Seeking advice from computer engineers/EE or engineering students, or college people in general

[Gerbil333]

I've been messing with computers since I was two years old. Back then I was on a Commodore 64 in my fathers lap. Like nearly everyone else here, I'm one of those family members/friends who builds and repairs computers for everyone. It's easily my favorite thing to do, and I've always planned on going into some kind career in the computer industry.

I'm 17 and nearing the end of my junior year of high school. For the past year I?ve been wondering if I'm going to be capable of handling a major in such computer engineering or EE, or any highly technical computer field. I?m looking for input to determine if I?ll be able to do it, or if I should consider less mathematical fields.

Lots of people seem to say high school has little to do with college. Is that really true? I think one of my greatest concerns is the fact that I've strayed away from the computer science courses. I hated the teacher, I wasn't learning anything, and I felt like it was a waste of my time. My freshman year I took a semester of QBasic and I was the best programmer out of all the students enrolled in QBasic that semester, but mostly because I put the most effort into what I did. QBasic was stupidly simple, and I went far beyond what the teacher required. My sophomore year I took C++ I with my best friend, who is nearly a genius, and we finished the class with equal scores and programs that topped all other C++ I students for the year (again). In 2nd semester last year, my computer science teacher talked us into taking "Computer Science Applications.? He loaned two of the school?s Palm m130's for the semester and we were supposed to "mess with them" (those were his words ).

At the end of that Palm Pilot class, I'd had enough. The CS teacher didn't even know what an AGP slot was! All he knew was a bit of programming from each language he "taught" (Java, html, QBasic, C++, and then the higher languages). Most students knew more than he did! Since he was handing us book programming books and having us do the assignments written in the books, I decided that there was absolutely no point in continuing his classes and putting up with all of his pointless assignments. If I wanted to follow a programming book, I?d do it at home on a computer more reliable than those Dells that insisted on crashing at least once a week. There was a lot more to my decision to quit CS than that, but I've already gone too far off topic.

Instead of the irritating "computer science" classes, I had to fill up my junior year schedule with Human Anatomy, which I have no interest in at all, and a low weight Contemporary Issues class since I was taking so many other difficult classes.

Back to my questions . . .

What does it take to be successful, particularly in college, in computer engineering or EE? Will it affect me that I learned next to nothing in computer science in high school? How mathematically inclined were you in high school? What are typical SAT and ACT scores for people in this field?

I finished trigonometry last semester with a 99%, and I'm pulling a 97% right now in Math Analysis (precalc). I'll be taking calculus next year, and that will be the end of my high school math courses. Despite my high grades and having taken the most advanced mathematics courses my high school offers, I don't think I'm very mathematically inclined. I have to put a lot of effort into my work, whereas my girlfriend is just as intelligent, if not smarter as I am, and she sometimes barely passes the same math classes because she doesn't try. She hates math, but is probably equivalently capable of it as myself. To prove that, she has A's in everything else, and she scores about the same as I do on state tests and the SAT. Also, my best friend can speed through math assignments, and all subjects for that matter, and still outscore me. Do I need to possess that kind of ability to do well in engineering? I know it would help, but could I still pull A?s-B?s and have a complete understanding of what I'm doing even though I have to try much harder to understand?

Finally, I?m not really set on anything, other than going into the computer industry in general. Pay isn?t important to me as long as I can support a family and make ends meet. I?d much rather enjoy what I?m doing. That?s why I?m trying to figure things out now ? I want to do this, but I have no idea if I can.

 

[Gnurb]

you'll be fine.

 

[TuxDave]

It doesn't matter how many computer programming languages you know. If you have a programming mindset to think things logically (and sometimes out of the box), then you will survive the beginning of Computer Science. If you're strong in mathematics and learning new equations and methodologies of solving them do not intimidate you, you'll survive the beginning of EECS. Surviving the last half is dependent if you can find a specific area that you have passion for. You have the technical skills, it's now more of a question whether or not you want to do it.

 

[zener]

My background is EE. Based on my 20 + years of experience as an EE engineer and software engineer in aerospace, the following finding will help you to decide :
1. Hardware engineer's pay is usually less than software engineer with EE background.
2. Software engineer get involved heavily with hardware, specially if you are doing real-time, embedded system development.
3. The life cycle of the hardware design is usually shorter than the software part. Thus your job lasts longer and it is easier to get one from other companies (based on current demands).

 

[QueHuong]

I think you'll do ok. But...the hardware information on sites like AT, etc has nothing to do with Computer Engineering or EE though. A lot of people who are good with computers, by that I mean IT stuff, think they'll do well in engineering then get their butts kicked - that's like a guy who rices his car going into mechanical engineering because he's "knows a lot about cars". You'll find very little correlation between everyday computer knowledge and CE.

However, you sound like you realize that. Engineering is basically math and physics. I'm sure you'll do ok or well in math - for most people it's not a subject that people can breeze through (talking about precalc and above) so don't freak out because you had to study your ass off to do well in your classes. The big thing I've noticed from hs to college is that, obviously, college is much harder. But at the same time, if you're dedicated, you will be forced to step up. Although college engineering is much harder than anything in highschool, you're forced to study more and efficiently so you'll probably end up doing ok. Then keep in mind only in engineering can you get a B by scoring a 70% on a test because a lot of people will do poorly and curves are high. Expect to get a good mix of Bs and As if your innate math abilities is slightly above average and you study hard. And I'm going to emphasize that engineering requires you to study very hard regardless of how smart you are if you want to do well.


As for your last concern, an engineering degree is very versatile. Other than becoming an engineer, your major will prepare you for a job as an actuary (something I'm thinking of), patent law, or business management. The program is basically 4-6 years of teaching you how to think analytically and critically and these are the skills you will need. I can't think of any other undergrad degrees that will open doors to as many high paying and respectable jobs.

 

[The Wildcard]

The programming experience is a big plus for you in surviving computer engineering. But it's less important for electrical engineering.

But what is common to both electrical and computer engineering is physics, mainly circuits and stuff. Like what mindstorm said, many people make the mistake at thinking computer engineering has to do with putting comp parts together. In reality you are designing those comp parts, so you gotta know about circuit design and analysis, etc, etc.

 

[Mday]

Originally posted by: zener
My background is EE. Based on my 20 + years of experience as an EE engineer and software engineer in aerospace, the following finding will help you to decide :
1. Hardware engineer's pay is usually less than software engineer with EE background.
2. Software engineer get involved heavily with hardware, specially if you are doing real-time, embedded system development.
3. The life cycle of the hardware design is usually shorter than the software part. Thus your job lasts longer and it is easier to get one from other companies (based on current demands).

he's trying to say embedded systems is where the money is at. (where software meets hardware, hardcore, like sex)

 

[beer]

I'd like to second the statement that compE has nothing to do with PC assembly. I bet a few of my professors don't know what an AGP slot is and they are nonetheless brilliant nonetheless.

Engineering is all math + work ethic. Can't have one without the other. If you suck at math, you'll fail. If you smoke weed all day like two of my (EE) roommates, you'll fail.

 

[Svnla]

The first year or two of college will be general classes. You will study your "major" classes in junior and senior years. Why don't you take a class or two in computerE or EE and see if you like it or not. If you do well, great. If not, you can always change your major. Good luck.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Svnla
The first year or two of college will be general classes. You will study your "major" classes in junior and senior years. Why don't you take a class or two in computerE or EE and see if you like it or not. If you do well, great. If not, you can always change your major. Good luck.

That's not really true, it depends where you go. We started our real engineering classes freshman year. We didn't have many required humanities/social-science courses.

 

[XZeroII]

You will do great. Trust me, if people like you described can get through college, then so can you. If you actually try in college, you will have no problems whatsoever.

 

[virtuamike]

If you're willing to work through it then you'll be ok. People with natural math skills have an easier time but it doesn't excuse them from doing the work once they get into college. I finished calculus my junior year, no math senior year, near perfect math scores on all assessment tests (SAT, AP, ACT, etc). I barely passed one of my college math classes because even though I could set curve on midterms and finals, I never turned in HW or showed up for quizzes. Moral of the story: work ethic is just as if not more important as brains in college.

And no, hardware knowledge has absolutely nothing to do with sucess in CS or EE. People that think logically and are willing to put time/effort into seeing things through to the end will pass, those that can't/won't will fail, simple as that.

 

[Svnla]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Svnla
The first year or two of college will be general classes. You will study your "major" classes in junior and senior years. Why don't you take a class or two in computerE or EE and see if you like it or not. If you do well, great. If not, you can always change your major. Good luck.

That's not really true, it depends where you go. We started our real engineering classes freshman year. We didn't have many required humanities/social-science courses.

I am suprise to hear that. Most of the schools that I know of require general classes in the first year or two. Of course, there are some classes in your minor but just beginning classes. That's why I was able to switch from pure computer science to business/computer science. What school did you go to?

 

[yllus]

Lots of people seem to say high school has little to do with college. Is that really true?

Entirely dependent on your high school experience. In regards to instructors, your professors are likely going to be at least minimally skilled in the narrow spectrum they'll be lecturing you upon.

What does it take to be successful, particularly in college, in computer engineering or EE?

The key and goal in North American-style educations in CE and EE, in my opinion, is to instill a core base of knowledge in the fundamentals while - and this is the important part - molding the student into a person capable of adapting that knowledge to new and greatly varying situations. Flexibility, the ability to apply learned knowledge and top-notch problem solving skills applicable to almost any situation within your given sphere of learning should be your primary goals.

Again IMO, I think the trend of globalization is going to make the differences between quality educations and just so-so educations very, very obvious. While anyone can be a code monkey, there is still but a select few who are capable of imagining, selecting and putting a solution into implementation properly (read: on time, on budget and actually address the problem).

Will it affect me that I learned next to nothing in computer science in high school?

You'll start off at an equal footing with most of your peers, then. Not a problem. You should note that being able to build a PC isn't a career skill to rely upon, unless you fancy being a Best Buy service technician for the rest of your life.

How mathematically inclined were you in high school?

Not especially inclined, but then again I didn't go into this to become a nerdy math major. Comp Sci and the like often narrow math down into terms of logic. If you're feeling ambitious, pick up a beginner level text on discrete mathematics.

 

[Gerbil333]

To all of you:

I do realize that engineering has practically nothing to do with building computers and the random hardware skills I currently have. The logic of circuits is intriguing to me, and I want to be involved in the creation of new hardware and electronics.

I'm good at thinking logically, and I have a very good work ethic now. I'm not one to go out and party. I plan on maintaining my work ethic when I go to college.

 

[jteef]

its good that you're going to take calculus in high school...its the biggest leap in concepts & problem solving ability you will experience in math. If it doesn't overwhelm you you'll do fine. I had never even heard of a derivative until 8am on my first day of class at college.

i'd call ~700 a "good" sat math score

 

[Gerbil333]

That's bad.

Next year I'll be taking calculus, chem 303, physics, AP biology, and Western Civilization I & II. The Western Civ. classes are college credit courses taught by a very intelligent teacher who actually TEACHES high school. His classes are enjoyable but at the same time he actually runs them just like he runs the night classes he teaches at the local community college: lots of assignments and learning going on. My schedule seems like it will be difficult, but only the calculus and Wester Civ classes should be challenging. The other courses are supposedly easy due to the instructors slacking off.

My goal has been to learn as much now as possible so I'll have a strong foundation of knowledge when I get to college.

 

[jaydee]

A 700 math may be a "good score", but it's not necessary to succeed. I scored a 620 and got A's in Calc I and II a B in Calc III and haven't gotten my grades back yet for Diff EQ's. What influences your grades as much as anything else is the professor, which you obviously can't take into account at this point.

fairly smart + good work ethic > very smart + no work ethic

Remember that. I've seen it time after time.

 

[Gerbil333]

Alright, that's good to hear

I took the ACT test last Saturday. I know the SAT is the more widely accepted test, but around here (the midwest), the ACT is more common. I'm anxious to see the results.

 

[Oscar1613]

Originally posted by: MindStorm
Then keep in mind only in engineering can you get a B by scoring a 70% on a test because a lot of people will do poorly and curves are high.

thats high? on one of my physics I tests i got a 32% B :Q

 

[bonkers325]

high school stuff is retaught in college. they make sure you know the basics before you move on. the only thing high school is useful for is good times and a diploma.

engineering is hard, no matter which engineering major you are in. if you dont like math, dont be an engineer. if u dont like problem solving, dont be an engineer. if u dont like thinking in general, dont be an engineer.

 

[abracadabra1]

Originally posted by: jaydee

fairly smart + good work ethic > very smart + no work ethic

Remember that. I've seen it time after time.

I second that opinion

 

[abracadabra1]

Originally posted by: bonkers325
high school stuff is retaught in college. they make sure you know the basics before you move on. the only thing high school is useful for is good times and a diploma.

engineering is hard, no matter which engineering major you are in. if you dont like math, dont be an engineer. if u dont like problem solving, dont be an engineer. if u dont like thinking in general, dont be an engineer.

Some other real good points here. I've found that success in EE is nearly 95% work ethic and 5% aptitude (arbitrary values, but you get the point). EE is a damn hard field of study. It's complex and unlike anything you've ever seen or experienced in high school. This same characteristic is what makes it interesting and stimulating.

I am a struggling EE major and attend a school where although engineering is its highpoint, many students choose liberal arts majors so that they can graduate with higher GPAs and spend less time doing work. Please understand this is not a blanket statement about liberal arts majors, rather an observation of my school. I would much rather have a GPA that is .5 lower as an EE major than have one that is .5 higher as a liberal arts major. Technical majors really help to expand and broaden your ability to logically think and reason.

 

[Afro000Dude]

This may sound like a dumb question, but can someone explain to me the difference between CS, CE, and EE?

CS = coding?
CE = designing circuits and components?
EE = ?

All seems a bit confusing to me. Thanks!

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Afro000Dude
This may sound like a dumb question, but can someone explain to me the difference between CS, CE, and EE?

CS = coding?
CE = designing circuits and components?
EE = ?

All seems a bit confusing to me. Thanks!

CS = coding, theory
CE = designing circuits, components, coding, theory
EE - designing circuits/components, materials, electromagnetics, photonics, signal processing, etc. (can include coding). EE is very broad, with fields such as CompE, Optical Engineering, etc. all sub-groups of it.