Sen Kerry's voting record on defense spending

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Meh, never thought Kerry was so hot. One thing in his favor though, he never lied to the American Public to garner their support for the ill conceived invasion and occupation in Iraq.

Interesting, but the topic of the thread is Kerry's voting record on defense. What do you think about that?

Good man. Only a reckless fool would vote for every single defense bill presented. The same applies for any other category of spending bills, e.g., every education bill, every social programs bill, etc. Spending bills are invariably loaded with pork. I'm glad to see Kerry has the fiscal responsibility to vote against a few of them.

Now, if you want to present useful information, show us the overall Senate vote for each of those bills. Show us a list of all the defense bills Kerry voted for. Show us the history of each of the bills you listed, including any amendments or other changes made to gain passage on subsequent votes. Show us you're capable of meaningful analysis instead of being just another blind partisan parrot.

he can't and he won't. prime example was home land security and the lieberman version. if you supported the lieberman version and didn't support the hacked up bush version, bushites would call you weak on defence and against homeland security intellectual dishonesty at its finest.

this is the precise reason we have people swear to tell the whole truth, when under oath. you can lie through simple omission.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin
When questioned on defense funding, he said: "I have voted for almost all weapon systems that we have today with few exceptions. Unfortunately, these are people who've never met a system they didn't like. I have." Kerry voted against the B-1 bomber, B-2 stealth bomber, the Apache helicopter, Patriot missile system, the F-15, F-14A, F-14D jets, the AV-8B Harrier jet, and the Trident missile system. He also said he would make sure there were cutbacks to the M1 Abrams tank, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and the F-16 jet. If these are the "unimportant" items he voted against, what on earth were the important ones he did vote for?

Let's stick to the facts and leave the spin outside, shall we?

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127/

You want to leave the spin outside, yet you link to Slate? Lol.

Unfortunately for you, Kerry's voting record is in the public domain for all to see.

Slate just pulled the same information available factcheck.org, fair.org and many other places.

Go ahead, dispute the fact that Cheney said we had enough of these fighters/tanks/missiles...go ahead...lie some more.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Riprorin
When questioned on defense funding, he said: "I have voted for almost all weapon systems that we have today with few exceptions. Unfortunately, these are people who've never met a system they didn't like. I have." Kerry voted against the B-1 bomber, B-2 stealth bomber, the Apache helicopter, Patriot missile system, the F-15, F-14A, F-14D jets, the AV-8B Harrier jet, and the Trident missile system. He also said he would make sure there were cutbacks to the M1 Abrams tank, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, the Tomahawk cruise missile, and the F-16 jet. If these are the "unimportant" items he voted against, what on earth were the important ones he did vote for?

Let's stick to the facts and leave the spin outside, shall we?

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127/

You want to leave the spin outside, yet you link to Slate? Lol.

Unfortunately for you, Kerry's voting record is in the public domain for all to see.

Kind of like the mutilated bodies of those four Contractors in Iraq hanging from the bridge!!!

LOL, contractors....

 

[SuperTool]

Defense spending is out of control. Some of my friends work for defense contractors and the stories they tell me, they do pretty much everything short of burning money to waste our taxpayer bucks.
So unless someone proves to me otherwise all these votes were against pork laden defense boondoggles that should have been voted down.

 

[sandorski]

At least he had the cajones to vote against some spending, Bush just signs every Deficit spending Bill put in front of him.

 

[zantac]

The reason this bill had no cosponsors is because it was redundant. There was a bill that had these cuts in it already either in committee at the time, or waiting for a floor vote. The bill that came to the floor was the GOP bill. The cuts in the GOP bill were far larger than what kerry had recommended. I believe the sponsor of the GOP bill was Arlen Specter (whom i will admit is not exactly a hard core conservative).

This is old news. I think this was covered in one of the president's first ads. Either that or one of Cheney's snarl/speech combos he so often gives.

 

[Jhhnn]

From Riprorin-

You want to leave the spin outside, yet you link to Slate? Lol.

Nice bit of kill the messenger. Do you dispute the claims or the context of the Slate article? Is it somehow inaccurate, and if so, why? GHWB and Cheney didn't make those statements?

Seems to me that the inaccuracies are in the claims of the RNC, in a very selective misrepresentation of the voting record. It's called revisionist history.

 

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
From Riprorin-

You want to leave the spin outside, yet you link to Slate? Lol.

Nice bit of kill the messenger. Do you dispute the claims or the context of the Slate article? Is it somehow inaccurate, and if so, why? GHWB and Cheney didn't make those statements?

Seems to me that the inaccuracies are in the claims of the RNC, in a very selective misrepresentation of the voting record. It's called revisionist history.

From the article. My comments are in bold:

Granted, these reductions were made in the wake of the Soviet Union's dissolution and the Cold War's demise.

At least the author is honest regarding the cuts proposed by Cheney and Powell.

But that's just the point: Proposed cuts must be examined in context. A vote against a particular weapons system doesn't necessarily indicate indifference toward national defense.

But it could, right?

Looking at the weapons that the RNC says Kerry voted to cut, a good case could be made, certainly at the time, that some of them (the B-2 bomber and President Reagan's "Star Wars" missile-defense program) should have been cut. As for the others (the M-1 tank and the F-14, F-15, and F-16 fighter planes, among others), Kerry didn't really vote to cut them.

He didn't really vote to cut them? Oh, sounds like Kerry speak.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Nice bit of kill the messenger. Do you dispute the claims or the context of the Slate article? Is it somehow inaccurate, and if so, why? GHWB and Cheney didn't make those statements?

Seems to me that the inaccuracies are in the claims of the RNC, in a very selective misrepresentation of the voting record. It's called revisionist history.

From the article. My comments are in bold:

Granted, these reductions were made in the wake of the Soviet Union's dissolution and the Cold War's demise.

At least the author is honest regarding the cuts proposed by Cheney and Powell.

Too bad you can't be honest that Cheney proposed cuts to the same systems you claim Kerry voted to cut.

But that's just the point: Proposed cuts must be examined in context. A vote against a particular weapons system doesn't necessarily indicate indifference toward national defense.

But it could, right?

No, not at all. It would indicated prudence, if anything, in wanting to eliminate unnecessary systems.

Looking at the weapons that the RNC says Kerry voted to cut, a good case could be made, certainly at the time, that some of them (the B-2 bomber and President Reagan's "Star Wars" missile-defense program) should have been cut. As for the others (the M-1 tank and the F-14, F-15, and F-16 fighter planes, among others), Kerry didn't really vote to cut them.

He didn't really vote to cut them? Oh, sounds like Kerry speak.

Again, from the factcheck.org article I listed to which you failed to respond:

Voting Against M-1 Tanks? Not Really.

And Republicans go too far when they claim that Kerry voted against such mainstay weapons of today's military as the M-1 Abrams tank, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, and the Patriot missile. (See this Republican National Committee "fact sheet," for example.) These claims are misleading because they rest on Kerry's votes against the entire Pentagon appropriations bills in 1990 and 1995. Kerry also voted against the Pentagon authorization bills (which provide authority to spend but not the actual money) in those years and also in 1996. But none of those were votes against specific weapons systems. Kerry's critics might just as well say he was voting to fire the entire Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps

And also from that site:

Starting in 1997 Kerry voted for every regular Department of Defense appropriations bill and for every authorization bill as well.