Seattle city council approves $15/hour minimum wage

[Mai72]

Its going to get worse. Real wages will continue to drop, jobs will keep dying, and wealth will be increasingly concentrated at the top. All while the economy is growing. There will never again be some big economic boom suddenly providing lots of new jobs. Race to the bottom for the non-rich.

Supposedly there are a ton of new jobs just begging for people. The problem is employers can't fill the positions because of the skills gap. These are positions that easily pay $60-100K a year.

I don't know how true this is.

 

[Humpy]

All of this minimum wage increase will just trickle up to the undeserving 1%. Thanks Obama.

 

[Caveman]

That was the old America. In today's America we have seen the good jobs shipped overseas, and what is left are those $8 an hour low skilled jobs. For a lot of people today making $8 an hour is a permanent life choice.

I know what most are thinking. They should go back to school and gain the skills that employers demand. It's not that easy for a lot of people. They don't have the family support that we have. Maybe the mother needs to support her children while the father is absent.

This is all they probably have so why shouldn't they be able to make a decent wage?

Going to school isn't easy for anyone. That's why less and less people will do it if there's an easier way to opt out. Starvation is a great motovation. I paid for every penny of my Bachelor's degree including room and board for myself. Not having family support to get an education is a great example of a first world problem. Creating the appearance of an economy that can support flipping burgers as a full time job is creating a class of modern day slaves that will never escape from that lifestyle... Temporary welfare to get someone back on their feet is the duty of society - permanent welfare never works.

 

[highland145]

Going to school isn't easy for anyone. That's why less and less people will do it if there's an easier way to opt out. Starvation is a great motovation. I paid for every penny of my Bachelor's degree including room and board for myself. Not having family support to get an education is a great example of a first world problem. Creating the appearance of an economy that can support flipping burgers as a full time job is creating a class of modern day slaves that will never escape from that lifestyle... Temporary welfare to get someone back on their feet is the duty of society - permanent welfare never works.

Subscribed.

 

[Caveman]

Supposedly there are a ton of new jobs just begging for people. The problem is employers can't fill the positions because of the skills gap. These are positions that easily pay $60-100K a year.

I don't know how true this is.

It is true. This is one of the primary reasons for NOT increasing the minimum wage as it only shrinks the middle class further - by squeezing more out to a bottom side.

 

[SunnyD]

Kshama Sawant is a Seattle City Council member. A former software engineer from India, Sawant became a socialist activist and part-time economics professor in Seattle after immigrating to the United States.

The core issues of Sawant's campaign were a minimum wage increase to US$15/hour, a "millionaire's tax" or income tax on wealthy Seattleites, and rent control.

So H1B's coming to a McDonald's near you?

 

[velillen]

itll be interesting to see thats for sure. It will be hard to say if its truly a failure or success though. This only applies to Seattle. Tons of people commute in from outside of Seattle for work. Same as they do in Seatac as well. So my prediction is neither Seatac nor Seattle will show anything really when it comes to people. Businesses may close but the employees can just move on to another fast food place or whatever. Wont see rent go up cause so many of those working low paying jobs are not even living in Seattle anyways.


But either way i wish Seattle would just become their own damn state or something. Its pretty much the rest of WA vs King County (ie Seattle) when it comes to most things.

 

[Markbnj]

Damn. We were considering opening a new office in Seattle. Now, there's no way. Who wants to pay software engineers that kind of money?

I lol'd.

 

[Markbnj]

Its going to get worse. Real wages will continue to drop, jobs will keep dying, and wealth will be increasingly concentrated at the top. All while the economy is growing. There will never again be some big economic boom suddenly providing lots of new jobs. Race to the bottom for the non-rich.

People try things like obtaining degrees to escape the rising flood, but that's not going to save them.

I think the realization that this is true is why there was so much interest in Pinketty's book. When I was in my 20's and 30's I was pretty much a raging economic conservative, and capitalist to my core. As I've gotten older one thing I've noticed is that not many people seem to be actually happy. We work our asses off to stay 2 points behind the rate of inflation, and enjoy our two days a week off, and we're supposed to be happy because capitalism and the free market are the best way to take care of the most people.

Except all this unhappiness. We take fewer vacations, spend less time with our kids, buy dirt-cheap Chinese imports because it's all we can afford, and hope to have enough scraped together to stop working some time before we die.

What I think I'm beginning to realize is that humanity is approaching a transition, and we have to manage it carefully. The days when those without specialized skills could be assured of making a living wage at some menial task are disappearing, attempts to legislate them back notwithstanding. You can't just ignore these people, because eventually they will fight back. Maybe we're approaching an era when some new model of success and wealth is going to be needed. After all, if our technology could provide for everyone, then where is the need to build a society on competing for a share of it?

 

[BoberFett]

That was the old America. In today's America we have seen the good jobs shipped overseas, and what is left are those $8 an hour low skilled jobs. For a lot of people today making $8 an hour is a permanent life choice.

I know what most are thinking. They should go back to school and gain the skills that employers demand. It's not that easy for a lot of people. They don't have the family support that we have. Maybe the mother needs to support her children while the father is absent.

This is all they probably have so why shouldn't they be able to make a decent wage?

Because minimum wage isn't a fix. It has pros and cons.

 

[BoberFett]

We have a lot of low skilled workers who are having a difficult time finding employment in this new economy. Hell, even college graduates have been forced to take low paying jobs because they don't have the skills necessary to compete in today's competitive job market.

We need to address this issue or else it's going to exacerbate.

And you think it will be easier to find a job when employers have to justify the cost of an employee against the profit that job generates?

Increased minimum wage makes things better for people who have jobs. People who are priced out of their jobs because labor costs made it more effective to offshore it, replace them with a computer or robot, or eliminate the job entirely, not so much.

 

[phucheneh]

I lol'd.

While I know nothing of that industry, I found it be a terrifyingly appropriate comment with regards to...well, everything, nowadays. Anyone with schooling and experience in a trade (be it blue collar or white collar) who is good at what they do....chances are they are grossly undercompensated.

There seem to be two schools of thought. Either you have your bullshit trickle-down 'Reaganomics,' implying that feeding the success of those at the top stimulates the economy and somehow ends up getting money into the pockets of everyone else (LOL)...

...or you have 'trickle-up,' where putting more money in the hands of the poor allows them to spend more and, again, stimulate the economy.

But it seems like the middle class gets buttfucked either way.

Do I think $8 an hour is a liveable wage? No. Do I think 'those are just jobs for kids,' and that everyone else is capable of getting something better? No.

But paying them the same amount that people with marketable skills are currently being paid...holy fuck, what utter silliness. Pay the people in the middle what they are actually fucking worth, and maybe this country won't be such a shithole...

 

[dmcowen674]

I can see employers moving the majority of their staff to part time and eliminating benefits.

They'll probably try to do more with less staff as well, or bring in migrant labour.

That's what Corporations have been doing anyway so what's different?

 

[DrPizza]

7 years it appears, so in essence nobody wins but the council that made for a good headline. If cheering workers are still doing jobs teenagers should be doing in seven years then they are doing a lot wrong.

Why would teenagers be working all the fast food places during the lunch hour? Why would teenagers be doing all those cashier jobs at grocery stores and department stores during the day? Shouldn't they be in school getting an education so they can avoid those jobs? <Sarcasm> Ideally, we'll be able to close down all restaurants, stores, etc., from 8 to 3 in a few decades, because everyone will be educated and will have a white collar job. </sarcasm>

 

[Argo]

Sawant called for large Seattle companies such as Starbucks and Amazon to be unionized in her most recent campaign.[32] In previous campaigns she has advocated the nationalization of large Washington State corporations such as Boeing, Microsoft, and Amazon.com[33] and expressed a desire to see privately owned housing in "Millonaire's Row" in the Capitol Hill neighborhood turned into publically owned shared housing saying, "When things are exquisitely beautiful and rare, they shouldn't be privately owned."[45] During an election victory rally for her City Council campaign Sawant criticized Boeing for saying it would move jobs out of state if it couldn't get wage concessions and tax breaks. She called this "economic terrorism" and said in several speeches if Boeing moved jobs out of state that the workers should take over Boeing facilities and bring them into public ownership.

This is the person sitting on Seattle city council. Scary, isn't it?

 

[ViviTheMage]

just replace workers with robots, minimum wage not an issue anymore

 

[dmcowen674]

Quote:
Sawant called for large Seattle companies such as Starbucks and Amazon to be unionized in her most recent campaign.[32] In previous campaigns she has advocated the nationalization of large Washington State corporations such as Boeing, Microsoft, and Amazon.com[33] and expressed a desire to see privately owned housing in "Millonaire's Row" in the Capitol Hill neighborhood turned into publically owned shared housing saying, "When things are exquisitely beautiful and rare, they shouldn't be privately owned."[45] During an election victory rally for her City Council campaign Sawant criticized Boeing for saying it would move jobs out of state if it couldn't get wage concessions and tax breaks. She called this "economic terrorism" and said in several speeches if Boeing moved jobs out of state that the workers should take over Boeing facilities and bring them into public ownership.

This is the person sitting on Seattle city council. Scary, isn't it?

What's scary and disgusting is people like you supporting Corporate Welfare and showing your hatred of working Americans.

 

[TallBill]

What's scary and disgusting is people like you supporting Corporate Welfare and showing your hatred of working Americans.

I would say that you're scary, but you're just a delusional troll.

 

[Argo]

What's scary and disgusting is people like you supporting Corporate Welfare and showing your hatred of working Americans.

Because in your world there are only two types of people full-on communists, and corporate cronies, right?

 

[Kaido]

So if restaurant workers are getting paid more, does that mean we don't have to tip anymore because they're getting a better paycheck to live on?

 

[JEDI]

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2023753163_wagevotexml.html

Wow. I'm not sure what to say. That's great for the workers, but their cost of living is going to go up anyways so this is not going to put them much further ahead (or much less behind.)

Moral to the story, if you're working in Seattle earning minimum wage and still living at home...score!

interesting experiment.
Reagan's trickle down doesn't work. (more $ to the top 1%'ers)
lets see if Seatle's trickle up does. (more $ to the bottom 10%'ers)

also, lets see if there's less tipping in restuarants.
hell, lets see if restuarants will stay open in seatle/SeaTac.

I expect the current $15/hr workers will get a pay bump.
else they'll just quit and be a burger flipper. less stress, same $.

we will know in 10yrs.
in 2025, will Seatle be the next Detroit? or will Seastle prove everyone wrong and socialist cities can thrive?
(I doubt it. Look at Detroit.)

 

[mikeford]

Good news, no reason to tip anybody making $15/hr.

Bad news, no reason to hire or keep any employee that can't earn $15/hr.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Temporary welfare to get someone back on their feet is the duty of society - permanent welfare never works.

So you have a third of American society that is basically unfit to work in a global labor market. What do you do with them?

-Ignoring them leads to social and political unrest, which robs the job creators when markets tank.

-They all aren't smart or skilled enough to retrain for a job that IS competitive on the global market.

-Just putting them on the dole keeps them on the streets and in trouble, and robs them of the satisfaction of at least PRETENDING they are a productive part of society.

Giving them subsidized jobs (ala forced wages, Chinese or Detroit-style state run business, etc.) keeps these people off the streets, keeps them provided for so society is stable, and gives them the satisfaction of feeling like they are a part of society which keeps them (and their children) from being isolated from a future labor market.

I think given the shift in our economy, the 1% or whatever should WELCOME being "robbed" to subsidize the jobs of Americans if the alternative is 20 years from now the Dow and real estate markets tank because of mass social upheaval. Then all that money (and more!) is lost anyway.

At some level the "in theory" arguments of "teach a man to fish" have to be reconciled with reality.

 

[darkewaffle]

inb4 it doesn't help shit because idiots think $15/hr is enough to buy a lambo and still have no ability to manage money

I get the feel good reasons behind it, but at the same time I think paying unskilled labor that much is pretty foolish. You don't get paid much because it's something any generic idiot can handle. Though while the idea I don't agree with, I think the implementation of it is pretty sound at least - if it's going to happen they're at least going about it in a fairly reasonable manner.

 

[DesiPower]

It's understandable, weed is not cheap...