Sebelius admits errors, pays $7,000 in back taxes

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DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
It makes me wonder if we ever vetted appointees this thoroughly in the past? For example, were Bush appointees scrutinized at the same level? How about Clinton appointees?
Ah, now it's OK to cheat on taxes as long as your predecessors may have also cheated on their taxes? Two wrongs make a right, even when you have no evidence of the first wrong? It all makes sense now. You want all of your social programs, but you don't want members of your party to pay for them. Can't someone else do it? Partisan hack doesn't really do you justice.
Your first mistake was to assume they "cheated" on their taxes vs. merely making a mistake.
Then I guess it was just a coincidence that all these 'mere mistakes' made by so many people resulted in the underpayment rather than overpayment of their 'fair share' of taxes. It's all just a coincidence? Is what you believe?
I don't know the answer to that, and neither do you. Regardless, let's audit your taxes for the past 5 years ago and see which way your mistakes lean. How does that sound?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I read an interesting article about this exact subject:

The Enemy Of the Good

President Obama has an ambitious agenda and an economy to fix. Yet hundreds of top government posts stand empty. One reason: over-the-top ethics rules are disqualifying or driving away some of the best and the brightest.

[...]

No one's quite sure when the process got out of control. Some point to John Tower, George H.W. Bush's first choice for Defense secretary, who was shot down for drinking and womanizing. Others cite Zoë Baird, Clinton's failed nominee for attorney general, who neglected to pay taxes on her nanny or look closely into her immigration status. Obama officials say they are ahead of recent presidents in staffing the government. To fill all Senate-confirmed positions took Ronald Reagan 194 days, George H.W. Bush 163 days, Bill Clinton 267 days and George W. Bush 242 days.

[...]

Tax issues loom large now, no matter how minor they may seem. At the Senate Finance Committee, which must give approval on key cabinet posts including HHS and Treasury, an IRS agent has been detailed to run tax audits on candidates. Congress voted to confirm Geithner only after he agreed to pay $42,702 in back taxes and interest; after that, the Senate Finance Committee in effect signaled no more tax scofflaws. There was a time, not long ago, when the White House could quietly inform Finance Committee members that a nominee had a tax problem, but that the taxes were being paid up. The committee would not stand in the way. No longer. Volunteer lawyers at the White House are now furiously examining the tax returns of nominees to make sure they are clean before they are sent to the Hill. Last week the administration's candidate to lead the federal bank-bailout program withdrew his name from consideration because of a nanny problem dating back to the 1990s.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/190355

Seems like the process for dealing with tax problems have changed. In the past, it appears noms were able to be quietly withdrawn or problems quietly resolved if a tax issue popped up.


You mean in the past we didnt have as open a process? The problem with the current situation is what exactly? Your article also mentions the vetting process is just as tough as it was for Bush's appointee's.

 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: Jack Flash
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Atomic Playboy

Very much this. Also, I think this is indicative that we need a serious overhaul of the tax code. If the people that write the thing can't even figure it out, how can they possibly have any reasonable expectation that 200 million+ Americans will somehow nail it? How can you punish someone for any tax code violation when the majority of the executive branch can't seem to get it right?

This I very much agree. Our tax code is simply insane. An entire industry has sprung up to deal with it.

The tax code has nothing to do with taking write-offs that you cannot prove. That is called "tax evasion".

Yes I know that. i was only agreeing that our tax code is ridiculous regardless of how many of Obama's appointee's tried to avoid it.

The errors Sebelius made were clearly non-malicious.

Do you know it's non-malicious because she is a left wing liberal?

I know it's non-malicious because I can read and think.

So if Rush made the same "honest mistake" you would be defending him?

 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
It makes me wonder if we ever vetted appointees this thoroughly in the past? For example, were Bush appointees scrutinized at the same level? How about Clinton appointees?
Ah, now it's OK to cheat on taxes as long as your predecessors may have also cheated on their taxes? Two wrongs make a right, even when you have no evidence of the first wrong? It all makes sense now. You want all of your social programs, but you don't want members of your party to pay for them. Can't someone else do it? Partisan hack doesn't really do you justice.
Your first mistake was to assume they "cheated" on their taxes vs. merely making a mistake.
Then I guess it was just a coincidence that all these 'mere mistakes' made by so many people resulted in the underpayment rather than overpayment of their 'fair share' of taxes. It's all just a coincidence? Is what you believe?
I don't know the answer to that, and neither do you. Regardless, let's audit your taxes for the past 5 years ago and see which way your mistakes lean. How does that sound?
That sounds great...I have nothing to hide. My audit risk is next to ZERO according to TurboTax. I also did not report any deduction for office in home which I'm rightfully entitled to...if anything I've overpaid my taxes the last 5 years because I'm too lazy to go through all the gyrations to take that particular deduction. But hey...if you want to believe I willfully cheat or make 'mistakes' only to my advantage...go for it.

My point was...what's the probably of flipping a coin 10 times and having it come up 'heads' every time? Not good...not good.
 

sactoking

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2007
7,639
2,909
136
I won't speak to the business deductions, there's not enough info.

On the charitable donations:
The IRS says you have to document donations of over $250 with a letter from the charity, but you are not to include that letter with your return. Instead, they use statistics to determine if your deduction is out of line and needs to be audited. Hers didn't trigger an audit, thus her total deductions weren't out of line.

Now she's being asked to go back 2-4 years later and find 49 letters to substantiate the deductions. In theory, should she have them? Yes. Is it plausible that she lost 3 of them? Yes. Is it possible she lied about 3 of them? Yes. Taken in a vacuum, the fact that she produced 94% of her letters leads me to believe they were legit. In light of the fact that she didn't trigger an audit, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.

On the mortgage interest:
The 1040(a) instructions don't cover this topic. They state that if it's a first or second home, it qualifies. If you get a 1098, put that number on the line. Nowhere does it address if the home sold and you owe interest still. If you're a taxpayer doing your own taxes and you read the 1040(a) instructions, do you think that you need clarification? I'd bet that at least 75% of us would say 'no'. Even if you do say yes, where do you go? Do you have access to CCH? Do you know how to do tax research? I'd bet that anyone who's not in the tax field would say 'no' or is lying. If she paid someone else to do her returns, it's not her problem. Her preparer would be liable for the errors. That's why they have E&O coverage.

Like I said, I won't speak to the business deductions since I have no info. But as someone with personal tax experience I don't find either of the other two issues to be out of the ordinary and they're certainly not prima fascie evidence of malfeasance.
 

Jack Flash

Golden Member
Sep 10, 2006
1,947
0
76
Originally posted by: Budmantom
So if Rush made the same "honest mistake" you would be defending him?


If Rush Limbaugh made this same mistake on his taxes I would see it as a non-issue; an honest mistake.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
I don't excuse any of the dems responsible for this, but it's amazing how many people in this thread are stupid/naive enough to think this is exclusive to dems or Obama cabinet members. Small-scale tax evasion or mistakes like this affect a huge percentage of people in high income brackets, and republicans are just as guilty if not moreso.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I read an interesting article about this exact subject:

The Enemy Of the Good

President Obama has an ambitious agenda and an economy to fix. Yet hundreds of top government posts stand empty. One reason: over-the-top ethics rules are disqualifying or driving away some of the best and the brightest.

[...]

No one's quite sure when the process got out of control. Some point to John Tower, George H.W. Bush's first choice for Defense secretary, who was shot down for drinking and womanizing. Others cite Zoë Baird, Clinton's failed nominee for attorney general, who neglected to pay taxes on her nanny or look closely into her immigration status. Obama officials say they are ahead of recent presidents in staffing the government. To fill all Senate-confirmed positions took Ronald Reagan 194 days, George H.W. Bush 163 days, Bill Clinton 267 days and George W. Bush 242 days.

[...]

Tax issues loom large now, no matter how minor they may seem. At the Senate Finance Committee, which must give approval on key cabinet posts including HHS and Treasury, an IRS agent has been detailed to run tax audits on candidates. Congress voted to confirm Geithner only after he agreed to pay $42,702 in back taxes and interest; after that, the Senate Finance Committee in effect signaled no more tax scofflaws. There was a time, not long ago, when the White House could quietly inform Finance Committee members that a nominee had a tax problem, but that the taxes were being paid up. The committee would not stand in the way. No longer. Volunteer lawyers at the White House are now furiously examining the tax returns of nominees to make sure they are clean before they are sent to the Hill. Last week the administration's candidate to lead the federal bank-bailout program withdrew his name from consideration because of a nanny problem dating back to the 1990s.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/190355

Seems like the process for dealing with tax problems have changed. In the past, it appears noms were able to be quietly withdrawn or problems quietly resolved if a tax issue popped up.


You mean in the past we didnt have as open a process? The problem with the current situation is what exactly? Your article also mentions the vetting process is just as tough as it was for Bush's appointee's.
That's what I'm saying. And yes, I noticed that too.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: Doc Savage Fan
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
It makes me wonder if we ever vetted appointees this thoroughly in the past? For example, were Bush appointees scrutinized at the same level? How about Clinton appointees?
Ah, now it's OK to cheat on taxes as long as your predecessors may have also cheated on their taxes? Two wrongs make a right, even when you have no evidence of the first wrong? It all makes sense now. You want all of your social programs, but you don't want members of your party to pay for them. Can't someone else do it? Partisan hack doesn't really do you justice.
Your first mistake was to assume they "cheated" on their taxes vs. merely making a mistake.
Then I guess it was just a coincidence that all these 'mere mistakes' made by so many people resulted in the underpayment rather than overpayment of their 'fair share' of taxes. It's all just a coincidence? Is what you believe?
I don't know the answer to that, and neither do you. Regardless, let's audit your taxes for the past 5 years ago and see which way your mistakes lean. How does that sound?
That sounds great...I have nothing to hide. My audit risk is next to ZERO according to TurboTax. I also did not report any deduction for office in home which I'm rightfully entitled to...if anything I've overpaid my taxes the last 5 years because I'm too lazy to go through all the gyrations to take that particular deduction. But hey...if you want to believe I willfully cheat or make 'mistakes' only to my advantage...go for it.

My point was...what's the probably of flipping a coin 10 times and having it come up 'heads' every time? Not good...not good.

Well Turbotax may claim that, but as a senate-confirmed nominee, it hardly matters what Turbotax says. It's an automatic audit going back 3 years or more, IIRC.

And I wasn't claiming you willfully cheat or make mistakes on purpose, I'm merely suggesting that if we audited a random person, the chances are fairly good that we'd find some error or another.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,644
9,946
136
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
ANOTHER one? Jesus.. Can ANY democrats pay their taxes?

These are NOT Democrat voters, these are party officials. By definition these party officials are rich and anyone who is rich is bound to be burned by our bloated tax code.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
i wonder how an average citizen would do in this process, i'm guessing alot of us would fuck alot of stuff up.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
ANOTHER one? Jesus.. Can ANY democrats pay their taxes? The house stuff seems like a reasonable mistake, but the charitable contribution thing seems like they were caught. Come on, you have NO proof of them? $7000 in back taxes means they were probably deducting in the range of $25,000 they shouldn't have.

I agree, all Dems fuckup their taxes and all Reps are closeted toe-tappers.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
ANOTHER one? Jesus.. Can ANY democrats pay their taxes? The house stuff seems like a reasonable mistake, but the charitable contribution thing seems like they were caught. Come on, you have NO proof of them? $7000 in back taxes means they were probably deducting in the range of $25,000 they shouldn't have.

I agree, all Dems fuckup their taxes and all Reps are closeted toe-tappers.

Is there something wrong with toe-tappers? That is a code-word for "gay", correct?
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
20
81
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
ANOTHER one? Jesus.. Can ANY democrats pay their taxes? The house stuff seems like a reasonable mistake, but the charitable contribution thing seems like they were caught. Come on, you have NO proof of them? $7000 in back taxes means they were probably deducting in the range of $25,000 they shouldn't have.

I agree, all Dems fuckup their taxes and all Reps are closeted toe-tappers.

Is there something wrong with toe-tappers? That is a code-word for "gay", correct?

I don't know that toe-tapper is code for gay, I was referring to Senator Craig who literally tapped his toes.

Nothing wrong with gay obviously. But being a closeted gay who hypocritically pushes anti-gay legislation, preaches family values and morality while condemning marriage equality efforts? Yeah, something wrong there.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,060
1
0
Originally posted by: OCguy
Originally posted by: jonks
Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
ANOTHER one? Jesus.. Can ANY democrats pay their taxes? The house stuff seems like a reasonable mistake, but the charitable contribution thing seems like they were caught. Come on, you have NO proof of them? $7000 in back taxes means they were probably deducting in the range of $25,000 they shouldn't have.

I agree, all Dems fuckup their taxes and all Reps are closeted toe-tappers.

Is there something wrong with toe-tappers? That is a code-word for "gay", correct?

I prefer my officials to be having anonymous sex in public restrooms :thumbsup:


anyways i don't really give a fuck what these people do with their personal lives, including whether or not they screwed up their taxes. Can we talk more about experience, intelligence, goals, skills, etc?
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
0
0
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
i wonder how an average citizen would do in this process, i'm guessing alot of us would fuck alot of stuff up.

i bet they'd be ok because they just take the standard deduction.