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Sen. Warren proposes to cancel student loan debt

Blackjack200

Blackjack200

Lifer
- Up to $50k student loan forgiveness for people making under $100k.
- Free public college
- Additional investments in Pell Grants and historical black colleges and universities.

Would cancel student loan debt for 95% of Americans at a "cost" of $1.25 trillion over 10 years.

Doesn't quite go far enough - it should also end federal backing of student loans - but this seems like the best student loan platform out there right now, no? I kind of wrote her off after the DNA test, but this is not the first time she's surprised me since then.
 
Blackjack200 said:
- Up to $50k student loan forgiveness for people making under $100k.
- Free public college
- Additional investments in Pell Grants and historical black colleges and universities.

Would cancel student loan debt for 95% of Americans at a "cost" of $1.25 trillion over 10 years.

Doesn't quite go far enough - it should also end federal backing of student loans - but this seems like the best student loan platform out there right now, no? I kind of wrote her off after the DNA test, but this is not the first time she's surprised me since then.
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I would prefer to change it so we just cut everyone a check who makes below a certain threshold. Presumably the idea for student loan forgiveness is that excessive debt has crippled the middle class on down from being able to participate fully in society. I don't see why we should privilege student debt as opposed to other types of debt people might hold, especially considering student debt is more heavily held by the middle/upper middle class than the poor.
 
fskimospy said:
I would prefer to change it so we just cut everyone a check who makes below a certain threshold. Presumably the idea for student loan forgiveness is that excessive debt has crippled the middle class on down from being able to participate fully in society. I don't see why we should privilege student debt as opposed to other types of debt people might hold, especially considering student debt is more heavily held by the middle/upper middle class than the poor.
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The most obvious reason is that student loan debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
 
As a statement of valuing education, I think it works.

I'm also just glad she's leading the field on so many policies so that conversations with other candidates have to account for all of her plans she's laid out.

She's proving to be exceptional.
 
Blackjack200 said:
The most obvious reason is that student loan debt cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
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Sure, but in the end you're still giving a bunch of money to middle and upper middle class people and substantially less per person in most cases to the truly poor. Not my preferred solution. I don't see why we should free someone with a valuable degree from their debt trap while ignoring the debt traps that the poor are often caught in.

Yes though, overall I think it's a good start! This should definitely be coupled with an end to student loans entirely so this doesn't happen again.
 
I'm skeptical Warren will win the primary but she is churning out good ideas for the other Dems to latch onto.
 
fskimospy said:
Sure, but in the end you're still giving a bunch of money to middle and upper middle class people and substantially less per person in most cases to the truly poor. Not my preferred solution. I don't see why we should free someone with a valuable degree from their debt trap while ignoring the debt traps that the poor are often caught in.

Yes though, overall I think it's a good start! This should definitely be coupled with an end to student loans entirely so this doesn't happen again.
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My own theory is that you solve most of the problem by treating it like consumer debt - allow it to be discharged in bankruptcy and take away the federal guarantees.
 
While we're at it, let's cancel car loans, home mortgages, etc, just make everything people can't afford, FREE. And unicorns for everyone.

No, the worst thing possible is to encourage slackers to go to school who aren't going to generate enough value in society to pay back the debt accumulated doing so, then everyone else has to pay for it.

The current problem is not lack of people getting a higher education, it's that those who do, are not learning the skills society needs and shouldn't have gone through higher education at all if they couldn't afford to do so.
 
Blackjack200 said:
- Up to $50k student loan forgiveness for people making under $100k.
- Free public college
- Additional investments in Pell Grants and historical black colleges and universities.

Would cancel student loan debt for 95% of Americans at a "cost" of $1.25 trillion over 10 years.

Doesn't quite go far enough - it should also end federal backing of student loans - but this seems like the best student loan platform out there right now, no? I kind of wrote her off after the DNA test, but this is not the first time she's surprised me since then.
Click to expand...

"Congrats! You fucked up in life. Here is a free bailout for being so fucking stupid and getting a 23463 year degree in gender studies! Surprise! You're going to be a Starbucks Barista for life"

I agree with you in the sense of ending federal backing of loans though.
 
Blackjack200 said:
My own theory is that you solve most of the problem by treating it like consumer debt - allow it to be discharged in bankruptcy and take away the federal guarantees.
Click to expand...

Sure, but that will effectively end student loans for most people. Not a ton of banks want to give an 18 year old with no work or credit history tens of thousands of dollars in unsecured debt in anything approaching affordable terms.

I think student loans are a fundamentally unsound way to finance education and in any proposal where we're going to forgive some of them I think we need to acknowledge this and make sure we're not just forgiving it again in the future.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
"Congrats! You fucked up in life. Here is a free bailout for being so fucking stupid and getting a 23463 year degree in gender studies! Surprise! You're going to be a Starbucks Barista for life"

I agree with you in the sense of ending federal backing of loans though.
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Overall some sort of student loan forgiveness seems like a smart move to me. I've never understood why if you fuck up and take out an ill-advised business loan when you're 35 and it fails you're allowed to start over but if you fuck up and take out an ill-advised student loan when you're 18 you're screwed for life.

From an economic and public policy standpoint it makes little sense to create a system where people make high stakes financial decisions at the age of 18 that, if made poorly create lifelong financial burdens.
 
so if you are not an idiot and got a good degree and job and worked 2 or 3 jobs while going to school, you just get to pay for everyone elses poor decisions?
I think it should be treated the same as any other debt, which people got into by making poor decisions.

Make college 100% tax refundable up to 20k per year/ full time student, a cap so you don't encourage people to go to the most expensive school for no reason. end the federal guarantees, more support for trade and community education. this should encourage students and parents to choose schools at or close to the cap, encourage them to attend trade schools or community colleges for at least the first year.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
"Congrats! You fucked up in life. Here is a free bailout for being so fucking stupid and getting a 23463 year degree in gender studies! Surprise! You're going to be a Starbucks Barista for life"

I agree with you in the sense of ending federal backing of loans though.
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You sure that wasn't the rant you gave big banks and brokerage firms back in 2007??
 
fskimospy said:
Overall some sort of student loan forgiveness seems like a smart move to me. I've never understood why if you fuck up and take out an ill-advised business loan when you're 35 and it fails you're allowed to start over but if you fuck up and take out an ill-advised student loan when you're 18 you're screwed for life.

From an economic and public policy standpoint it makes little sense to create a system where people make high stakes financial decisions at the age of 18 that, if made poorly create lifelong financial burdens.
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Because unlike those student loans - the business that is investing in you will do calculations to determine if you're worth the risk or not.

You know, asking simple questions like "What degree are you planning to major in?" would be something any loaning bank would ask if they had half a brain.

On top of that, they would be more likely to give loans to people that DO have assets - instead of our fucking retarded student loans that give loans based on people that DONT have assets. It makes zero sense whatsoever to basic risk 101. It's like an insurance company asking for a pool of the dumbest and poorest folks and then telling folks of the smartest and wealthiest that they can't apply.

Honestly I have higher standards for people that are 18 - but if that isn't enough - parents have to provide their financial figures to the loan office. That should be a clear indicator for parents to raise red flags and ask questions as well.
 
Count me amongst those skeptical Democrats who is unsure how we can pay for this and pay for healthcare reform AND a Green New Deal in the same 10 year timeframe.

My personal priorities:

1) Healthcare (shoring up Obamacare with a transition to some form of single-payer/Medicare for all)

2) *Some* aspects of the Green New Deal (start with ending all federal subsidies for coal, petroleum, LNG, ethanol and reinvest in solar, wind, electric grid, water security and electric car infrastructure)

3) Bunch of other stuff that is deficit neutral or cuts overall spending

.
.
.

n) Way down here is student loan forgiveness
 
I mean, at what point can everyone agree that there have to be repercussions for your actions?

Most seem to agree that at 21 you are responsible for drinking and driving, so 18 isn't okay, but 21 is?
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
Because unlike those student loans - the business that is investing in you will do calculations to determine if you're worth the risk or not.

You know, asking simple questions like "What degree are you planning to major in?" would be something any loaning bank would ask if they had half a brain.
Click to expand...

Unsecured loans to people with no credit or work history are going to have an astronomical APR regardless.

On top of that, they would be more likely to give loans to people that DO have assets - instead of our fucking retarded student loans that give loans based on people that DONT have assets. It makes zero sense whatsoever to basic risk 101. It's like an insurance company asking for a pool of the dumbest and poorest folks and then telling folks of the smartest and wealthiest that they can't apply.
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This seems like a really bad idea from a public policy perspective too. We want people of superior ability in our most demanding professions with the highest educational requirements. Your plan would substitute those with wealthy parents for those with ability. That's how you end up with morons like Jared Kushner running things.

Honestly I have higher standards for people that are 18 - but if that isn't enough - parents have to provide their financial figures to the loan office. That should be a clear indicator for parents to raise red flags and ask questions as well.
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You think it is wise public policy for people to make financial decisions at the age of 18 that could saddle them with life crushing debt for the rest of their lives? Can you explain why you think this is a good idea?

A far better plan is to go back to the old way of publicly financing higher education. If you have the ability then you go as far as your ability can take you.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
I mean, at what point can everyone agree that there have to be repercussions for your actions?

Most seem to agree that at 21 you are responsible for drinking and driving, so 18 isn't okay, but 21 is?
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It would take a lot of convincing for me to think there is ANY age where it is smart public policy to saddle someone with lifelong, undischargeable debt based on a single financial decision.

Life isn't a morality play, this is all about what's smart policy and what is not. There is little to be gained by society by having lenders endlessly bleeding people for interest payments on loans they can never repay.
 
I would only be okay with cancelling out someone's student debt if they obtain a degree that is useful, like a STEM degree. For those that went for the easy liberal arts degree just so they can party at college? Fuck no. Also, have a requirement that the family must not make more than a certain amount of money per year so it helps those who actually need it, not someone who's parents make a million dollars every year.
 
mindless1 said:
While we're at it, let's cancel car loans, home mortgages, etc, just make everything people can't afford, FREE. And unicorns for everyone.
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I don't agree with her proposal and I doubt all of her supporters (I am not one) will but no need to go all strawman ffs...

I already went to school and my debts are paid off. Had it been free I'd have probably treated it like free though I do think it should be as close to free as possible for those who truly can't afford a higher education.

As for forgiveness of existing student loans, I might go for some sort of reduction of the debt in bankruptcy. I'd also go for some sort of reduction of that debt during tax season. If going to college landed you a job that makes you money and allows you to be a good little tax payer why not a $XK a year credit that goes directly to reducing your loan balance. There's more than one way to skin a great big fat person ~ buffalo bill
 
fskimospy said:
Unsecured loans to people with no credit or work history are going to have an astronomical APR regardless.



This seems like a really bad idea from a public policy perspective too. We want people of superior ability in our most demanding professions with the highest educational requirements. Your plan would substitute those with wealthy parents for those with ability. That's how you end up with morons like Jared Kushner running things.
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No, what I'm stating is that with anything in life - be it insurance pools, healthcare pools, banking loans, etc... You have a POOL of risk. You want a DIVERSIFIED pool.

People with higher risk, pay higher APR. People with lower risk pay lower APR. Regardless, you want an overall well rounded pool to hedge your bets. Our federal loans program is basically asking for the most riskiest pool - BUT DISMISMISSING the least riskiest. That makes ZERO sense.

Face facts: There are plenty of middle-class and upper-middle class families where the parents are stupid as shit - they don't save for their kids college fund, but for some reason the parent's stupid decisions should be a determining factor as to what loans the federal government will give them? That makes zero sense.


You think it is wise public policy for people to make financial decisions at the age of 18 that could saddle them with life crushing debt for the rest of their lives? Can you explain why you think this is a good idea?

A far better plan is to go back to the old way of publicly financing higher education. If you have the ability then you go as far as your ability can take you.
Click to expand...

See my other post related to drinking. You guys really need some consistency. 18 is acceptable to understand the complications of sex, pregnancy, having a baby, etc...

21 is acceptable for drinking (and driving). But not understanding paying debt isn't acceptable for 18? If so what is appropriate age? At a certain point, you need to fucking understand that stupidity isn't an excuse. You can't just keep citing that. You don't cite that with drinking and driving do you? So why would a loan be any different?
 
fskimospy said:
It would take a lot of convincing for me to think there is ANY age where it is smart public policy to saddle someone with lifelong, undischargeable debt based on a single financial decision.

Life isn't a morality play, this is all about what's smart policy and what is not. There is little to be gained by society by having lenders endlessly bleeding people for interest payments on loans they can never repay.
Click to expand...

That's fine, but then what is the alternative? The answer is ending the federal guarantee.

Oh no! Not everyone can go to college then. The horror!

At the same time, tuition costs would drop FUCKING FAST.
 
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