Seems blatant to me that progressives want control over HC, not HC for everyone.

Anarchist420

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Feb 13, 2010
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Ted Kennedy, one of the worst tax creating, tax evading (conservatives should feel free to evade taxes, but if some asshole like Ted Kennedy creates a tax, then they should pay it just like they want everyone else to) elitist progressives to ever live, pushed the HMO Act through knowing that it would raise costs, which it did. When the Federal Government mandated that insurance cover all medical costs, rather than letting true insurance (i.e., coverage for catastrophic events only) exist, that greatly increased the cost of health care. It also increased administrative costs (doctors would charge less for general check-ups, etc, etc). If you were to pay just 1k/yr for health insurance that covered only emergencies, then health insurance costs and the cost of health care in general would go down. But the progressives don't want that because they want to control health care. If they really wanted health care for more people, then they'd support deregulation, as it has proven that the regulations have sent health care costs through the roof.

Then, you have the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, which further raised the costs of health care and reduced individual choice. It was nothing more than corporate welfare, where it intended to destroy the remaining remnants of the free market. Who supported the IRC of 1954? Progressive Eastern Establishment Neocon Nazifuckhead Rockefeller Republicans like Eisenhower who want corporate control, NWO-style, over everything. If there were no federal mandates that insurance companies covered everything, then the costs would go down, because you could pay out of a pocket at a discount for small things plus with a personal tax deduction, then you could pay less for insurance plus with a personal tax deduction.

Another example of a progressive wanting control, rather than Health Care for everyone is Krugman, someone that I assume has an elitist agenda. He writes:
About that advisory board: We have to do something about healthcare costs, which means that we have to find a way to start saying no. In particular, given continuing medical innovation, we can't maintain a system in which Medicare essentially pays for anything a doctor recommends. And that's especially true when that blank-check approach is combined with a system that gives doctors and hospitals — who aren't saints — a strong financial incentive to engage in excessive care. …

[T]he point is that choices must be made; one way or another, government spending on healthcare must be limited.
(source: http://mises.org/daily/5359/The-Medical-Marketplace-Free-and-Unfree)

What allows progressives like Krugman and Kennedy to be popular among the poor is the ignorance of their followers. If their followers knew they were elitists who really wanted to control system, rather than to give to everyone, then how many followers would they have?

I'd guess not many, and they'd be out of power or whatever if the people were to ever realize that all most progressives do is prey on mass ignorance.
 

Macamus Prime

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Feb 24, 2011
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Ted Kennedy didn't declare war on the lower classes.

Conservatives want to punish, harm and wipe out the lower classes.
 

Hayabusa Rider

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Jan 26, 2000
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Ted Kennedy didn't declare war on the lower classes.

Conservatives want to punish, harm and wipe out the lower classes.

While liberals want to make them slaves to government. Tit for tat you know.

Control IS the issue here, and the government screws things up nicely. You know that great health care law? Why did the Democrats deliberately make it so that a couple who opt for early retirement and earning up to 64k have free care (in the sense it costs them not one cent) through medicaid? Did they think that the millions who can sign up for that would be free?

http://www.newser.com/article/d9o0k...pens-medicaid-to-some-making-up-to-64000.html

So why did you omit that little tidbit?
 

Hayabusa Rider

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"Progressives" are all about control. You're just finding this out now?

The irksome thing is that there are some Progressives on this board who I understand and would use government to correct things which they perceive as wrong. I understand their philosophical position although I may not agree with the means, however the difference between them and some others is that they understand there are places that government ought not to go and their concern for others overrides party affiliation.

On the other hand we have certain hacks who are complete apologists for their party and every time they have a criticism for something which supposedly goes against their core values it comes out as "well Dem X did this, but at least THEY AREN'T FILTHY REPUBLICAN PIGS". "You know Johnny did punch ten kids in the nose, but at least he didn't pull a Columbine" attitude.

The problem with labels is that they tend to apply too broadly and they aren't always appropriate. I have my "scoundrel" bin, which I place people but that is reserved for "special" folk.
 

a777pilot

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Apr 26, 2011
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BoboCare was and is all about power. Who has it and who wants it. Power.....money and control. It has never been about actual health care for the American people....Only power!

Over 2000 pages of words. Over one trillion dollars of money we don't have. Has it produced one more hospital? Has it produced one more doctor or nurse?

Keep in mind that this stupidity can be ended. What this country needs is a new President that will on his or her first day in office grant every American citizen a waiver from participating in this new law. If a waver for one is legal, a waver for all is too.
 

fskimospy

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Mar 10, 2006
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I have to say I always get a kick out of Anarchist420 complaining about other people's ignorance and stupidity.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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BoboCare was and is all about power. Who has it and who wants it. Power.....money and control. It has never been about actual health care for the American people....Only power!

Over 2000 pages of words. Over one trillion dollars of money we don't have. Has it produced one more hospital? Has it produced one more doctor or nurse?

Keep in mind that this stupidity can be ended. What this country needs is a new President that will on his or her first day in office grant every American citizen a waiver from participating in this new law. If a waver for one is legal, a waver for all is too.

It didn't have to be 2000+ plus pages, The repubs are responsible for the messed up parts of the bill, more so than the dems.
 

werepossum

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Jul 10, 2006
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By driving them into a river and leaving them for dead? That type of wiping out?
LOL! +1

Progressives want control over EVERYTHING. That does not mean they don't want health care for everyone, it just means they are convinced that government best knows how to provide everything for everyone.
 

werepossum

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Jul 10, 2006
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It didn't have to be 2000+ plus pages, The repubs are responsible for the messed up parts of the bill, more so than the dems.
Outside of Vitter's amendment for saving the tatas, Republicans had zero input into the bill. It was written 100% by Democrats (or more likely, by Democrat-approved lobbyists) behind closed doors, and ONLY the Vitter amendment was adopted or really even considered. Blaming Republicans for anything beyond Vitter's amendment is a steaming pile of partisan fail.
 

Hayabusa Rider

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Jan 26, 2000
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It didn't have to be 2000+ plus pages, The repubs are responsible for the messed up parts of the bill, more so than the dems.

Who is responsible for this messed up part? The problem is that this exists at all in it's current form. Instead of finding out what is needed, how health care can be actually improved rather than shuffling costs and control around, what options are compatible with our economy and the benefits and liabilities of each, we had the Dems decide to screw health care and make it a battle with the Republican who of course did what they did. When idiots are contested by morons this is what we get.

This whole thing should be scrapped and done properly. But then again as I said elsewhere DC can't tell the truth even to get what it says it wants.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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Outside of Vitter's amendment for saving the tatas, Republicans had zero input into the bill. It was written 100% by Democrats (or more likely, by Democrat-approved lobbyists) behind closed doors, and ONLY the Vitter amendment was adopted or really even considered. Blaming Republicans for anything beyond Vitter's amendment is a steaming pile of partisan fail.

The only fail is the above post if you truly beleive this is the bill dems wanted. They wanted single payer\Medicare for all. Maybe you missed all the outrage from the right while this was being drafted. Was your power out for about 6 months?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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Who is responsible for this messed up part? The problem is that this exists at all in it's current form. Instead of finding out what is needed, how health care can be actually improved rather than shuffling costs and control around, what options are compatible with our economy and the benefits and liabilities of each, we had the Dems decide to screw health care and make it a battle with the Republican who of course did what they did. When idiots are contested by morons this is what we get.

This whole thing should be scrapped and done properly. But then again as I said elsewhere DC can't tell the truth even to get what it says it wants.

I somewhat agree, but with the repubs controlling the House now, it'd never go anywhere.

It's far from perfect, but it's better than before. It needs alot of improvements though.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
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It didn't have to be 2000+ plus pages, The repubs are responsible for the messed up parts of the bill, more so than the dems.

You're fucking kidding me right? The D's bragged the whole time that they didn't need the R's at all to pass it. That they were only doing so out of the kindness of their hearts. So now I'm supposed to believe that the R's fucked it all up? If that's the case, it's only because the D's let it happen.
 

MovingTarget

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Jun 22, 2003
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The only fail is the above post if you truly beleive this is the bill dems wanted. They wanted single payer\Medicare for all. Maybe you missed all the outrage from the right while this was being drafted. Was your power out for about 6 months?

Not to mention that many of the ideas implemented in this bill were from the old Republican counterproposal to "Hillarycare". They are indeed Republican ideas. The Democrats used them so as to make it palatable to the other side and get something through. Its a piss-poor bill, but it is better than the status quo.

And, you know, words are hard. Especially pages of words. Good luck trying to implement a massive program without getting a handle on the complexity of what they were trying to do. But thats hard too, so...ummm... Bobocare! Death panels! Socialism! Wharrgarbl!!!
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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The only fail is the above post if you truly beleive this is the bill dems wanted. They wanted single payer\Medicare for all. Maybe you missed all the outrage from the right while this was being drafted. Was your power out for about 6 months?
This is the bill that the Dems crafted when they had the power to pass anything without any help from Republicans. Saying that it's not the bill they wanted is therefore incorrect; at most you could say it's not the bill that the more progressive Democrats wanted.
 

matt0611

Golden Member
Oct 22, 2010
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LOL! +1

Progressives want control over EVERYTHING. That does not mean they don't want health care for everyone, it just means they are convinced that government best knows how to provide everything for everyone.

I can admit that liberals (usually) have good intentions with their laws and their desire for more control. The problem is that they think with their hearts and not with their mind IMO.

They usually don't look much past what can be immediately seen of the consequences of their policies and only look to the surface.
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
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This is the bill that the Dems crafted when they had the power to pass anything without any help from Republicans. Saying that it's not the bill they wanted is therefore incorrect; at most you could say it's not the bill that the more progressive Democrats wanted.

Guess you did have a power outage, you forgot about the filibuster abuse as well. :)
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
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Ted Kennedy didn't declare war on the lower classes.

Conservatives want to punish, harm and wipe out the lower classes.

Not true, Conservatives want to wipe out the middle class. They want the lower classes as big as possible to maximize the pool of cheap labor.