Last I checked alito had about 58-60 votes. So what should be considered "the will of the people"?
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
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The court system has NOTHING to do with the will of the people.
While I agree this may be a huge mistake for the democrats, and one interpretation is a bad case of 'sore-loserism', Bush is also making massive changes to the Supreme Court with an obvious political agenda.
You hold it against democrats that they didn't stand on principle over Iraq, even when they stood no chance of succeeding (of course, it requires some serious historical revisionism for you to make that case, but let's just say I grant it to you), then when one of them suggests that this is worth standing - and losing - as a matter of principle, you think that's bad too.
I think you folks have a term for this.
Last I checked no vote has taken place yet. Unless you know something the rest of America doesnt.
*cough* Delay Thread *cough*
[/quote]
Take my example. Completely disregard Zendari and Pabster. Since they are not interested in actual debate, but rather prefer to orgasm from seeing their own badly written flamebait, responding to their taunts is nothing but a waste of time. There are enough conservatives on AT P&N who are actually worth talking to.
What about his resume makes Alito great? Can you post of a copy of of his resume please, thanks in advance.
OrByte
Diamond Member
- Jul 21, 2000
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Take my example. Completely disregard Zendari and Pabster. Since they are not interested in actual debate, but rather prefer to orgasm from seeing their own badly written flamebait, responding to their taunts is nothing but a waste of time. There are enough conservatives on AT P&N who are actually worth talking to.[/quote] But today I feel particularly close to Zenny and Pabby. I want to reach out and show them the error of their crappy logical and fallacious ways. I even went so far as to use their badly formed arguments, illogicial reasoning, and flamebait tactics to get them to like me and trust me
Tommorow I will get back to ignoring them
thank you for your concern!
That's called "I have no argument" and is as cowardly as it gets.
But then, we knew that already from your posts.
Judges are nominated by a President, and confirmed with the consent of the Senate, elected by the people, and thus these 2 aspects are indeed reflective of the will of the people.
Presidents make changes to the Supreme Court. That's their job.
The "gentlemen's club" ceased to exist long ago. The Republicans, now that they have full control of both Houses of Congress, have worked over the last few years to solidify their stronghold. They've altered rules consistently to give them more power and the Democrats less power. It's almost as if Norquist gave them a gameplan and they're following it play-by-play. I hope like hell the filibuster does occur and the Republicans try the nuclear option. The filibuster is a tried-and-true part of our government and the Republicans' attempts to do away with over 200 years of history will come back and bite them in the ass....hard.
Plus, Alito is no more qualified to serve on the SCOTUS as I am. He may have more legal qualifications but his incredibly biased agenda would damage the great institution that is our Judicial branch.
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to the victor goes the spoils?
i don't think there was this much handwringing when ruth bader ginsburg was nominated a decade ago. and she is obviously at least as far left as alito is right. not only that, alito is replacing a nominal conservative, so the change isn't massive in comparison to ginsburg replacing a conservative. that was a massive change, if any change can be called massive.
CallMeJoe
Diamond Member
- Jul 30, 2004
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Kerry is once again demonstrating the brilliant political instincts that served him so well in the 2004 presidential campaign. Like Alito or not (and I personally do not), there is no chance of a successful filibuster of his nomination unless he is caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy.
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well which is it? is he more qualified or no more qualified?
and what makes you think he has an agenda?
by all accounts he is an extremely dry technician of the law. is being a techinician having an agenda?
and how would it do damage, if there is an agenda?
post links. now.
It doesn't have anything to do with the will of people? How so? The people I voted for last election are in essence suppose to express the will of the people...
With that said, I don't like Alito but I do think our senators represent to some degree the will of the people...
BTW - Was Stunt banned? What for?
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
- Mar 30, 2004
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The court system has nothing to do with the will of the people. Try reaidng your own constitution, and have a look into separation of powers, etc.
Of course the president makes nominations to the supreme court (stop oversimplifying), and of course there are political connotations; my personal opinion is that Alito is infinitely more qualified than the last candidate put forward.
But (even if I were American) my opinion doesn't matter, because the Supreme Court is there to protect people from 'the will of the people', not to help them exercise it.
I think I made that very clear. No more qualified than I.
Uh.... have you read *anything* critical of Alito or just what's on whitehouse.gov?
I think my question above just got answered.
By actually have a radical activist presiding on the Court. That's not good for America. Esp. when it's someone of a far-right agenda that leans toward pro-government, pro-corporate, pro-religion, pro-authoritarian decisions and opinions. He's the exact opposite of what was in the minds of our Founding Fathers.
Been done in multiple places. Try reading something besides WH press releases.
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read the bolded
i've read plenty of stuff critical of alito. the critics basically boil down to: he's technical, a technical analysis of the law leads to these conclusions, so HOLY CRAP he's got an agenda! even ginsburg says that roe v. wade was overreaching. one of the prime values of a court is predictability, which a technical analysis tends to provide because anyone can do the math and see the result. heck, if he's a techinician he may even have the most prized thing an officer of the court can have, which is that he listens to arguments, evaluates each on the merits, and then makes a decision based on the math of the case, rather than finding an answer from thin air and then filling in the logic to fit what you want to say. if we wanted to find an answer from thin air we might as well not have a legal system. we should abandon all common law and return to the courts of the 11th century!
you don't seem to have any understanding of the whole point of the legal system.
3chordcharlie
Diamond Member
- Mar 30, 2004
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You're really not good at reading.
The court system has nothing to do with the will of the people; it's not the job of the supreme court to listen to the people, or to make them happy, or anything of the sort - nor is it the job of any other court in your country to do so.
The idea of any connection between elections and judicial positions is anaethema to a constitutional republic (I believe you elect some lower court judges; which I would call absolutely retarded), but since someone has to choose, a convention for trying to minimize partisanship has been created, and until now more or less followed.
At any given time, it is likely that there are a few candidates around who could impress and receive the support of 80 or more senate votes; I think Alito is much more qualified than the previous candidate (who you blindly supported, if I recall correctly, due to Bush having made the nomination), and he will almost certainly be confirmed. The whole concept here is supposed to be and has generally been qualification.
Nutcases like you dancing around gleefully because you think Bush has stacked the court with people who will simply agree with you clearly don't 'get it'.
Same to you
Let's see...typically siding with the government? Favoring a unitary executive? Dismissive of, essentially, a person raped? Quite the fine, upstanding individual. :roll:
-In the 2001 case of Riley v. Taylor, Alito dissented in the case of a black death row inmate who argued that the prosecution improperly challenged black jurors. The defendant had used statistical evidence, and Alito wrote, "suppose we ask our ?amateur with a pocket calculator? whether the American people take right- or left-handedness into account in choosing their presidents."
The opinion drew the wrath of his colleagues.
-In Bray v. Marriott Hotels, Alito sought to throw out the hiring-discrimination case of a black hotel housekeeper who was denied a promotion and saw the job go to a white woman. A three-judge panel of the 3rd Circuit ruled in 1997 that she could take her case before a jury, overturning a lower court decision that she had not made a strong enough case for that.
-In Sheridan v. DuPont, Alito was the lone vote in a 12-1 decision on a case of sex discrimination. The plaintiff in the 1996 case had claimed discrimination after a demotion and sexual harassment. Alito wrote that a plaintiff in such a case should not be able to avoid having a judge summarily dismiss the case just by casting doubt on an employer?s version of the story. The full 3rd Circuit ruled that the case should be reconsidered for a new trial.
-In Rompilla v. Horn, Alito upheld a 17-year-old death penalty of Ronald Rompilla, who alleged that his public defenders failed to review records showing mitigating evidence of mental retardation and traumatic upbringing, even after prosecutors gave warning they planned to use the documents against him. The Supreme Court decided 5-4 to order a new penalty trial, warning state courts that shoddy defense work won?t be tolerated.
A Knight Ridder analysis of more than 300 written opinions by Alito, for example, reveals that he has almost never found a government search unconstitutional and that he has argued to relax warrant requirements and to broaden the kinds of searches that warrants permit.
In one 2004 case, for example, Alito didn't find fault with an 18-month, round-the-clock surveillance operation that was never approved by a judge.
"His record suggests an extremely strong pro-government bias," said Robert Gordon, senior vice president of the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank. Gordon separately examined 12 search and seizure cases where other 3rd Circuit judges disagreed with Alito. The Supreme Court nominee did not oppose the government in any of them, he said.
Gordon found Alito particularly likely to question the need for warrants.
On the federal appeals court, Judge Alito:
* Ruled that Congress lacked power to enact the FMLA.1 Later, in a similar case, the Supreme Court came to the opposite result.2 It rejected Judge Alito?s reasoning that the FMLA was not an appropriate response to discrimination.
* Dissented when the federal appeals court upheld Congress? power to ban possession of machine guns.3 His reasoning rejected over 60 years of case law regarding Congress? power to regulate interstate commerce. 4
# Judge Alito dissented in a case where the majority of the court found that a medical student was entitled to a trial on her claims challenging her school?s failure to make accommodations for her back injury. The majority severely criticized Judge Alito?s analysis and stated that ?few if any Rehabilitation Act cases would survive summary judgment if such an analysis were applied to each handicapped individual?s request for accommodations.? 12
# Judge Alito joined a decision seriously weakening the protections of the Fair Housing Act. He excused local zoning boards from engaging in a process to identify reasonable accommodations needed to provide equal access for people with disabilities.11
# Judge Alito dissented from an opinion reinstating the claims of an employee with developmental disabilities who was subjected to repeated cruel assaults. The man?s coworkers forcibly sodomized him with a broom, stuffed him into a garbage can, beat him, and made humiliating comments about his mental disability 13. Judge Alito would have dismissed the man?s claims because he did not use the right language in his brief.
This makes as much sense as his last minute goose hunting trip in '04.
Alito is in and that's that.
Alito is in and that's that.
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so, you insist that you aren't being inconsistent when you say you have as much qualification and then say that he is qualified legally, which is the only qualification that matters.
and you still have done nothing to show that he is not a dry technical applier of law. he is nothing but that. if the law came out differently he would apply it as written.
and you still have done nothing to show that he is not a dry technical applier of law. he is nothing but that. if the law came out differently he would apply it as written.
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after reading through 81 pages of riley v. taylor, i can safely say that the characterization of alito's opinion is skewed. first, alito is pointing out that correlation is not causation. that is the first thing anyone learns in statistics. the whole quote is
now, the reasons for striking someone can be basically anything but race (in fact, you could strike a juror for no reason at all, but it would be like calling a timeout in football for no reason at all). you can strike someone if they refuse to follow the law and refuse to consider the death penalty. reading through the case, there is a transcript of some of the jurors, and some of them indicated that they would not apply the death penalty. the prosecution can strike a juror due to that. the same prosecution also struck black jurors when a white defendant was up on a capital murder charge. racism? maybe. maybe not.
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