Sempron 2800+ pair with DFI LANPARTY UT nF3 250Gb?

[irenealan]

Hi I am trying to build a low budget system just for downloading and watching videos. Is the Sempron 2800+ (64bit) paired with a DFI LANPARTY UT nF3 250Gb still the best match? Or I can do something better with the same cost?

Also OT, can I pair the DFI LANPARTY UT nF3 250Gb board with DDR2 PC4200 as I am trying to save money! I don't understand why DDR2 PC4200 is cheaper than DDR PC3200 as the former one should be faster right? Thanks for all the help!

 

[pkrush]

There are no Athlon 64 motherboards that can use DDR2. I'd go with a Sempron 64 2800+ with a Biostar geforce6100-m7 myself ( the onboard video should be perfect for your needs). it should overclock almost as well as the DFI.

 

[irenealan]

thanks pkrush, I just took a look at the board and it seems to have good review in Newegg. The main reason I want to get the DFI board is for it's strong ability to OC. If the Biostar can do the same then I will get the Biostar and save the extra $80 for the MB and Video Card.

Also should I get the 1GB single stick of DDR PC3200 ram instead since I was thinking to get the DDR2 PC4200 512x2 for dual channel! Thanks for all the help again!

 

[pkrush]

With a socket 754 processor, get a single stick since it can't use dual channel anyway and single sticks are usually cheaper.

 

[irenealan]

now I look at the memory and found they have single and double sided... is there any different... in terms of speed, performance and future upgrade?

Is Patriot a good brand? or what brand is good for low CAS latency? Thanks very much again!

 

[Zap]

Patriot is fine. I'll second the Biostar board as suitable for your needs. Now, some people may argue that the DFI board will overclock higher - and they may be right, but you did mention "I am trying to build a low budget system" and for the budget it does NOT make sense to spend the extra $50 for the board. May as well spend the extra $50 on the CPU and start out with a 3400+ Sempron and a cheap board for the same price - defaults to 400MHz higher so the DFI will need to be able to overclock 400MHz better just to keep even.

 

[irenealan]

Just wonder, how much can the Biostar OC to? I want the DFI cuz I heard it's good for OC up to 300 or higher but I don't know about the Biostar.

Thanks very much for all the help!

 

[o1die]

Do yourself a favor and forget about overclocking. Stability is lacking in most overclocked setups. Most people don't have the time to thoroughly test the system for the perfect bios settings. I would instead put a socket 754 athlon 64 on a cheap "all in one" board with via or sis chipset. You'll get better performance overall. I get the Fry's combo specials, where the board is almost free.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: o1die
Do yourself a favor and forget about overclocking. Stability is lacking in most overclocked setups.

I take issue with that statement. True, some overclocked systems are unstable. Also true, some overclocked systems are as stable as stable can be. Perhaps the problem arises from a few people getting some incredible overclocks which makes everyone think that those overclocks are the norm, and then people start complaining that their systems aren't stable when in reality their 1.8GHz 3200+ really doesn't want to run at the 2.7GHz that they insist it should be able to run at (and every other person on the forums state the same thing) when indeed it may be perfectly stable (in EVERY sense of the word) at 2.3-2.5GHz.

Irenealan, IIRC I've seen reports of the Biostar hitting near 300MHz. Perhaps instead of spending the extra $50 for the DFI board, spend the extra $25 for a Sempron 3100+ with a higher multiplier - that way you won't need a super high bus speed for the same clock speed.

 

[fire400]

Originally posted by: pkrush
There are no Athlon 64 motherboards that can use DDR2. I'd go with a Sempron 64 2800+ with a Biostar geforce6100-m7 myself ( the onboard video should be perfect for your needs). it should overclock almost as well as the DFI.

"There are no Athlon 64 motherboards that can use DDR2."

This isn't 100% true.

 

[irenealan]

Thanks for all the comments. I understand it may sound conflicting to build a budgeted system yet with a good OC speed. I guess I don't need to OC the Sempron higher than 300Mhz, I am just trying to get as much speed as possible for the CPU/MB setup. If getting a higher model Sempron with a non-DFI board would give me more stability yet the same speed as the setup of a lower model Sempron with a DFI board, then I may go ahead a get the former setup.

However, since I am trying to save as much as possible, I guess I would get the Biostar with Sempron 2800+. As I said before, I don't think I need a CPU running at 2.4ghz or above, just I want to get a MB that would give good OC so the chip can run at a speed it suppose to support! I guess we buy AMD chip cuz it's good for game and OC, that's why we are trying to stretch the chip's limit as much as possible. Thanks again for all the help! I guess I am settled with this Biostar setup, now I just need to find good price for the setup and ram!

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: fire400
"There are no Athlon 64 motherboards that can use DDR2."

This isn't 100% true.

Where can you find them outside of engineering samples?

BTW, are you seriously running the system in your .sig? I wasn't aware that Intel made Pentium MMX chips under 166MHz.

Irenealan, typically you can hope for an "easy" overclock of a low end CPU to match the highest end CPU of the same type/process, and that is the Sempron 3300+/3400+ at 2GHz. Of course you can look at it a different way and aim for 2.4GHz being that the majority of A64 chips max out at that speed stock (excepting for a few super expensive models).

 

[irenealan]

yup exactly Zap... I want to build a budgeted system yet give me the speed of a higher end system if possible... if not I will still be satisfied!

But given the OC limit of AMD chip, it seems there's much room for it except that the limit is mostly governed by the ability of the MB. Hence it would be nice to save $30 if the Biostar would give 80 or even 90% of the speed that the DFI MB can OC to.

Zap you have suggestions on a cheap good stick of 1 GB ram? Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Zap]

The lower end chips will be motherboard limited. The higher end Semprons have a high enough multiplier that you'll probably never be motherboard limited on any known decent overclockable board - unless you find a super Sempron that can run at a true 3GHz!!! Assuming a nominal 300MHz or 250MHz system bus overclock on a given board:

Sempron 3300/3400 10x multiplier = 3GHz/2.5GHz
Sempron 3000/3100 9x multiplier = 2.7GHz/2.25GHz
Sempron 2600/2800 8x multiplier = 2.4GHz/2GHz
Sempron 2500 7x multiplier = 2.1GHz/1.75GHz

The lowish 250MHz system bus is what my ECS motherboard that Fry's Electronics gives away for free with a CPU can run at all day long - happens to be the max allowed in BIOS. "Good" motherboards can hit 300Mhz. "Average" boards can probably hit 270-280MHz. This means even on an average board the Semprons with 9x multipliers will be a good match. Only the 8x Semprons may need a "good" overclockable motherboard. The 7x Semprons are hopeless. 😛

What's your RAM budget?
$69 for 1GB G.Skill CAS 3
$86 for 1GB Gigaram CAS 2.5
$106 for 1GB G.Skill CAS 2
OMG I haven't noticed that prices on "value" RAM had dropped so much. I've never owned the CAS 3 RAM but it should work. I have a 512MB stick of CAS 2.5 RAM from Gigaram and it works as advertised. I have a pair of the 1GB CAS 2 G.Skill sticks and it works as advertised.

Current pricing has the Biostar Geforce6100 board at $60 (I've heard it overclocks the same as the $10 fancier Tforce model). The integrated video should serve you well, plus PCIe for upgrades. The DFI LANPARTY board that everyone raves about is $98 and has AGP. The almost-as-good DFI Infinity board has PCIe and is $75. With both DFI boards you'd have to get a separate video card from the get-go.

I see four "value" choices for CPUs.
Sempron 2600+ 128k 8x $64
Sempron 2800+ 256k 8x $76
Sempron 3000+ 128k 9x $86
Sempron 3100+ 256k 9x $100

The best "value" choice would be the 2600+ because the extra ~15% cost doesn't give an extra 15% performance from 256k cache on the 2800+, but it all depends on you at this point. You may decide on the 9x multiplier just for the possibility of going higher than 2.4GHz.

 

[irenealan]

Thanks Zap for your analysis. If the ECS board comes with the Fry's combo would OC up to 250Mhz then I would for sure go with such board since it's almost like free with the combo price.

For the ram, I was thinking somewhere around $70 to $80 and wonder if people usually OC the ram from CAS 3 to CAS 2.5? If that's the case then I don't see any point to spend extra for the CAS 2.5 or 2 ram.

I like the Biostar board since it has on board video and has a PCIe slot for future upgrade. Now that you mention DFI Infinity with PCIe, I wonder if it really OC as well as the Lanparty? If so I may go with such board since it may OC better than the Biostar and I don't really need the onboard AGP (although it's good to have it) since I have a back up video card to run.

For the CPU, I always hear from forums that it's worthy to pay the extra $10 for the 128k extra cache. So the 128k cache really don't make more than 10% of difference? I kept seeing combo from Fry's with 3000+ and what holding me back is the 128k Cache. If the extra cache won't matter much then I would definitely go with the Fry's combo.

Thanks very much for such long detailed comments. Have a nice day!

 

[Zap]

The Fry's Sempron deals usually come with the NFORCE3-A or 755-A2 boards. Those use AGP and have no integrated video, so figure another $40 or so for video that matches the integrated Geforce6100 of the Biostar. What you can do is to get a Fry's deal for the CPU, sell the motherboard and get the board you want (minus the selling price of ECS motherboard). :thumbsup: I'm getting rid of my NFORCE3-A from Fry's and putting the Sempron 2600+ on a better overclocker board that I already have (have a Chaintech VNF3-250 and Epox 8KDA3I).

 

[Zap]

... continuing from previous post...

Low latency is good, but may not be worth THAT much extra, so don't feel bad for going with the cheap RAM.

Though the ECS boards can hit 250MHz bus, the CPUs can usually handle more so you'd be motherboard limited.

The DFI Infinity board is nearly as overclockable as the LANPARTY, or so I've heard. Have never owned either.

IMO yes the extra cache makes the CPU faster. Does it make it 15% faster for the extra 15% cost? Nope. Flip a coin. It probably is more value than expensive low latency RAM, but not as good as another true 100MHz even though AMD says the extra cache is worth 200MHz, except when they say it is worth 100MHz. See, even AMD can't agree with itself.