Self-Defense gun kills 3 year old boy

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Nebor
Topic Title: Self-Defense gun kills 3 year old boy

Very sad. When can we get some common sense gun control in this country? How many children have to die?

Actually pretty amazing.

I had no idea that somehow we have given an inanimate object the ability to kill.

Does the Gun have legs and fingers and a brain?

 

[jjones]

A lot of chains being yanked in this thread.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: BurningDog

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
As much as you would like to make it about gun laws, its not. It's responsible parenting at fault.

What purpose could this woman possibly have for owning a pump action assault style automatic shotgun?

Wow, think you could have loaded that up with any more scary adjectives? How can something be pump action and automatic? The type of weapon had nothing to do with it. If it was a single shot crack barrel shotgun, the outcome would be the same.

The article mentions what her purpose was.

Common sense parenting is what's needed. Kids and guns don't mix.

Jesus motherfucking christ, not only didn't he argue for gun restrictions but YOU had to take his parody one step further and ACTUALLY MEAN IT.

That makes you kinda extra stupid, doesn't it?

Personally, a guy like you with a gun would make me wish i had a fucking tank to keep my kids in when we're in the US.

Please, this coming from a guy whose country wants to ban Samurai swords in a knee jerk reaction to a few attacks. You live in a nanny state that coddles you and takes away your rights every time a few do stupid things.

Kids die in car crashes everyday in this country and yours I am sure....you ready to ban cars also? Should we? Owning a gun here is a right....owning a car is a privilege...seems to me that privileges should be taken away before rights.

Kids die due to ingesting chemical cleaners because people do not keep them locked up...guess we should ban those too.

where does it stop?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: BurningDog

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
As much as you would like to make it about gun laws, its not. It's responsible parenting at fault.

What purpose could this woman possibly have for owning a pump action assault style automatic shotgun?

Wow, think you could have loaded that up with any more scary adjectives? How can something be pump action and automatic? The type of weapon had nothing to do with it. If it was a single shot crack barrel shotgun, the outcome would be the same.

The article mentions what her purpose was.

Common sense parenting is what's needed. Kids and guns don't mix.

Jesus motherfucking christ, not only didn't he argue for gun restrictions but YOU had to take his parody one step further and ACTUALLY MEAN IT.

That makes you kinda extra stupid, doesn't it?

Personally, a guy like you with a gun would make me wish i had a fucking tank to keep my kids in when we're in the US.

Please, this coming from a guy whose country wants to ban Samurai swords in a knee jerk reaction to a few attacks. You live in a nanny state that coddles you and takes away your rights every time a few do stupid things.

Kids die in car crashes everyday in this country and yours I am sure....you ready to ban cars also? Should we? Owning a gun here is a right....owning a car is a privilege...seems to me that privileges should be taken away before rights.

Kids die due to ingesting chemical cleaners because people do not keep them locked up...guess we should ban those too.

where does it stop?

oh shut the fuck up, you built yourself a strawman that you are now arguing against, none of the things you are arguing against are things i EVER mentioned.

My fucking point was that he is NOT arguing for gun restrictions and neither am i, i never have been, EVER even though some people don't get that.

Nebor must be laughing his arse of right now... cheers Nebor. Well done.

 

[Darwin333]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
She kept it under the couch!?! Loaded!?! <shakes head>

This is why I have/prefer a handgun that is easily hidden for self defense in the home. My kids never even knew I had it.... and still don't for that matter.

I take the opposite approach. I have taught my daughter about guns. I show her my guns. I teach her what can happen if she plays/picks up a gun. I teach her to respect them and to leave them alone. When she is old enough I am going to bring her to the range. I figure that teaching her the dangers is much better than her finding a gun and not knowing how dangerous it is.


Kind of funny story. Her cousin came over to play a few months ago and he brought a backpack of toys with him. He dumped them out on the floor in her playroom to get something or another while they where playing. He had a toy gun that didn't look very real but I guess since the only toy guns she has ever played with were the goofy looking nerf guns she thought it was real. She grabbed her cousin and ran into the living room and told me there was a gun on the floor. Just like I taught her to.

Granted, I don't go leaving shotguns under the couch or anywhere within her reach but I want her to know exactly what to do if she does come across a weapon.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Darwin333

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
She kept it under the couch!?! Loaded!?! <shakes head>

This is why I have/prefer a handgun that is easily hidden for self defense in the home. My kids never even knew I had it.... and still don't for that matter.

I take the opposite approach. I have taught my daughter about guns. I show her my guns. I teach her what can happen if she plays/picks up a gun. I teach her to respect them and to leave them alone. When she is old enough I am going to bring her to the range. I figure that teaching her the dangers is much better than her finding a gun and not knowing how dangerous it is.


Kind of funny story. Her cousin came over to play a few months ago and he brought a backpack of toys with him. He dumped them out on the floor in her playroom to get something or another while they where playing. He had a toy gun that didn't look very real but I guess since the only toy guns she has ever played with were the goofy looking nerf guns she thought it was real. She grabbed her cousin and ran into the living room and told me there was a gun on the floor. Just like I taught her to.

Granted, I don't go leaving shotguns under the couch or anywhere within her reach but I want her to know exactly what to do if she does come across a weapon.

You misunderstand. My kids have all been trained in how to handle a firearm and all have hunted, not only with a shotgun but with big game rifles. The first thing I taught them is the power of a gun by having them shoot a milk jug filled with water.

I just have this one handgun that I keep loaded (it has a trigger lock on it) hidden in my closet in the bedroom and they don't even know I own that gun. They've never even seen it as far as I know. Of course, kids will be kids and snoop, that's why it has a triiger lock on it. It's very well hidden and I keep a very close eye on it to see if it has been disturbed/moved and I don't THINK it ever has?

 

[Gaard]

Originally posted by: OrganizedChaos
my father made sure i knew and understood not to touch his duty belt (regardless of where he left it) when i was a kid.

I teach my kids the same thing. That thing is full of dangerous gadgets...especially the smoke pellets and batarangs.

Oh, and I call it my utility belt, not my duty belt.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Please, this coming from a guy whose country wants to ban Samurai swords in a knee jerk reaction to a few attacks. You live in a nanny state that coddles you and takes away your rights every time a few do stupid things.

Kids die in car crashes everyday in this country and yours I am sure....you ready to ban cars also? Should we? Owning a gun here is a right....owning a car is a privilege...seems to me that privileges should be taken away before rights.

Kids die due to ingesting chemical cleaners because people do not keep them locked up...guess we should ban those too.

where does it stop?

It stops when one group of humans enslaves another for their own good. Stalin has a great many followers these days, even though they'd openly spit at his name along with us, they profess his same ideals as given to them by Karl Marx.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Please, this coming from a guy whose country wants to ban Samurai swords in a knee jerk reaction to a few attacks. You live in a nanny state that coddles you and takes away your rights every time a few do stupid things.

Kids die in car crashes everyday in this country and yours I am sure....you ready to ban cars also? Should we? Owning a gun here is a right....owning a car is a privilege...seems to me that privileges should be taken away before rights.

Kids die due to ingesting chemical cleaners because people do not keep them locked up...guess we should ban those too.

where does it stop?

It stops when one group of humans enslaves another for their own good. Stalin has a great many followers these days, even though they'd openly spit at his name along with us, they profess his same ideals as given to them by Karl Marx.

*sigh* I have to believe that you are actually just being an idiot by choice because the thought of a person being as ignorant as you are makes me sad.

Is it your schools that make you fucked up in the head or is it the environment, i'd think it's the home environment of you since there are people on this forum who are not only sane but even smarter than me, then there are those like you who think that Karl Marx is a hero in the UK, you are obviously deranged and would be better off in a hospital for the fuckheads who don't know their dick from their ear, perhaps that is it, you banged your head against the bowl one time too many?

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Please, this coming from a guy whose country wants to ban Samurai swords in a knee jerk reaction to a few attacks. You live in a nanny state that coddles you and takes away your rights every time a few do stupid things.

Kids die in car crashes everyday in this country and yours I am sure....you ready to ban cars also? Should we? Owning a gun here is a right....owning a car is a privilege...seems to me that privileges should be taken away before rights.

Kids die due to ingesting chemical cleaners because people do not keep them locked up...guess we should ban those too.

where does it stop?

It stops when one group of humans enslaves another for their own good. Stalin has a great many followers these days, even though they'd openly spit at his name along with us, they profess his same ideals as given to them by Karl Marx.

Considering what you want done to Muslims i'd say you have become what you hate.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Self-defense gun kills N. County boy

Wow... just wow. The 'gun' didn't do anything. His brother killed him. Inanimate objects have no will. They just sit there until someone manipulates them. Apparently this AP reporter is not aware of this concept.

Gun advocates are sure fixated about trying to argue this point.

So, the stories reporting a US soldier is killed by a roadside bomb in Iraq are wrong, and should be re-written; the bomb didn't kill them, the person who placed the bomb did.

And if a guy is walking down the street and a piece of a building falls and kills him, the story should not say he was killed by the debris - objects don't kill anyone, you said.

The story should say 'man killed by construction workers who built building'.

The child was killed by the gun. The gun was shot by his brother. His brother had the gun because the mother left it in reach. The mother had the gun because laws allows it. Etc.

It's propagandistic to try to insist on some certain, unnatural phrasing - 'GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE' mantra that Must Be Enforced for 'right thinking'.

It's not designed for accuracy - no one reads the story and thinks the gun shot itself; it's to try to control people's thinking not to make any connection between guns and violence, as if magically, the rates of violence would not be any different whether guns are present or not, so people don't analyze the issue and determine how to reduce such incidents, since there's no solution on the horizon for the negligence, the crimes of passion, and so on that lead to the abuse of guns for violence by otherwise law-abiding citizens.

It's not trying to win the debate, it's trying to prevent the debate. GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE so it's not even worth talking about the tradeoffs of gun laws.

Still... sad. How does a parent leave a loaded weapon in reach of her kids?

IMO, it's wrong to use libertarian ideology on issues like this, and ignore the effects of policies just to say things have to be a free-for-all. However, society's judgement on this issue is heavily in favor of the right to have that shotgun, despite the casualties like this. This seems like an issue where another solution, such as mandatory safety training to purchase the gun, might be helpful.

Translation: Craig will use isolated instances of tragic events for his own political agenda of enslaving people in fear of themselves.
Using the same logic we must outlaw cars and alcohol because of drunk driving.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Wheezer
Please, this coming from a guy whose country wants to ban Samurai swords in a knee jerk reaction to a few attacks. You live in a nanny state that coddles you and takes away your rights every time a few do stupid things.

Kids die in car crashes everyday in this country and yours I am sure....you ready to ban cars also? Should we? Owning a gun here is a right....owning a car is a privilege...seems to me that privileges should be taken away before rights.

Kids die due to ingesting chemical cleaners because people do not keep them locked up...guess we should ban those too.

where does it stop?

It stops when one group of humans enslaves another for their own good. Stalin has a great many followers these days, even though they'd openly spit at his name along with us, they profess his same ideals as given to them by Karl Marx.

*sigh* I have to believe that you are actually just being an idiot by choice because the thought of a person being as ignorant as you are makes me sad.

Is it your schools that make you fucked up in the head or is it the environment

The schools are largely liberal, thanks to their teacher's Union filtering the jobs. They largely (some exceptions) profess the very ideals I oppose. That the answer to everything is more government. To lay baseless claim that I was forged by such ideals is irony.

i'd think it's the home environment of you since there are people on this forum who are not only sane but even smarter than me, then there are those like you who think that Karl Marx is a hero in the UK

As seen by the spread of large socialist governments around the world, wtf makes you think the UK is special? I'm referring to my own country as much as anyone else. The ideals of the communist manifesto are alive and kicking under the Democratic Party. As well as in anyone else whose answer is always to control the people through force.

you are obviously deranged and would be better off in a hospital for the fuckheads who don't know their dick from their ear, perhaps that is it, you banged your head against the bowl one time too many?

You haven't been banned yet for blatant personal attacks against multiple conservatives? Shame you're incapable of arguing the points, but rather excel in this frothing at the mouth over little 'ole me. Flattering, but a waste.

Feel free to tell me government control isn?t the answer for the OP. If you?re capable of spinning it so far. Else, stop wasting our time.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Considering what you want done to Muslims i'd say you have become what you hate.

If you want to make a new topic, feel free to do so. In another topic.

 

[StageLeft]

We already know more guns intended for such things kill family members through accidents than criminals.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Nebor
http://www.stltoday.com/stltod...900668E41?OpenDocument

Self-defense gun kills N. County boy, 3
By David Hunn
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
02/05/2007

A shotgun that an Edmundson woman kept for self-protection killed her younger child Sunday -- and police say that her older child pulled the trigger.

The dead child was identified as 3-year-old Benjamin Gollihur. Police say the shotgun blast caught him in the back at 12:25 p.m. in the family home, in the 4300 block of Heath Street.

Police say the victim's older brother, an 8-year-old boy, fired the weapon -- an 18 1/2-inch, pistol-grip, 12-gauge Mossberg shotgun.

Police say the mother of the boys was in the house with a man at the time but was in a different room. Edmundson Police Chief Donald Kraher said the weapon had been kept beneath a couch.

Police declined to identify the mother. But neighbors say she is Rita Gollihur, a full-time college student. The neightbors say she told them that she was being stalked by a fellow student and kept the weapon for self-protection.

The 8-year-old attends Holy Trinity Catholic School at 10901 St. Henry Lane in St. Ann. This morning, principal Margaret Ahle described the 8-year-old as "just the gentlest, sweetest child." Ahle said the boy had been very protective of his younger brother.

The pastor of Holy Trinity, the Rev. John Leykam, said, "This mother sacrificed anything and everything for her kids." He added, "This is a painful tragedy that we all share in."

The school has about 400 pupils. Through a phone tree set-up, parents of all pupils got the word Sunday night about the shooting. The achdiocese dispatched counselors to the school today.

Leykam said, "People are reaching out, asking what they can do."

Police said today that they had yet to talk to the mother or the 8-year-old.

The shooting was the second within a week in which an area child killed another.

Early on Jan. 29, a young boy in an apartment in Venice picked up a revolver and fired a shot that hit 2-year-old Timberlyn Terrell in the head. She died the next day at Cardinal Glennon Children's Medical Center in St. Louis.

In that case, authorities have charged the revolver's owner -- Anthony Wise, who has a drug-dealing record and is the ex-boyfriend of the victim's mother, Kimberly Terrell.

Very sad. When can we get some common sense gun control in this country? How many children have to die?

Control your guns! Don't leave them loaded where kids can get hold of them.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
As much as you would like to make it about gun laws, its not. It's responsible parenting at fault.

What purpose could this woman possibly have for owning a pump action assault style automatic shotgun?

:laugh:

Are you sure you didnt mean to post this bit of comedy in OT?

Pump action automatic shotgun. Thats awesome. Whats next? Automatic stick shift AWD rear wheel cars?

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: BurningDog

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
As much as you would like to make it about gun laws, its not. It's responsible parenting at fault.

What purpose could this woman possibly have for owning a pump action assault style automatic shotgun?

Wow, think you could have loaded that up with any more scary adjectives? How can something be pump action and automatic? The type of weapon had nothing to do with it. If it was a single shot crack barrel shotgun, the outcome would be the same.

The article mentions what her purpose was.

Common sense parenting is what's needed. Kids and guns don't mix.

Jesus motherfucking christ, not only didn't he argue for gun restrictions but YOU had to take his parody one step further and ACTUALLY MEAN IT.

That makes you kinda extra stupid, doesn't it?

Personally, a guy like you with a gun would make me wish i had a fucking tank to keep my kids in when we're in the US.

Please, this coming from a guy whose country wants to ban Samurai swords in a knee jerk reaction to a few attacks. You live in a nanny state that coddles you and takes away your rights every time a few do stupid things.

Kids die in car crashes everyday in this country and yours I am sure....you ready to ban cars also? Should we? Owning a gun here is a right....owning a car is a privilege...seems to me that privileges should be taken away before rights.

Kids die due to ingesting chemical cleaners because people do not keep them locked up...guess we should ban those too.

where does it stop?

oh shut the fuck up, you built yourself a strawman that you are now arguing against, none of the things you are arguing against are things i EVER mentioned.

My fucking point was that he is NOT arguing for gun restrictions and neither am i, i never have been, EVER even though some people don't get that.

Nebor must be laughing his arse of right now... cheers Nebor. Well done.

So...can either one of you clarify this statement:

Very sad. When can we get some common sense gun control in this country? How many children have to die?

is this for better individual responsibility or more government control?

'cause if you are not for more government restrictions, then you are for leaving it to the individuals.....can't have it both ways....let us know what the point is.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
As much as you would like to make it about gun laws, its not. It's responsible parenting at fault.

What purpose could this woman possibly have for owning a pump action assault style automatic shotgun?

:laugh:

Are you sure you didnt mean to post this bit of comedy in OT?

Pump action automatic shotgun. Thats awesome. Whats next? Automatic stick shift AWD rear wheel cars?

Looks like more news is developing in this story. The shotgun has a barrel shroud. I think that's a shoulder thingie that comes up. They're commonly found on assault style machine gun weapons.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield

Originally posted by: BurningDog

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
As much as you would like to make it about gun laws, its not. It's responsible parenting at fault.

What purpose could this woman possibly have for owning a pump action assault style automatic shotgun?

Wow, think you could have loaded that up with any more scary adjectives? How can something be pump action and automatic? The type of weapon had nothing to do with it. If it was a single shot crack barrel shotgun, the outcome would be the same.

The article mentions what her purpose was.

Common sense parenting is what's needed. Kids and guns don't mix.

Jesus motherfucking christ, not only didn't he argue for gun restrictions but YOU had to take his parody one step further and ACTUALLY MEAN IT.

That makes you kinda extra stupid, doesn't it?

Personally, a guy like you with a gun would make me wish i had a fucking tank to keep my kids in when we're in the US.

Please, this coming from a guy whose country wants to ban Samurai swords in a knee jerk reaction to a few attacks. You live in a nanny state that coddles you and takes away your rights every time a few do stupid things.

Kids die in car crashes everyday in this country and yours I am sure....you ready to ban cars also? Should we? Owning a gun here is a right....owning a car is a privilege...seems to me that privileges should be taken away before rights.

Kids die due to ingesting chemical cleaners because people do not keep them locked up...guess we should ban those too.

where does it stop?

oh shut the fuck up, you built yourself a strawman that you are now arguing against, none of the things you are arguing against are things i EVER mentioned.

My fucking point was that he is NOT arguing for gun restrictions and neither am i, i never have been, EVER even though some people don't get that.

Nebor must be laughing his arse of right now... cheers Nebor. Well done.

So...can either one of you clarify this statement:

Very sad. When can we get some common sense gun control in this country? How many children have to die?

is this for better individual responsibility or more government control?

'cause if you are not for more government restrictions, then you are for leaving it to the individuals.....can't have it both ways....let us know what the point is.

Click on his author icon and read through what he as posted, he believes that everyone, including the criminally insane has a right to bear arms.

I can clarify that statement as sarcasm, get it?

It was very well done too, I'd be impressed but i actually think that Nebor is fairly daft and just does these intelligent sarcasms because there are those like you who don't get it and that makes it kind of funny.

 

[rchiu]

Heh, you pro-gun people having fun with your parody using a mother who just had her eight year old killing her three year old? How typical of you with your disregard and disrespectful of human life.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, you pro-gun people having fun with your parody using a mother who just had her eight year old killing her three year old? How typical of you with your disregard and disrespectful of human life.

Yup. We're truly monsters. :laugh:

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, you pro-gun people having fun with your parody using a mother who just had her eight year old killing her three year old? How typical of you with your disregard and disrespectful of human life.

Yup. We're truly monsters. :laugh:

Naa, just people with little class.....

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
As much as you would like to make it about gun laws, its not. It's responsible parenting at fault.

What purpose could this woman possibly have for owning a pump action assault style automatic shotgun?

What right do you have to tell her she can't have one? She's stupid for not getting a gun lock and putting it away where they couldn't use it. Stupid people make stupid decisions every day, including drunk driving, and driving on the cell phone. Should we remove all possibility of those two also?

The same right we have to limit or prevent (or at least make illegal) to cook meth in her basement, store hazardous material over the stove, and pick up her dogs crap. All put other people at risk.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, you pro-gun people having fun with your parody using a mother who just had her eight year old killing her three year old? How typical of you with your disregard and disrespectful of human life.

How dare you you pro-automobile types allow the daily carnage of children on the streets. How typical of you with your disregard and disrespectful of human life.


edit:

Naa, just people with little class.....

There is no class in being a stupid, fearful authoritarian puppet moron.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: rchiu
Heh, you pro-gun people having fun with your parody using a mother who just had her eight year old killing her three year old? How typical of you with your disregard and disrespectful of human life.

How dare you you pro-automobile types allow the daily carnage of children on the streets. How typical of you with your disregard and disrespectful of human life.


edit:

Naa, just people with little class.....

There is no class in being a stupid, fearful authoritarian puppet moron.

Show me an eight year old drove and kill a three year old with a car and I will agree with your statement.