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Discussion Sen. Kamala Harris reintroduces Middle Class Tax Cut Bill (LIFT)

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
22,806
5,161
136
Jan 25, 2011
16,084
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At some point maybe, just maybe, they can do away with the symbolic bill proposals and hopefully work together to actually accomplish something.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,813
3,327
126
The secret to a strong middle class is to not kick people when they're down.

When any meaningful health event results in bankruptcy, when 6 out of 10 people lack savings of any kind, when any sort of illness or disruption in employment can result in homelessness, WTF is a small tax break going to do for them? There may be a few luckier winners of the bunch, but most people won't make it out of the minefield of pitfalls waiting to destroy middle class families.

Imagine a social safety net where medical need did not bankrupt families, where housing was automatically affordable, and a guaranteed income followed you in life, no matter your job or location. Freedom and security so you can explore entrepreneurship, rather than needing the silver spoons our President enjoyed. A man who ran several businesses bankrupt, yet was free from the consequences. That sort of protection is what the middle class needs, and what all Americans deserve.
 
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ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
28,661
8,794
136
What exactly would the point be in another needless tax cut? Half the people in the middle class pay very little in taxes as it is. Plus during a strong economy, which we have despite trumps incompetence, we should be raising taxes.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,084
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What would those things be? Serious question.
Anything. Literally anything that needs to be done. Infrastructure, health care, immigration. Pick and choose.

Everything that is being put forward now or being suggested is as before. Partisan one sided proposals with no hope of support from the other side. Gridlock continues. Hilarity ensues. The people continue to be pawns.
 

Bitek

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2001
9,188
3,202
136
Putting money in the pocket of people who need it and will spend it is far more useful than cutting taxes for billionaires.

We need to do those other things as well.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,171
20,884
136
Anything. Literally anything that needs to be done. Infrastructure, health care, immigration. Pick and choose.

Everything that is being put forward now or being suggested is as before. Partisan one sided proposals with no hope of support from the other side. Gridlock continues. Hilarity ensues. The people continue to be pawns.
Infrastructure - Republicans have no interest in it and when they do it's an attempt to privatize it.
Health care - Republican proposals for health care are centered around taking it away from the poor and making it possible to discriminate based on pre-existing conditions. What is the middle ground there?
Immigration - Republicans wish to not only further crack down on illegal immigration, they are now focusing on decreasing legal immigration as well. What's the middle ground there?

Basically the only 'deal' I see going forward is maybe some sort of DACA fix in exchange for money for the useless wall. As for the rest of it I genuinely don't know what that compromise would even look like because the basic ideals are diametrically opposed. It's true that the average AMERICAN on the left and right can find a lot to compromise about but frankly speaking current elected Republican officials have little to no resemblance to them. They are radicalized to the extent that even when they held all the levers of power their attempts to accomplish things fell apart because they couldn't agree on how cruel to be to the poor. The ones that wanted to be less cruel are gone, replaced by Democrats. The people you have left are the real crazies.
 
Feb 4, 2009
28,757
9,341
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Infrastructure - Republicans have no interest in it and when they do it's an attempt to privatize it.
Health care - Republican proposals for health care are centered around taking it away from the poor and making it possible to discriminate based on pre-existing conditions. What is the middle ground there?
Immigration - Republicans wish to not only further crack down on illegal immigration, they are now focusing on decreasing legal immigration as well. What's the middle ground there?

Basically the only 'deal' I see going forward is maybe some sort of DACA fix in exchange for money for the useless wall. As for the rest of it I genuinely don't know what that compromise would even look like because the basic ideals are diametrically opposed. It's true that the average AMERICAN on the left and right can find a lot to compromise about but frankly speaking current elected Republican officials have little to no resemblance to them. They are radicalized to the extent that even when they held all the levers of power their attempts to accomplish things fell apart because they couldn't agree on how cruel to be to the poor. The ones that wanted to be less cruel are gone, replaced by Democrats. The people you have left are the real crazies.
Trump suggested he and Pelosi talk infrastructure next week to find common ground or something similar. No link it’s from something I read yesterday.
Looks like next week will finally be infrastructure week.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,084
7,573
146
Infrastructure - Republicans have no interest in it and when they do it's an attempt to privatize it.
Health care - Republican proposals for health care are centered around taking it away from the poor and making it possible to discriminate based on pre-existing conditions. What is the middle ground there?
Immigration - Republicans wish to not only further crack down on illegal immigration, they are now focusing on decreasing legal immigration as well. What's the middle ground there?

Basically the only 'deal' I see going forward is maybe some sort of DACA fix in exchange for money for the useless wall. As for the rest of it I genuinely don't know what that compromise would even look like because the basic ideals are diametrically opposed. It's true that the average AMERICAN on the left and right can find a lot to compromise about but frankly speaking current elected Republican officials have little to no resemblance to them. They are radicalized to the extent that even when they held all the levers of power their attempts to accomplish things fell apart because they couldn't agree on how cruel to be to the poor. The ones that wanted to be less cruel are gone, replaced by Democrats. The people you have left are the real crazies.
You are arguing my point. The fact that "both sides" are so diametrically opposed to each other and so entrenched in those positions we will continue to see nothing but symbolic bills being passed and shot down. Until both finally take a step back and work to compromise we will see nothing meaningful and the back and forth will go on in perpetuity.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,171
20,884
136
You are arguing my point. The fact that "both sides" are so diametrically opposed to each other and so entrenched in those positions we will continue to see nothing but symbolic bills being passed and shot down. Until both finally take a step back and work to compromise we will see nothing meaningful and the back and forth will go on in perpetuity.
That is not my point, my point is that there is no point for compromise because one side is radicalized to such an extent that compromise with them is not possible on most issues.

This isn't new with Trump either. Remember how in the past Republican presidential candidates were asked if they would raise taxes if they got $10 in budget cuts for every $1 in tax increases and not a single one said they would? Remember how they couldn't repeal the ACA so instead they just decided to eliminate the individual mandate, making things worse for everyone, out of a fit of pique?

I would love to know what that compromise might look like, seriously.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,330
6,443
136
Infrastructure - Republicans have no interest in it and when they do it's an attempt to privatize it.
Health care - Republican proposals for health care are centered around taking it away from the poor and making it possible to discriminate based on pre-existing conditions. What is the middle ground there?
Immigration - Republicans wish to not only further crack down on illegal immigration, they are now focusing on decreasing legal immigration as well. What's the middle ground there?

Basically the only 'deal' I see going forward is maybe some sort of DACA fix in exchange for money for the useless wall. As for the rest of it I genuinely don't know what that compromise would even look like because the basic ideals are diametrically opposed. It's true that the average AMERICAN on the left and right can find a lot to compromise about but frankly speaking current elected Republican officials have little to no resemblance to them. They are radicalized to the extent that even when they held all the levers of power their attempts to accomplish things fell apart because they couldn't agree on how cruel to be to the poor. The ones that wanted to be less cruel are gone, replaced by Democrats. The people you have left are the real crazies.
Trump's base will crucify him if he gives in to DACA the same as they would if he gives in on the wall. I honestly think there is a possibility that an agreement will not be reached unless Democrats cave.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,171
20,884
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Trump's base will crucify him if he gives in to DACA the same as they would if he gives in on the wall. I honestly think there is a possibility that an agreement will not be reached unless Democrats cave.
I think an agreement will be reached when they find some sort of deal where Trump can lie about it and claim he got the wall even when he didn't.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
22,806
5,161
136
Trump suggested he and Pelosi talk infrastructure next week to find common ground or something similar. No link it’s from something I read yesterday.
Looks like next week will finally be infrastructure week.
Did somebody say... INFRASTRUCTURE WEEK??!!

Seriously though, I’d bet this Harris stunt is literally just a ploy so that her prez campaign TV ads can say she “championed a middle class tax cut on day one of the new Congress” and fight back against the perception of Democrats as tax raising fiends.
 

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
814
61
91
This is basically a social security type of plan for those under 50k(single), 100k(married). I don't really see how they can call this a tax cut.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,330
6,443
136
I think an agreement will be reached when they find some sort of deal where Trump can lie about it and claim he got the wall even when he didn't.
I agree, I just don't see how it could be done. Trump will not agree to anything that his base doesn't like.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
36,031
9,708
136
I think an agreement will be reached when they find some sort of deal where Trump can lie about it and claim he got the wall even when he didn't.
But can the Dems give him even that at this point were they inclined? I don't think so without something significant to show for it...like say citizenship for DACA eligibles.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,813
3,327
126
I would love to know what that compromise might look like, seriously.
The Affordable Care Act was the compromise.

@MomentsofSanity
It took the Republican plan from the 90s, enacted by Mitt Romney in the 00s (Republican Presidential nominee), and passed by Obama in '10. It mandated health coverage without the feds ensuring that it'd be paid for. Half measure. Did Republicans love and support it? Heh....
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,171
20,884
136
But can the Dems give him even that at this point were they inclined? I don't think so without something significant to show for it...like say citizenship for DACA eligibles.
Oh I meant a situation where Democrats don't give him wall funding and communicate that to their base while Trump just lies to his base about how he won and he's the best ever.
 

Stokely

Senior member
Jun 5, 2017
854
707
106
Add another tax cut if you take away the huge raise the ultra-rich got from the last one.

And of course, the ability to pay for netflix for the rest of us (at least for the first few years).
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
4,223
1,589
136
What exactly would the point be in another needless tax cut? Half the people in the middle class pay very little in taxes as it is. Plus during a strong economy, which we have despite trumps incompetence, we should be raising taxes.
Lol ok. I'm middle class and pay about 35% in taxes. To me that's not little at all.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
50,664
3,312
126
Lol ok. I'm middle class and pay about 35% in taxes. To me that's not little at all.
Are you sure you're middle class, and/or that you're calculating your effective tax rate correctly? That seems pretty high.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
71,171
20,884
136
Are you sure you're middle class, and/or that you're calculating your effective tax rate correctly? That seems pretty high.
Yeah I live in one of the highest tax areas of the country and my combined income and payroll taxes are about 25%.

If you add in all the other taxes I pay though, sales tax, property tax, etc, my percentage is probably around 35%. It’s the state and local taxes that really stick it to the middle class and poor, not the federal ones.
 

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