of SERE methods ?inexcusable.?

The report found that senior Defense Department officials inquired about SERE techniques for prisoner interrogations as early as December 2001, when the war in Afghanistan was weeks old and American troops were just beginning to capture people suspected of being members of the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

In September, the committee released a December 2001 letter from the head of the Joint Personnel Recovery Agency, which runs the SERE program, to a deputy of William J. Haynes II, the Pentagon?s general counsel, saying the agency?s officials ?stand ready to assist? Pentagon efforts at prisoner ?exploitation.?

The committee?s report says little about the Central Intelligence Agency, except to note that that agency also drew on the SERE program for harsh methods it used in secret overseas jails for Qaeda suspects. The C.I.A. has said it used waterboarding, a method of near-drowning previously used in the Navy?s SERE program, on three captured terrorism suspects in 2002 and 2003.

Unlike the military, the C.I.A. is still permitted to use some coercive methods, though the precise rules are classified. The agency has said that it no longer uses waterboarding.

But wait... There's more. This page on Senator Levin's site says:

Levin, McCain Release Executive Summary and Conclusions of Report on Treatment of Detainees in U.S. Custody

WASHINGTON ? Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and Ranking Member John McCain (R-Ariz.) today released the executive summary and conclusions of the Committee?s report of its inquiry into the treatment of detainees in U.S. custody.

A major focus of the Committee?s investigation was the influence of Survival Evasion Resistance and Escape (SERE) training techniques on the interrogation of detainees in U.S. custody. SERE training is designed to teach our soldiers how to resist interrogation by enemies that refuse to follow the Geneva Conventions and international law. During SERE training, U.S. troops --- in a controlled environment with great protections and caution --- are exposed to harsh techniques such as stress positions, forced nudity, use of fear, sleep deprivation, and until recently, the waterboard. The SERE techniques were never intended to be used against detainees in U.S. custody. The Committee?s investigation found, however, that senior officials in the U.S. government decided to use some of these harsh techniques against detainees based on deeply flawed interpretations of U.S. and international law.

The Committee concluded that the authorization of aggressive interrogation techniques by senior officials was both a direct cause of detainee abuse and conveyed the message that it was okay to mistreat and degrade detainees in U.S. custody.

Chairman Levin said, ?SERE training techniques were designed to give our troops a taste of what they might be subjected to if captured by a ruthless, lawless enemy so that they would be better prepared to resist. The techniques were never intended to be used against detainees in U.S. custody.?

Senator McCain said, ?The Committee?s report details the inexcusable link between abusive interrogation techniques used by our enemies who ignored the Geneva Conventions and interrogation policy for detainees in U.S. custody. These policies are wrong and must never be repeated.?

Chairman Levin also said: ?The abuses at Abu Ghraib, GTMO and elsewhere cannot be chalked up to the actions of a few bad apples. Attempts by senior officials to pass the buck to low ranking soldiers while avoiding any responsibility for abuses are unconscionable. The message from top officials was clear; it was acceptable to use degrading and abusive techniques against detainees. Our investigation is an effort to set the record straight on this chapter in our history that has so damaged both America?s standing and our security. America needs to own up to its mistakes so that we can rebuild some of the good will that we have lost.?

In the course of its more than 18-month long investigation, the Committee reviewed hundreds of thousands of documents and conducted extensive interviews with more than 70 individuals.

Senator Levin's page includes a link to the unclassified Executive Summary and Conclusions of the report. It contains more than will fit in this post, but Conclusion 1 is a good place to start:

Senate Armed Services Committee Conclusions

Conclusion 1:
On February 7, 2002, President George W. Bush made a written determination that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, which would have afforded minimum standards for humane treatment, did not apply to al Qaeda or Taliban detainees. Following the President?s determination, techniques such as waterboarding, nudity, and stress positions, used in SERE training to simulate tactics used by enemies that refuse to follow the Geneva Conventions, were authorized for use in interrogations of detainees in U.S. custody.

If you still wonder why I call George W. Bush the Traitor In Chief, this is one of many reasons. I hope they push this to prosecute everyone involved in this sad, tragic black stain on our once proud, once honorable nation. :(
 

vhx

Golden Member
Jul 19, 2006
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I'm pretty sure we all knew this. Unfortunately, nothing will ever be done because no one else really cares about what doesn't affect them anymore. That reason plus no one seems to have the balls to go after the Bush Administration, or because it'd be a waste of time as Bush would just pardon everyone anyways.
 

fallout man

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Nov 20, 2007
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Harvey
I hope they push this to prosecute everyone involved in this sad, tragic black stain on our once proud, once honorable nation.

Hopefully the Hague comes a calling

Oh please. They wouldn't be able to prosecute a stale cheese vendor without US help these days.

I hope that Obama has the HUGE BIG BALLS his supporters (including myself) were hoping for, and will facilitate accountability for the past eight years of pure cluster-fuck.

I don't expect a GW Bush criminal case. I don't think it will make me feel any better about the last eight years of the rape upon what the United States stands for and represents.

What I would like to see is the persecution, prosecution, and conviction of every single little two-bit motherfucker involved in the Bush team who broke laws. It will be sweeter to watch Ol' Walker see his croneys heading off to the slammer and not being able to do anything about it. It will be a delicious hell for someone who disregarded the public's interest (and countless lives) to satisfy the interest of his closest circles.

It's so unlikely that this parasite of a human being is held truly accountable, that I'm personally willing to concede the living punishment of his brief "success" of making friends successful come un-done by virtue of his buddies coming under indictment.

As far as the man himself, he will have to answer to someone who made his own laws, a very long time ago. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the Pearly Gates when GW spawns at the entrance.
 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
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I almost read the article. Then I saw you quote your crappy song again at the end and realized you were just looking for attention. Sad.
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: fallout man
I don't expect a GW Bush criminal case. I don't think it will make me feel any better about the last eight years of the rape upon what the United States stands for and represents.

only the last eight years ? according to dirty-lib revisionist history, the US has ALWAYS been vile and criminal. they violated this sweet virgin earth from the moment the first
fundamentalist white male pilgrim touched down - or haven't you been keeping up with the rich ideas spewed by our fashionista-professors ? tsk tsk.

i appreciate bush and co. would have countenanced the idea to apply all necessary means against these roaches. i gather the only reasonable counterpoint is the possibility an
innocent person would be made victim by these procedures, but this same criticism would render null-and-void the practice of all social, governmental, and personal initiatives.
All good intentions, large and insignificant, produce casualties. Bravo to bush for having the anger not to suffer these animals, just destroy them.

 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: cyclohexane
what is there to report, I thought this was common knowledge?

exactly, like so many urban myths and popular misconceptions.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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I'd be in favor of hanging Bush and every one of his cohorts who supported this business, but Obama's aides have suggested that Obama is more interested in something like a Truth and Reconciliation Commission, without prosecutions. What galls me is that if the positions had been reversed the Republicans would have ginned up the entire Justice Department to prosecute Dems. Dems are such fucking wusses.....

-Robert
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: Sinsear
I almost read the article. Then I saw you quote your crappy song again at the end and realized you were just looking for attention. Sad.

:thumbsup:
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Sadly, its going to be difficult to get a domestic US trial of the people in the GWB administration for international war crimes, but justice at the Hague becomes more probable if the international community starts to demand it as down payment for bailing the US out of the various messes we are in.

Right now, much of the left over evidence is safely locked away in various cabinet level departments basically controlled by GWB&co for only 38 more days. What the armed services committee knows now is somewhat sketchy at best, but once the files are opened, it will probably be enough to gag maggots. And like Nixon, even the GOP may join in and lead the charge to see GWB&co is properly prosecuted when
the truth finally comes out.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Sadly, its going to be difficult to get a domestic US trial of the people in the GWB administration for international war crimes, but justice at the Hague becomes more probable if the international community starts to demand it as down payment for bailing the US out of the various messes we are in.

Right now, much of the left over evidence is safely locked away in various cabinet level departments basically controlled by GWB&co for only 38 more days. What the armed services committee knows now is somewhat sketchy at best, but once the files are opened, it will probably be enough to gag maggots. And like Nixon, even the GOP may join in and lead the charge to see GWB&co is properly prosecuted when
the truth finally comes out.

Congress is going to wail and whine, but when push comes to shove they are too wussy to do anything. All the DEMS ever do is bend over for the Republican Right Wing. I think they like the sex....

And Obama is a forgive and forget Centrist, not the rabid lefty the Republican Right likes to depict.

-Robert
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
71,833
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Originally posted by: syzygy
Originally posted by: fallout man
I don't expect a GW Bush criminal case. I don't think it will make me feel any better about the last eight years of the rape upon what the United States stands for and represents.

only the last eight years ? according to dirty-lib revisionist history, the US has ALWAYS been vile and criminal. they violated this sweet virgin earth from the moment the first
fundamentalist white male pilgrim touched down - or haven't you been keeping up with the rich ideas spewed by our fashionista-professors ? tsk tsk.

i appreciate bush and co. would have countenanced the idea to apply all necessary means against these roaches. i gather the only reasonable counterpoint is the possibility an
innocent person would be made victim by these procedures, but this same criticism would render null-and-void the practice of all social, governmental, and personal initiatives.
All good intentions, large and insignificant, produce casualties. Bravo to bush for having the anger not to suffer these animals, just destroy them.

What a load of crap. Not "all social, governmental, and personal initiatives" are war crimes. What the Bushies committed are war crimes and ought to be treated as such. The majority of "animals" Bush had held and tortured at Gitmo are now free because they were not any kind of threat and committed no crimes. Bush and his stooges are a gang of murderous sadists and you seem to like that.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
71,833
31,850
136
Originally posted by: chess9
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Sadly, its going to be difficult to get a domestic US trial of the people in the GWB administration for international war crimes, but justice at the Hague becomes more probable if the international community starts to demand it as down payment for bailing the US out of the various messes we are in.

Right now, much of the left over evidence is safely locked away in various cabinet level departments basically controlled by GWB&co for only 38 more days. What the armed services committee knows now is somewhat sketchy at best, but once the files are opened, it will probably be enough to gag maggots. And like Nixon, even the GOP may join in and lead the charge to see GWB&co is properly prosecuted when
the truth finally comes out.

Congress is going to wail and whine, but when push comes to shove they are too wussy to do anything. All the DEMS ever do is bend over for the Republican Right Wing. I think they like the sex....

And Obama is a forgive and forget Centrist, not the rabid lefty the Republican Right likes to depict.

-Robert

This is true. The great failing of the American system of the last half century is not that we have imperial minded presidents, we've often had those, it's that Congress has become too craven to exercise its Constitutional duties in the face of presidential misconduct and crimes.
 

syzygy

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: ironwing
Originally posted by: syzygy
Originally posted by: fallout man
I don't expect a GW Bush criminal case. I don't think it will make me feel any better about the last eight years of the rape upon what the United States stands for and represents.

only the last eight years ? according to dirty-lib revisionist history, the US has ALWAYS been vile and criminal. they violated this sweet virgin earth from the moment the first
fundamentalist white male pilgrim touched down - or haven't you been keeping up with the rich ideas spewed by our fashionista-professors ? tsk tsk.

i appreciate bush and co. would have countenanced the idea to apply all necessary means against these roaches. i gather the only reasonable counterpoint is the possibility an
innocent person would be made victim by these procedures, but this same criticism would render null-and-void the practice of all social, governmental, and personal initiatives.
All good intentions, large and insignificant, produce casualties. Bravo to bush for having the anger not to suffer these animals, just destroy them.

What a load of crap. Not "all social, governmental, and personal initiatives" are war crimes.

that is the point.

An example: look at our now dismantled welfare state. look at the social destruction wrought in unwanted
pregnancies, crime, dependence, failures in education, etc. NONE of that was intended by the liberals
who created the idea, yet all that happened.

Another example - and this is a bipatisan one - is our current mania with bailouts. Pols from both sides are
dripping with superhero intentions, yet the Market responded exactly as it was designed to, better than nature.
All this gov't intervention bodes ill in the long term, and doesn't seem to be doing anything in the short.

Bush was working off momentum built against Iraq. He didn't invent Saddam. And he could not trust the UN
to find their teeth.

The drivel about war-crimes is lib-fantasy, worse than fiction, born out of the intentional misrepresentation
of int'l law.

 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,092
53,438
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Originally posted by: syzygy

that is the point.

An example: look at our now dismantled welfare state. look at the social destruction wrought in unwanted
pregnancies, crime, dependence, failures in education, etc. NONE of that was intended by the liberals
who created the idea, yet all that happened.

Another example - and this is a bipatisan one - is our current mania with bailouts. Pols from both sides are
dripping with superhero intentions, yet the Market responded exactly as it was designed to, better than nature.
All this gov't intervention bodes ill in the long term, and doesn't seem to be doing anything in the short.

Bush was working off momentum built against Iraq. He didn't invent Saddam. And he could not trust the UN
to find their teeth.

The drivel about war-crimes is lib-fantasy, worse than fiction, born out of the intentional misrepresentation
of int'l law.

Wait a minute, are you trying to say that social safety nets cause unwanted pregnancy, crime, and a failure of education? *sigh*. Turn off the Rush Limbaugh.

As for your whole 'lib-fantasy' shit, give me a break. The Secretary General of the UN himself says that the invasion of Iraq was a violation of the UN charter. That's pretty decent evidence of a violation of international law. I guess the SecGen is just intentionally misrepresenting international law too.

I'm not exactly sure why I'm trying to argue this with you, as it appears you're totally off the deep end, but I'm going to hope for a reasoned explanation of why it's not a violation.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
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Originally posted by: cyclohexane

what is there to report, I thought this was common knowledge?

Documentation of these crimes from the Senate Armed Services Committee > "common knowledge."

Originally posted by: syzygy

exactly, like so many urban myths and popular misconceptions.

This report documents who these criminals are and the crimes they've committed. You've got the links. If you still think they're "urban myths" or "popular misconceptions," We'll be waiting to see if you can disprove the charges in the Senate Armed Services Committee's report.
.
.
< crickets >

Originally posted by: Sinsear

I almost read the article. Then I saw you quote your crappy song again at the end and realized you were just looking for attention. Sad.

I wrote the song a couple of years ago, long before this report was published. They're included as commentary. The sad part about them is that they were so accurate.

I edited the OP to remove the lyrics, but if including them in my post is the only reason you didn't read the article or actual Executive Summary of the Committee's report, you should look for a hot deal on some new priorities. Yours are shot. :roll:

Originally posted by: ironwing

Bush is a war criminal. Hang him.

Rather than closing Guantanamo, I would rather see it "re-purposed" to house Bush and his gang of criminals for the rest of their sorry lives.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
15,438
7,960
136
Karl Rove, your zombies are still up and about. Please let them go. Please give them their minds back. It's over. They're not needed any more. They, like you, are an anachronistic blight on the Country. Begone.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
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Here is the wall that you will never be able to climb, Harvey

The Military Commissions Act defines certain prohibitions of Common Article 3 for United States law, and it reaffirms and reinforces the authority of the President to interpret the meaning and application of the Geneva Conventions.
------------------------------------------------------------------

We are a nation of Laws and rules. Pretty much guarantees that anyone with the power to make a law or rule can do what they feel they are compelled to do.

You can express outrage, but that is all you can do, unless you are willing to live outside the confines of these Laws and rules we have.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
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Originally posted by: Ozoned
Here is the wall that you will never be able to climb, Harvey

The Military Commissions Act defines certain prohibitions of Common Article 3 for United States law, and it reaffirms and reinforces the authority of the President to interpret the meaning and application of the Geneva Conventions.
------------------------------------------------------------------

We are a nation of Laws and rules. Pretty much guarantees that anyone with the power to make a law or rule can do what they feel they are compelled to do.

You can express outrage, but that is all you can do, unless you are willing to live outside the confines of these Laws and rules we have.

That depends on a lot of other legalities, and an American act doesn't apply to the International Court at the Hague.

If we, as a people, don't hold our leaders accountable for their crimes, our entire Constitution is meaningless to our own citizens, and that "beacon of democracy" we promote to the world is a sham. :(
 

Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
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Originally posted by: Harvey
tragic black stain on our once proud, once honorable nation. :(

As opposed to the white stain Clinton left in the Oval Office. :p