News Sen Ron Johnson who is running for re-election still claims Jan 6 was not an armed insurrection

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,708
37,841
136
It appears we have a disagreement on what an armed insurrection is.
How many shots were fired and by who?
How many firearms were confiscated at the event?
How many members of congress were directly confronted?
Why were the insurrectionists taking selfies and posting them on social media?
1) Shots were fired by law enforcement.

2) Firearms were not confiscated at the event, but subsequent legal proceedings have confirmed that numerous insurrectionists brought guns into the capitol during their attack, not to mention tons of other weapons they had and used against law enforcement when the insurrectionists tried to kill the vice president and members of Congress. I am sure you agree that it doesn't matter if they were confiscated at the time, only that the insurrectionists brought firearms into the capitol. Agree?
Here is one example of many: https://www.justice.gov/opa/page/file/1356111/download

3) They weren't confronted because police fought off the insurrection long enough for them to escape and/or hide from the assault. Why would the fact that the insurrection failed matter as to if it were an insurrection or not?

4) They are stupid.

I stand by my opinion, it was a riot. There was no consolidated effort to achieve a goal. There were no defined operational parameters, there was no clear organization.
I've said it again and again, my boy scout troop could have planed and executed a far more successful operation. This was a pack of fired up idiots that once again prove my theory that as the number of people in an angry group increases, the average IQ decreases.

Stupid people do stupid things, this is axiomatic. It's so fundamental to the human condition that we don't address the issue, we simply make laws to try and control the idiots.
The people who actually engaged in the insurrection disagree with you - we have documented proof that their goal was to capture and/or kill members of Congress to stop the peaceful transfer of power. I mean there are literally voluminous legal documents from the various cases that show the insurrectionists had a very clear plan. Are you saying the court documents are wrong?

For example: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/04/us/politics/oath-keepers-rhodes-trial-texts.html

Finally, and most importantly, forget everything else we're saying here - you would agree that an armed attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power is a coup attempt, right? (by the way this is a trap, if you agree to this you will be eventually forced to agree it was a coup attempt)
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,708
37,841
136
This is one of the scariest things. I don't think @Greenman is an insurrectionist and I don't think he wants a coup. I do think that the next time the GOP tries a coup, and they will try again, he will excuse it or come up with some reason why it wasn't really a coup.

EDIT: Had the coup succeeded, meaning Pence threw out valid votes to make the House install Trump for a second term, conservatives would have said 'there was a dispute about the vote and the system worked to resolve it'. They would not admit they had just ended democracy in the US, they would claim it was an entirely proper result.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
32,066
21,143
136
It appears we have a disagreement on what an armed insurrection is.
How many shots were fired and by who?
How many firearms were confiscated at the event?
How many members of congress were directly confronted?
Why were the insurrectionists taking selfies and posting them on social media?

I stand by my opinion, it was a riot. There was no consolidated effort to achieve a goal. There were no defined operational parameters, there was no clear organization.
I've said it again and again, my boy scout troop could have planed and executed a far more successful operation. This was a pack of fired up idiots that once again prove my theory that as the number of people in an angry group increases, the average IQ decreases.

Stupid people do stupid things, this is axiomatic. It's so fundamental to the human condition that we don't address the issue, we simply make laws to try and control the idiots.
Let's assume your point has any validity for the sake of my question.

Why does the presence of "BLM types" all of a sudden make it a problem?
 

eelw

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 1999
7,582
2,824
136
It appears we have a disagreement on what an armed insurrection is.
Removing insurrection for the moment, why is armed only a firearm? If I attacked you with a paper clip and jabbed you in the eye with it, you consider this assault less of an assault because I wasn’t “armed”?

How many shots were fired and by who?
So discount the over 150 cops injured because they weren’t shot???

How many firearms were confiscated at the event?
Don’t have number of guns, but caches of guns were found in cars parked near the capitol


How many members of congress were directly confronted?
Zero because police did their job. So only if they caught Pelosi this insurrection is less of one because no congress critters were hurt?

Why were the insurrectionists taking selfies and posting them on social media?
Because they are delusional and thought what they were doing is right and patriotic.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,708
37,841
136
@Greenman's next defense now that multiple people have posted evidence guns were present at the coup attempt.


"Well, the attendees didn't have guns with the required caliber to have an insurrection"
Participants in the insurrection are literally on trial right now for seditious conspiracy, which is defined as follows:


If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof
@Greenman if people who attacked the capitol on 1/6 are convicted of seditious conspiracy would you consider that to be an insurrection?
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,423
1,416
126
It appears we have a disagreement on what an armed insurrection is.
How many shots were fired and by who?
How many firearms were confiscated at the event?
How many members of congress were directly confronted?
Why were the insurrectionists taking selfies and posting them on social media?

I stand by my opinion, it was a riot. There was no consolidated effort to achieve a goal. There were no defined operational parameters, there was no clear organization.
I've said it again and again, my boy scout troop could have planed and executed a far more successful operation. This was a pack of fired up idiots that once again prove my theory that as the number of people in an angry group increases, the average IQ decreases.

Stupid people do stupid things, this is axiomatic. It's so fundamental to the human condition that we don't address the issue, we simply make laws to try and control the idiots.
Jesus Christ, if this post was made the morning of Jan. 7 maybe I'd understand this level of ignorance, but what the fuck man.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,708
37,841
136
Jesus Christ, if this post was made the morning of Jan. 7 maybe I'd understand this level of ignorance, but what the fuck man.
To be fair conservative media has relentlessly pushed the idea that 1/6 wasn’t a big deal.

Although it’s amusing how in the immediate aftermath of the insurrection when everyone agreed it was bad right wing media said liberals had done it and secretly framed conservatives. Then when so much evidence came out that it being conservatives was undeniable they changed their minds and decided the insurrection was fine, really.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,007
4,344
136
It appears we have a disagreement on what an armed insurrection is.
How many shots were fired and by who?
How many firearms were confiscated at the event?
How many members of congress were directly confronted?
Why were the insurrectionists taking selfies and posting them on social media?

I stand by my opinion, it was a riot. There was no consolidated effort to achieve a goal. There were no defined operational parameters, there was no clear organization.
I've said it again and again, my boy scout troop could have planed and executed a far more successful operation. This was a pack of fired up idiots that once again prove my theory that as the number of people in an angry group increases, the average IQ decreases.

Stupid people do stupid things, this is axiomatic. It's so fundamental to the human condition that we don't address the issue, we simply make laws to try and control the idiots.

Damn, you really are an irredeemable Trump dick-sucker, aren't you? Only weapons are guns?

AGAIN....come to my house in Hartwell, GA and I'll gladly show you that guns aren't the only weapon that exists....you fucking coward.

I'll show you how much a "non-weapon" can beat you to a bloody pulp and no guns necessary.....only demonstrating, btw...... ;)
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
6,000
4,733
146
To be fair conservative media has relentlessly pushed the idea that 1/6 wasn’t a big deal.

Although it’s amusing how in the immediate aftermath of the insurrection when everyone agreed it was bad right wing media said liberals had done it and secretly framed conservatives. Then when so much evidence came out that it being conservatives was undeniable they changed their minds and decided the insurrection was fine, really.
Their positions and claims shift more than the wind. But the wind for them is always blowing towards, "we dint do nuffin wrong!"
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,708
37,841
136
Their positions and claims shift more than the wind. But the wind for them is always blowing towards, "we dint do nuffin!"
Well originally it was ‘we dint do nuffin’ until it was shown they definitely did it. Then, as they do with everything else, they decided their coup attempt was actually good.

This is the big problem because since they have decided that trying to overthrow the government is fine if they lose an election they will try it again.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,334
5,393
136
Well originally it was ‘we dint do nuffin’ until it was shown they definitely did it. Then, as they do with everything else, they decided their coup attempt was actually good.

This is the big problem because since they have decided that trying to overthrow the government is fine if they lose an election they will try it again.
Next time it will be what they believe is legal means. If they gain enough control of SoS’s In battleground states they will just replace the electors and democracy is dead.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
78,708
37,841
136
Next time it will be what they believe is legal means. If they gain enough control of SoS’s In battleground states they will just replace the electors and democracy is dead.
Yes, as I mentioned before when they attempt a coup this way their response will not be 'yes, we're doing a coup', it will be 'what are you talking about? This is the way the system was designed! Democracy continues!'.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
16,931
15,057
136
Macing, beating and assaulting security to get access to a seat of democracy so they could get their hands on the politicians they wanted to destroy and the election they wanted to overthrow is nothing to shitty people like Ron and Greenman

This was a clear attempt to interrupt the peaceful transfer of democracy. If that isn't an insurrection I don't know what is.
 
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Lezunto

Senior member
Oct 24, 2020
973
873
106
Pohemi,

No, I wasn't the only one who saw what was coalescing on the Right Wing side. It was kind of easy to see after Obama's election.

In 2016, I was one of the many who warned repeatedly about the foolishness of Bernie Sanders, the rage of his most ardent supporters and the absolute dumbness of voting for third party candidates.

The anger over Bernie losing the nomination was so bad NPR estimated that 10% of Bernie Bots voted for Trump in 2016. Vox put the number at 12%. That is freaking insane - people on the Left voting for a dude who is so stupid, ignorant and racist. But it happened.

Has this animosity faded away? I don't believe it has. I don't give two chits about Bernie, AOC or any other Socialist fruitcake. I'm not a Progressive. I'm an older Democrat and my only interest is in surviving the Pandemic and the dunderheads on the Right.

And of course, making sure the hungry, the homeless and the downtrodden receive the help they need.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,337
1,930
126
How in the world Ron Johnson has ever won re-election in a great state like Wisconsin totally baffles me. And the fact that he is apparently leading now, in the light of everything that is known, and the delicate balance in the Senate, and the fact that the GOP Senators ALWAYS vote together and vote to protect the party as their primary purpose (the benefit to the citizens of WI and/or the US is not even a factor) is absolutely flabbergasting.

I guess WI is sick of greatness. When I lived there the senators were BIll Proxmire and Gaylord Nelson.
 

uclaLabrat

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2007
5,369
2,477
136
And by the way @Greenman I don't expect you to actually support democrats as that's probably a bridge too far - what I would hope though is when Republicans try a second coup similar to the coup they attempted in 2021 that you will at least call it out for what it is and refuse to support it.

That means when 'independent state legislatures' submit electoral votes in defiance of the will of their people you don't say 'that's how the system was designed', you say 'this is a coup'.
I realize this post was mostly tongue in cheek, cause if you were sincere in this hope, im afraid youre gonna have a date with a padded room in the near future 😁

It appears we have a disagreement on what an armed insurrection is.
How many shots were fired and by who?
How many firearms were confiscated at the event?
How many members of congress were directly confronted?
Why were the insurrectionists taking selfies and posting them on social media?

I stand by my opinion, it was a riot. There was no consolidated effort to achieve a goal. There were no defined operational parameters, there was no clear organization.
I've said it again and again, my boy scout troop could have planed and executed a far more successful operation. This was a pack of fired up idiots that once again prove my theory that as the number of people in an angry group increases, the average IQ decreases.

Stupid people do stupid things, this is axiomatic. It's so fundamental to the human condition that we don't address the issue, we simply make laws to try and control the idiots.
QED.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
16,931
15,057
136
This is one of the scariest things. I don't think @Greenman is an insurrectionist and I don't think he wants a coup. I do think that the next time the GOP tries a coup, and they will try again, he will excuse it or come up with some reason why it wasn't really a coup.
Yes he will try to excuse that too. And if DeSantis or whomever runs in 2024 acts like a fascist like Trump, he'll happily vote for them. He is just as bad at that point.

He is the enemy, and as long as you keep ignoring the enemy, the less you will be prepared and the less you will prepare the people you speak to.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
6,000
4,733
146
I guess WI is sick of greatness. When I lived there the senators were BIll Proxmire and Gaylord Nelson.
It felt like we took a downward spiral into hard conservatism when Tommy Thomson was at the helm as governor, and the state legislature has only gotten worse ever since. Scott Walker helped accelerate the spiral down the drain.

Most of the state is red, and state (governor, AG, etc.) and national level elections are primarily decided by the three largest cities or respective counties. But our local govs and state legislature is worse than ever. People like Robin Vos and the Fitzgerald brothers (whose father heads the State Troopers) will just continue regressing us, as if they take pride in "sticking it to the libs", constituents be damned. They are NOT helping the people of WI.

People just keep reelecting them, so there isn't a way to change it.

As for our US congresscritters...I miss Russ Feingold.
We went from one of the most useful Senators in US Congress with Russ, to one of the most useless bastards to ever fill the seat, Ron Johnson, who has gone full Q-anon. Such a travesty.
Most of our Representatives are asshats as well (such as Glenn Grothman.)
 
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