"Searching for the Roots of 9/11"

[Tripleshot]

It's a case of the have nots wanting the haves ----jealousy. The arab world wants mountains and streams, blue sky, shopping malls, beaches and wealth. Instead, the majority of Arabs have camels,miles of sand, poor food,sanitatation, homelife. They feel trapped, and the clerics of the Muslum religeon incite rioting for the oppressed. Muhhamed(sp?) was kicked out of Mecca when he was organizing his "church" and fled to Medina. He hijacked caravans traveling to Mecca like a robin hood, using theivery and violence as a way of accomplishing his goals. This is the foundation of thier Islamic relegion. They base their entire belief system on a thief. It is no wonder they are oppresed. They have their eyes closed, are ignorant, and follow who ever will give them food. They lost their dignity, and want it back.

Sorry Arabs, you need to earn that dignity. It isn't by flying planes into buildings. Find another religous Icon. Try Jesus Christ. He never stole anything. He preached and practiced brotherly love. He was generous and the model of copereation and healing.

Just my opinion. If you want to wallow in self pity, do that. Just keep your hate mongering jealous envy away from me and my countrymen. They never deserved to die for you assholes to make a point.

That is the feeling I had after watching that program. Believe it or not, I do want to know what makes them tick.

 

[railer]

Tripleshot...you think 9/11 is about jealousy?
OMFG. Did you go to college?
That is the most simplistic view I have every heard.
Why aren't there ever any terrorist attacks on Japan or Taiwan...they're both wealthy nations...
Why aren't South Americans ever involved in terrorist attacks...they're all pooer (for the most part).

Dumbing down this problem to "jealously" is never going to get us anywhere.

 

[Orsorum]

Jesus Christ died, pathetic, humiliated, on a stick on a hill in front of his persecutors. Your point?

You want to talk about "losing your dignity"? "Oh, God, please help me, I'm so sinful, I'm not worthy of anything... oh, please send someone to die for me so that I can get into heaven..."

You judge another's religion with arrogance and ignorance, and then you wonder why people hate Christians.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: railer
Tripleshot...you think 9/11 is about jealousy?
OMFG. Did you go to college?
That is the most simplistic view I have every heard.
Why aren't there ever any terrorist attacks on Japan or Taiwan...they're both wealthy nations...
Why aren't South Americans ever involved in terrorist attacks...they're all pooer (for the most part).

Dumbing down this problem to "jealously" is never going to get us anywhere.

It's okay, it allows him to vent his suppressed feelings of inadequacy and doubt and to project them onto other people. It doesn't matter if it actually solves anything, because we all know that Christianity is the one true religion anyways!

 

[railer]

Nice posts Zakath15.

Some people would be quite pleased if all the intelligent, informed people "moved out if they don't like it", while all the ignorant people stayed behind waving the flag like glassy eyed idiots while chanting "USA , USA".


I have an idea shinerburke, why don't YOU move? You're not smart enough to be an American, you don't deserve to be here....so YOU move. I'll pay for your ticket...

 

[railer]

Christianity is a crock anyway. Hey tripleshot I gots a question for you (since you seem like a Bible-thumper):

What happens to non-christians when they die? Do they go to hell? I mean the Billions of Muslims, Budhists, Hindu's, etc...
Where do they go?

How 'bout everyone that existed before Christianity was made up? You know, the Greeks, Romans (earlier Romans anyway), etc.

Are they all burning in eternal hell right now?

This isn't even meant to be a smart -assed question believe it or not.

The more I read and learn about different religions, the more made up and phoney they all seem to be.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: railer
Nice posts Zakath15.

Some people would be quite pleased if all the intelligent, informed people "moved out if they don't like it", while all the ignorant people stayed behind waving the flag like glassy eyed idiots while chanting "USA , USA".


I have an idea shinerburke, why don't YOU move? You're not smart enough to be an American, you don't deserve to be here....so YOU move. I'll pay for your ticket...

You don't really want to get into that game with me kiddo.

Not smart enough to be an American. Hmmm....let me think about that for a second....I have multiple degrees, both Bachelors and Masters, in things such as History, Political Science, and Geography. I would have to say that I'm ahead of the curve in Intelligence compared to most in this country.

 

[Bulk Beef]

Just curious - Zakath and/or railer, did either of you watch this show?

 

[C'DaleRider]

Originally posted by: Fencer128
Whilst 9/11 was neither the US's "fault" nor was in any way "deserved" - both opinions of some would have you believe, there are other points to consider. Namely, the US could reduce the amount of hatred directed towards it by taking a more concerned view of the middle east in general - as just opposed to Israel.

What I mean to say is that the foriegn policy of the US, especially with regards to its unwavering support of Isreal is a major source for the kind of hatred across the entire middle-east that leads to attacks like 9/11. The reason for this is that those in the Arab world who hate/dislike/cannot understand Israel - depending on the severity of their stance - see the US as being one-sided and two-faced. They see that attrocities are committed by both parties and yet the US does nothing concrete to curb the Israeli side of the conflict - it only condemns the Plaestinian acts, whilst actively supplying and supporting US/Israeli weapons technology.

Until the US is once again seriously engaged - as it was only a few years ago - with the peace process and the creation of an independant Palestinian state (as this is the ONLY solution that will hold water for the long term) there will unfortunately continue to be a steady supply of US haters who readily sign up to fight for terrorist groups against US interests. If the Palestinian problem can be worked on and hopefully resolved at some point in the future the US will have struck a bigger blow against terrorism than any war could ever achieve, as it will do a lot to win over the next generation of potential "US haters" (and by doing so reducing the flood of potential recruits to groups such as Al-Quaeda) before they get consumed into the dogma that now surrounds this issue.

Andy

Good stuff Andy..........our support of Israel is needed honestly. BUt I wonder how long we can overlook Israel's continued "We'll behave" attitude while allowing settlements to be built on what was land given to the Palestinian people years ago. And how long we can stand Israel spying on the US.....Jonathan Pollack comes to mind. Strange how Israel still refuses to give back the information that traitor stole from us to give to Israel. Guess the stories of Israel selling the ill-gotten info to Russia may be indeed true. And to add Israel still wants Pollack back to treat him as a hero of their country for being a spy against the US.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: sward666
Just curious - Zakath and/or railer, did either of you watch this show?

I watched parts of it, it was a very, very interesting show.

 

[railer]

Sorry kiddo, but when you spout off dribble like "Hey guess what....you can move if you don't like it. ", you sound like ignorant trailer trash.
Now do you honestly think that yours is an intelligent statement, or did you get caught up in the heat of the moment and put your foot in your mouth? I'll cut you some slack if the latter is true.

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: railer
Nice posts Zakath15.

Some people would be quite pleased if all the intelligent, informed people "moved out if they don't like it", while all the ignorant people stayed behind waving the flag like glassy eyed idiots while chanting "USA , USA".


I have an idea shinerburke, why don't YOU move? You're not smart enough to be an American, you don't deserve to be here....so YOU move. I'll pay for your ticket...

You don't really want to get into that game with me kiddo.

Not smart enough to be an American. Hmmm....let me think about that for a second....I have multiple degrees, both Bachelors and Masters, in things such as History, Political Science, and Geography. I would have to say that I'm ahead of the curve in Intelligence compared to most in this country.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: railer
Sorry kiddo, but when you spout off dribble like "Hey guess what....you can move if you don't like it. ", you sound like ignorant trailer trash.
Now do you honestly think that yours is an intelligent statement, or did you get caught up in the heat of the moment and put your foot in your mouth? I'll cut you some slack if the latter is true.

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: railer
Nice posts Zakath15.

Some people would be quite pleased if all the intelligent, informed people "moved out if they don't like it", while all the ignorant people stayed behind waving the flag like glassy eyed idiots while chanting "USA , USA".


I have an idea shinerburke, why don't YOU move? You're not smart enough to be an American, you don't deserve to be here....so YOU move. I'll pay for your ticket...

You don't really want to get into that game with me kiddo.

Not smart enough to be an American. Hmmm....let me think about that for a second....I have multiple degrees, both Bachelors and Masters, in things such as History, Political Science, and Geography. I would have to say that I'm ahead of the curve in Intelligence compared to most in this country.

I meant what I said. If someone is just going to bash on their country all the time then why keep living there? You don't like it? Well one of the great things about the U.S.A. is that you have the freedom to get up and leave if you want.

 

[railer]

Well said Fencer128.

shinerburke, there is nothing wrong with voicing your opionion about the policies of you goverment. If you don't agree with these policies, it is your duty as an informed, responsible citizen to discuss them. Anything less is irresponsible. There is certainly nothing anti-american about voicing your opinion, even if it doesn't follow the party line.

One of the things that separates the US from China or Nazi Germany is the willingness of our citizens to voice their opinions. I don't think suggesting that people "move if they don't like it" fits within the spirit of our great nation.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: railer
Well said Fencer128.

shinerburke, there is nothing wrong with voicing your opionion about the policies of you goverment. If you don't agree with these policies, it is your duty as an informed, responsible citizen to discuss them. Anything less is irresponsible. There is certainly nothing anti-american about voicing your opinion, even if it doesn't follow the party line.

One of the things that separates the US from China or Nazi Germany is the willingness of our citizens to voice their opinions. I don't think suggesting that people "move if they don't like it" fits within the spirit of our great nation.

Voicing your opinion is a good thing, especially if it is rooted in a deep personal conviction. However most of the people on here spewing forth their America is so bad rhetoric are only now saying those things because they don't like the current resident of the White House. Many of these same people never said a word as long as someone they liked was inhabiting 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. When President Clinton bombed Kosovo without U.N. approval where were all these anti-war protestors? When President Clinton gave money to the North Koreans because they promised to stop building nukes where were all the "we shouldn't be involved in another countries affairs" people. If you are anti-war and have valid reasons for being so then great, more power to you. If you have problems with the foreign policy of the U.S. and can explain why you think it is bad and how it could be made better then by all means do so. If you just want to spout off about how this is bad, how that is bad, and how the U.S. is horrible, blah, blah, blah then you need to just shut up or move. The overwhelming majority of people I have spoken to with those views have no idea why they have them other than 1. They don't like President Bush or 2. They heard someone say so on television.

 

[Jmman]

It is easy to say that an independent Palestinian state would solve all the problems in the middle east, but with Arafat and virtually every Arab state calling for the absolute destruction of Israel since even before the war in 1948, is it even plausible? And don't you think that there is a fairly large radical Muslim population in the Middle East that wants our destruction simply because we are non-Muslims or Infidels? This conflict is not so much about what we have done; it is about who we are......

 

[ub4me]

Originally posted by: Jmman
And don't you think that there is a fairly large radical Muslim population in the Middle East that wants our destruction simply because we are non-Muslims or Infidels? This conflict is not so much about what we have done; it is about who we are......

I strongly disgree with you.
I think there are much more peachful Muslims than Osama Bin Laden kind of fundamentalists.
And I believe it's about what we have done rather than who we are.

Here is Islam Q&A.
Please read it through and don't judge others by your prejudice.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: ub4me

Originally posted by: Jmman
And don't you think that there is a fairly large radical Muslim population in the Middle East that wants our destruction simply because we are non-Muslims or Infidels? This conflict is not so much about what we have done; it is about who we are......

I strongly disgree with you.
I think there are much more peachful Muslims than Osama Bin Laden kind of fundamentalists.
And I believe it's about what we have done rather than who we are.

Here is Islam Q&A.
Please read it through and don't judge by your prejudice.

That's a pretty nice clean and neat presentation of Islam. Find yourself a copy of a Quran published in the Middle East. A friend of mine has one, scary stuff in there about killing anyone who is non Muslim. Seriously, get yourself a non edited for the West version and give it a read. I used to think that Islam was a religion of peace, but after seeing what I have in the non edited version I changed my mind.

 

[Bulk Beef]

A major point of this show was that Israel/Palestine is only a part of the equation.

A. Arabs feel embittered at the relative backwardsness of their own countries.
B. Arabs feel embittered at their own oppressive governments, and they don't have much of an outlet for that bitterness.
C. Arabs feel embittered at the perceived duplicity of US foreign policy, both in regard to Israel as well as their home countries.
D. Israel/Palestine gives the average Arab a convenient and tangible excuse to get really pissed at the US, i.e. "Look at what they're doing to my Muslim brothers!! (never mind that I didn't much care when my other Muslim brothers were the ones with the boot on the Palestinian back)"
E. Radical Islam exploits and channels that outrage and Presto! Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorism!

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Jmman
It is easy to say that an independent Palestinian state would solve all the problems in the middle east, but with Arafat and virtually every Arab state calling for the absolute destruction of Israel since even before the war in 1948, is it even plausible? And don't you think that there is a fairly large radical Muslim population in the Middle East that wants our destruction simply because we are non-Muslims or Infidels? This conflict is not so much about what we have done; it is about who we are......

No, giving Palestinians a homeland isn't a panacea, but it would be a removal of a major source of discontent. The Israel/Palestine issue is a constant reminder and reinforcement of hatred for Israel, if removed many will have little reason to hate.

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: ub4me

Originally posted by: Jmman
And don't you think that there is a fairly large radical Muslim population in the Middle East that wants our destruction simply because we are non-Muslims or Infidels? This conflict is not so much about what we have done; it is about who we are......

I strongly disgree with you.
I think there are much more peachful Muslims than Osama Bin Laden kind of fundamentalists.
And I believe it's about what we have done rather than who we are.

Here is Islam Q&A.
Please read it through and don't judge others by your prejudice.

Wow, what was I thinking? Islam means "peace." I feel so much better!!


Islam does not mean peace, it means "submission". Doesn't sound quite as good.
I love this little paragraph......

Two Quranic ayas read as follows:
9.014 "Fight them (infidels) and Allah will punish them by your (muslims) hands"
9.052 ""Allah will afflict you (infidels) with punishment from himself (Allah) or by our(muslims) hands". A muslim website used these verses to incite muslims that it is divine order from Allah for them to kill infidels (for details about this article and analysis please go to Dr. Ali Sina website "faithfreedom.org"). Needless to say that pious believing muslims act on the above commandement , or at least cheer them when some one acts on it. How long the world will continue to believe the islamic apologists line that Islam is peaceful and islam means peace? May be what they mean is Islam means pieces of infidel body parts on the streets.


I can finds lots of Islamic teachings in both the Quran and the Hadith that will make it painfully clear that Islam is not a religion of peace.

 

[dabuddha]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: railer
Well said Fencer128.

shinerburke, there is nothing wrong with voicing your opionion about the policies of you goverment. If you don't agree with these policies, it is your duty as an informed, responsible citizen to discuss them. Anything less is irresponsible. There is certainly nothing anti-american about voicing your opinion, even if it doesn't follow the party line.

One of the things that separates the US from China or Nazi Germany is the willingness of our citizens to voice their opinions. I don't think suggesting that people "move if they don't like it" fits within the spirit of our great nation.

Voicing your opinion is a good thing, especially if it is rooted in a deep personal conviction. However most of the people on here spewing forth their America is so bad rhetoric are only now saying those things because they don't like the current resident of the White House. Many of these same people never said a word as long as someone they liked was inhabiting 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. When President Clinton bombed Kosovo without U.N. approval where were all these anti-war protestors? When President Clinton gave money to the North Koreans because they promised to stop building nukes where were all the "we shouldn't be involved in another countries affairs" people. If you are anti-war and have valid reasons for being so then great, more power to you. If you have problems with the foreign policy of the U.S. and can explain why you think it is bad and how it could be made better then by all means do so. If you just want to spout off about how this is bad, how that is bad, and how the U.S. is horrible, blah, blah, blah then you need to just shut up or move. The overwhelming majority of people I have spoken to with those views have no idea why they have them other than 1. They don't like President Bush or 2. They heard someone say so on television.

Well said shinerburke. Just try ignoring the idiots like Zakath and railer

 

[VicodiN]

As much as I'd hate Arafat gaining what he wants, (a seperate Palestine state), simply because he's frequently demonstrated (and well documented) he's nothing but a life long terrorist with twisted political/religious views, I think alot of this mess would be cleared up in the Middle East....
But then again, I can understand why both Israel and the US resist 'giving' a terrorist what he wants... This may solve the problem for some years, but what happens when their power increases by becoming a valid entity? What happens when the agreement becomes 'not enough'? More uprisings in a more organized matter?

With Saddam, it's been documented that we pretty much missed the boat with ridding the world of his sorry carcass as soon as 1995... According to 'misplaced' CIA reports, there was a planned uprising of select Iraqi divisions to overthrow Saddam... All they wished was the USA's support in them performing the matter... We, of course, didnt wish to be associated with a potential assassination, WHICH we wouldnt even be doing! Go figure... I guess he'd have to be a known drug trafficer for us to consider him a SERIOUS threat (Noriega).

 

[Jmman]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Jmman
It is easy to say that an independent Palestinian state would solve all the problems in the middle east, but with Arafat and virtually every Arab state calling for the absolute destruction of Israel since even before the war in 1948, is it even plausible? And don't you think that there is a fairly large radical Muslim population in the Middle East that wants our destruction simply because we are non-Muslims or Infidels? This conflict is not so much about what we have done; it is about who we are......

No, giving Palestinians a homeland isn't a panacea, but it would be a removal of a major source of discontent. The Israel/Palestine issue is a constant reminder and reinforcement of hatred for Israel, if removed many will have little reason to hate.

Well, over the years an independent Palestinian state has been offered many times, but never accepted. Why? Because the stated goal is the destruction of the Jews and the Jewish state, not the founding of a peaceful Palestinian state that will coexist with the Isaraelis.

 

[alexruiz]

Originally posted by: ub4me

Originally posted by: Fencer128
Whilst 9/11 was neither the US's "fault" nor was in any way "deserved" - both opinions of some would have you believe, there are other points to consider. Namely, the US could reduce the amount of hatred directed towards it by taking a more concerned view of the middle east in general - as just opposed to Israel.

What I mean to say is that the foriegn policy of the US, especially with regards to its unwavering support of Isreal is a major source for the kind of hatred across the entire middle-east that leads to attacks like 9/11. The reason for this is that those in the Arab world who hate/dislike/cannot understand Israel - depending on the severity of their stance - see the US as being one-sided and two-faced. They see that attrocities are committed by both parties and yet the US does nothing concrete to curb the Israeli side of the conflict - it only condemns the Plaestinian acts, whilst actively supplying and supporting US/Israeli weapons technology.

Until the US is once again seriously engaged - as it was only a few years ago - with the peace process and the creation of an independant Palestinian state (as this is the ONLY solution that will hold water for the long term) there will unfortunately continue to be a steady supply of US haters who readily sign up to fight for terrorist groups against US interests. If the Palestinian problem can be worked on and hopefully resolved at some point in the future the US will have struck a bigger blow against terrorism than any war could ever achieve, as it will do a lot to win over the next generation of potential "US haters" (and by doing so reducing the flood of potential recruits to groups such as Al-Quaeda) before they get consumed into the dogma that now surrounds this issue.

Andy

I totally agree with you!

Well, you have also my vote! The key words here are FAIRNESS and RESPECT!