SED: abandoned tech?

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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This is very disappointing if true. Can't we all just get along? (patents....)

http://www.behardware.com/news/8559/sed-is-the-end-in-sight.html

Finally, Display Monitor insists on the fact that Canon isn't a monitor manufacturer and that they will be alone with this technology facing actors with strong networks and a mature technology. According to the magazine, the battle is already lost. It predicts that the manufacturer will abandon soon SED and will motivate this choice by the impossibility to find an agreement with Nano-Proprietary.

02/05/07 UPDATE: Canon : yes, we will launch SED !
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Hate to be the bringer of the bad news. They must have been having other problems with SEDs anyway, they could barely show any demos of it (all the demos they have shown showed a flickery screen). It was just getting pushed farther and farther away and Toshiba/Canon just don't seem like monitor companies. It's pretty hard to believe Nano-Proprietary and the joint venture couldn't work out something. Nano would be getting loads of cash and they'd have to be like Rambus to ditch an opportunity like this...I don't understand who else would be licensing their tech anyway, what a stupid decision.

Just look at the grim history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-conduction_electron-emitter_display#History

Wait for OLEDs, you'll be impressed. With LG Philips LCD, Samsung, and Chi Mei behind OLEDs there's no doubt they'll come to market. And Samsung apparently has a tech called FED (like SED) but I don't know if it'll ever see the light of day in big-screen TVs.

SED really has nothing on AM (active matrix) OLED anyway. SED will still flicker, the image won't scale or have a nice soft effect like a CRT. It only achieves a brightness level that many LCDs on the market today already achieve. You can get higher density with OLEDs and probably lower prices too. Additionally there will be a lot more competition in the OLED market with all the usual LCD suspects battling it out. I really doubt that we have anything to worry about. Using SED in computer monitors was a pipe dream due to too big of a pixel size. OLEDs are boasting an even higher contrast (i.e. Sony's 1000000:1). Still, not having another competing technology still isn't a good thing.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Horrible news. But more likely than not it's a manufacturing cost and thus retail price issue just like they say. Hell people already whine about $600+ displays which is going to kill IPS very shortly. No way would they fork over even more for SED. Soon we'll all be using cheap TN's and maybe VA's.



 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,660
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Sucks to hear it. :( I had high hopes for these. Although as Zebo said, I didn't expect them to a good business venture given that their main advantage would have been the image quality, something that most people aren't willing to pay extra for. OLEDs seem to have more of a future given that they can be printed on flexible surfaces.
 

kmmatney

Diamond Member
Jun 19, 2000
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I never had high hopes for this technology. I'm not sure anything that uses carbon nanotubes (or diamond dust) wil be ready for the prime-time market anytime soon. OLED displays do have a lot of upside, and hopefully will be available soon.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
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Originally posted by: Zebo

Yeah right. I guess you dont' see a problem with the disgustingly gigantic pixels plasmas have on someones desktop? Think before you post.
I love completely uninformed people telling others to "think before posting." Zebo, I suggest you take your own advise and read up on the subject before talking smack. The early 32" SED displays had a MASSIVE 720p resolution (but that was just a demo) and later on in October 2006 Toshiba and Canon announced they would actually be releasing a 55" SED set in 2007 (it now seems to be a 50" model by the END of 2007). I don't know about you, but a 55"/50" monitor is WAY too big for my desktop and the rest of 99.999% of the population. SED would be great for a desktop display (if they could get it in teh 20"-30" size range), but that doesn't seem to be the market Canon is after. SED is really competing against plasma for the crown of ultimate HDTV. Until recently, is was really a toss up for what was the best HDTV. Some people said plasma, some preferred LCDs for their resolution. However, since CES 2007 Pioneer shocked and amazed audiences with their new plasma that they will be releasing in the summer of 2007. The display was so amazing, people have been suggesting that SED will be DOA even before hitting the market. Yeah, it was THAT good. It will be a full 1080p with blacks so black, they almost blend in with Pioneer's glossy black frame. The thing is simply AMAZING! Not to mention Canon has been paper launching SED since, well, forever. This may very well be a tech that never came to be, and/or may be just too little too late from Canon. If you are waiting on SED, check out Pioneer's new plasma this summer. The only question is, how much? Which is a pretty big question. But we'll see.

And Zebo, think before you post.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Zebo

Yeah right. I guess you dont' see a problem with the disgustingly gigantic pixels plasmas have on someones desktop? Think before you post.
I love completely uninformed people telling others to "think before posting." Zebo, I suggest you take your own advise and read up on the subject before talking smack. The early 32" SED displays had a MASSIVE 720p resolution (but that was just a demo) and later on in October 2006 Toshiba and Canon announced they would actually be releasing a 55" SED set in 2007 (it now seems to be a 50" model by the END of 2007). I don't know about you, but a 55"/50" monitor is WAY too big for my desktop and the rest of 99.999% of the population. SED would be great for a desktop display (if they could get it in teh 20"-30" size range), but that doesn't seem to be the market Canon is after. SED is really competing against plasma for the crown of ultimate HDTV. Until recently, is was really a toss up for what was the best HDTV. Some people said plasma, some preferred LCDs for their resolution. However, since CES 2007 Pioneer shocked and amazed audiences with their new plasma that they will be releasing in the summer of 2007. The display was so amazing, people have been suggesting that SED will be DOA even before hitting the market. Yeah, it was THAT good. It will be a full 1080p with blacks so black, they almost blend in with Pioneer's glossy black frame. The thing is simply AMAZING! Not to mention Canon has been paper launching SED since, well, forever. This may very well be a tech that never came to be, and/or may be just too little too late from Canon. If you are waiting on SED, check out Pioneer's new plasma this summer. The only question is, how much? Which is a pretty big question. But we'll see.

And Zebo, think before you post.

Yea sure. 36" and 1080p was demo'd here:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/593-...-encounters-of-the-third-kind-sed.html
That's still too big for a desktop monitor but the difference is SED can be made even smaller.

Show me one plasma 1080p under 50". Also this pioneer 100000:1 contrast I'll believe that when i see it, can't kill SED since SED has it already.

What kills SED is cost followed by "good enough" mentality - This will also kill 1080p plasma off eventually too.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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SED tech with carbon nanotunes (CNT) (the basis of their dispute with Nano Proprietary) can reach extremely small pixel sizes. Whether we will ever see SED desktop monitors (market-wise) remains unknown.
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: JackBurton
Originally posted by: Zebo

Yeah right. I guess you dont' see a problem with the disgustingly gigantic pixels plasmas have on someones desktop? Think before you post.
I love completely uninformed people telling others to "think before posting." Zebo, I suggest you take your own advise and read up on the subject before talking smack. The early 32" SED displays had a MASSIVE 720p resolution (but that was just a demo) and later on in October 2006 Toshiba and Canon announced they would actually be releasing a 55" SED set in 2007 (it now seems to be a 50" model by the END of 2007). I don't know about you, but a 55"/50" monitor is WAY too big for my desktop and the rest of 99.999% of the population. SED would be great for a desktop display (if they could get it in teh 20"-30" size range), but that doesn't seem to be the market Canon is after. SED is really competing against plasma for the crown of ultimate HDTV. Until recently, is was really a toss up for what was the best HDTV. Some people said plasma, some preferred LCDs for their resolution. However, since CES 2007 Pioneer shocked and amazed audiences with their new plasma that they will be releasing in the summer of 2007. The display was so amazing, people have been suggesting that SED will be DOA even before hitting the market. Yeah, it was THAT good. It will be a full 1080p with blacks so black, they almost blend in with Pioneer's glossy black frame. The thing is simply AMAZING! Not to mention Canon has been paper launching SED since, well, forever. This may very well be a tech that never came to be, and/or may be just too little too late from Canon. If you are waiting on SED, check out Pioneer's new plasma this summer. The only question is, how much? Which is a pretty big question. But we'll see.

And Zebo, think before you post.

Yea sure. 36" and 1080p was demo'd here:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/593-...-encounters-of-the-third-kind-sed.html
That's still too big for a desktop monitor but the difference is SED can be made even smaller.
WOW, that's amazing! When has Canon announced they would debut this smaller model? Apparently it is as easy as saying, "they could make it smaller." Canon has problems getting out a 50" model, don't hold your breath for a smaller model. Like I said, Canon seems to be targeting the HDTV market, NOT the PC desktop market. And if Canon is planning on entering teh HDTV market with SED, they should have done it a long time ago. They are going to have a TOUGH time with Pioneer's new display sitting right beside it. TOUGH time.
Show me one plasma 1080p under 50". Also this pioneer 100000:1 contrast I'll believe that when i see it, can't kill SED since SED has it already.
I don't consider any HDTV under 50". And given the SHARP prices drops of LCDs and plasmas in recent years, 50" will most likely become the new standard for HDTVs. Why get a 42", when the 50" is just a little more.

As for the contrast ratio, how much more can you ask for when the blacks are just about as black as Pioneer's glossy black frame? That is BLACK!
What kills SED is cost followed by "good enough" mentality - This will also kill 1080p plasma off eventually too.
What kills SED is cost and a product that is too little too late, and STILL not on the market. Plasma is doing very well with sets above 50". 1080p plasmas will eventually come down in price and take over the 720p sets. The Pioneer 1080p 50" plasma dropped from $10,000 to <$5000 in a very short period of time, and like I said, Pioneer's new set is not just a little step above current plasmas, it is a HUGE jump. For people that want the best HDTV set this summer, Pioneer will own the market. No doubt about it. The only question is, how much? But given the current price drops in plasmas, Pioneer can't charge $15,000 for their new set. If the 50" comes out at $5000 or lower, it's mine. :)
 

nrb

Member
Feb 22, 2006
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Originally posted by: ZeboAlso this pioneer 100000:1 contrast I'll believe that when i see it, can't kill SED since SED has it already.
Apparently the new Pioneer plasma has black levels that are superior to anything we've seen from SED so far. The contrast ratio is too high to measure (i.e. the black level reads zero on a detector).
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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Originally posted by: nrb
Originally posted by: ZeboAlso this pioneer 100000:1 contrast I'll believe that when i see it, can't kill SED since SED has it already.
Apparently the new Pioneer plasma has black levels that are superior to anything we've seen from SED so far. The contrast ratio is too high to measure (i.e. the black level reads zero on a detector).

you are both fools

this is about replacing LCD's on the desktop, read my initial post

this is not about the sitting your asses on the sofa 8 ft away watching HDTV or any other tangent your minds wonder off to.

you think plasma's can get on the desktop?

get a grip.

JackBurton
as ever you contribute little more than distraction
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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For now, even though LCD's are more expensive to manufacture the 5 big dogs who invested billions in fabs must fully recoup their investment in these facilities and then some before even thinking about OLED's which are in fact cheaper to make. Our only hope is for a someone new to come along, like has been with lots of cash such as Sony, and build a new fab and start making OLEDs. The problem with that is since computer monitors are so commoditized today the guy who takes this OLED step would quickly find LCD's even cheaper than they are now and no one, save a few picky people, would buy his OLED. Sony must also wait until Eastman Kodaks patent expires to avoid being taken to cleaners in so far as royalties are concerned. Most display techs were not wildly adopted until patents expired as the US companies who invent them are very greedy.

2008 looks promising.
http://www.gizmowatch.com/entry/ces-200...-ever-highest-10000001-contrast-ratio/
http://www.cnet.com.au/tvs/0,239035250,339272928,00.htm

 

nrb

Member
Feb 22, 2006
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Originally posted by: Zebo
you are both fools

this is about replacing LCD's on the desktop, read my initial post

this is not about the sitting your asses on the sofa 8 ft away watching HDTV or any other tangent your minds wonder off to.

you think plasma's can get on the desktop?
While I can only apologise if my TV viewing posture causes you this much emotional pain :confused: SED was never going to be used in desktop monitors anyway; so why is the possible demise of SED in anyway relevant to the subject of desktop monitors?
 

JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
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Originally posted by: Zebo
Originally posted by: nrb
Originally posted by: ZeboAlso this pioneer 100000:1 contrast I'll believe that when i see it, can't kill SED since SED has it already.
Apparently the new Pioneer plasma has black levels that are superior to anything we've seen from SED so far. The contrast ratio is too high to measure (i.e. the black level reads zero on a detector).

you are both fools

this is about replacing LCD's on the desktop, read my initial post

this is not about the sitting your asses on the sofa 8 ft away watching HDTV or any other tangent your minds wonder off to.

you think plasma's can get on the desktop?

get a grip.
Seriously, do you have problems reading English? YOU made this into a desktop argument. The topic is SED. And the ONLY reason you moved this to a desktop monitor argument is because you did not understand the facts. Facts:

1. Plasma is NOT intended to be a desktop monitor replacement. Its place is in the HDTV market.

2. SED is NOT intended to be a desktop monitor replacement. Its place is the SAME as plasma, which is the HDTV market.

Quit freakin' trying to make this into something it is NOT. Your whole desktop argument has been completely thrown out the window because SED wasn't even intended for desktop use (at least Canon definitely hasn't elluded to that). The competition is in the HDTV arena, and plasma and SED will be battling it out. But like I said, SED could be very well dead before it even hits the shelves, given that it doesn't have the massive picture quality advantage it once had. The only thing it can do is be competitive price wise and Canon has already said it will most likely cost more than any other HDTV. So, you draw your own conclusions with that.
JackBurton
as ever you contribute little more than distraction
Distraction? I love this, you don't know what you're talking about, and I'm the distraction. Give me a freakin' break.
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
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OLED appears to be the most promising technology.

There are working panels out there already, improvements to the chemistry are being worked on to dramatically increase the life of the screens.

SED and DLP are going to short lived solutions, Plasma and LCD are at their peaks now.
 

Avalon

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2001
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As long as something comes out within two years...I don't care what tech it is, whether it be SED, OLED, FED, etc. I just don't want to buy an LCD.
 

NanoStuff

Banned
Mar 23, 2006
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Originally posted by: Avalon
As long as something comes out within two years...I don't care what tech it is, whether it be SED, OLED, FED, etc. I just don't want to buy an LCD.

Agreed. As long as it's not an LCD, sold :)