Searching for a new routine

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MrMatt

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Well since everyone I've spoken to basically took a steaming dump on my 5x5 I had designed, and I assume most of you here know more than I on the topic of body building, I'm now searching for something new to try for a routine. I was trying a 5x5 due to time constraints. I really can only get to the gym MWF, and MAYBE Saturday if I don't work. (2 jobs, 20hrs/week in class, 20hrs/week studying).

For reference, here's the 5x5 I was doing (reg park style, where the last 3 sets of each 5x5 were VERY close to your 5 rep max. Move up 5 lbs when you can complete all sets of 5 for an exercise):
M: Deadlifts, Benching, DB Rows
W: Front Squats, Benching, Pullups
F: Deadlifts, Benching, DB Rows



My current strong points: huge ass & hamstrings, and my quads are well developed. My biceps as well are disproportionately large. My back has some decent thickness.

My current weaknesses: Despite having a bit of thickness on my back, I have 0 width. None. I went from being 160 lbs several years ago, to as much as 210 after a recent bulk. I have also gone from not being able to do more than 4 pullups at bodyweight, to being able to do 17-20 depending on how much I weighed at the time. The result? Barely an inch on my lat spread. I also apparently have a relatively undeveloped lower back. Third, my calves are a bit under-developed. I feel like they're shorter than most people's as well, so not sure if that makes things harder or easier. Also, despite having a decent ass & hamstrings I can't squat or DL very much (1RM's on squatting about 350, DL, around 450).

I'd like to develop some sort of routine that addresses my weaknesses. I'll listen to any suggestions, but please don't suggest rack-chins. I've tried them dozens of times and I can not get them to focus even the slightest on my lats. My biceps get hit so hard by them that they cramp up mid-set. I've tried every trick in the book on them and gotten nothing out of them.
 

brikis98

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Jul 5, 2005
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Why the hell were you deadlifting twice a week, benching 3 times a week and squatting just once?

Anyways, is hypertrophy your main goal? If so, two intermediate routines I've seen work pretty well are HST and Bill Starr 5x5 (which is an actual 5x5, unlike whatever it is you're doing). As for specific body parts being bigger or smaller, the first thing to mention is that genetics plays a huge role: your biceps/ass/quads might get big really easily, while your lats/calves might not. Not much you can do besides continuing to work hard.

Having said that, I've found the pull-up to produce hypertrophy in the lats better than anything else on the planet. Although hypertrophy has not been my goal these last few years, my lats have gotten WAY bigger from doing Crossfit due to the ridiculous volume of pull-ups we do. Workouts with over 100 pull-ups are routine and we do pull-ups of every variety under the sun: kipping pull-ups, strict pull-ups, chin-ups, L pull-ups, weighted pull-ups, chest to bar pull-ups, clapping pull-ups, and muscle-ups (on rings and on the bar). The last few types are great because you typically have to do them in an explosive manner, which means you recruit more muscle and hence grow more muscle. As for calves, mine are also very short (apparently goes hand in hand with my very flat feet) and I find them to be genetically limited more than most muscles. Calf raises of all kinds (back when I did BB-style routines years ago) did nothing for me in terms of size or performance. More recently, olympic lifts + running/sprinting have helped somewhat in size (my soccer socks definitely fit tighter) and enormously in performance.
 

MrMatt

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Great reply;

I'm actually deadlifting 3x per week right now but was thinking about switching it up to what I wrote in the OP. I'm doing that because I have giant hips & ass, and no back width and subpar development. The deadlifts were to fix that. I'm benching more because my chest lags behind the rest of my body, so it's getting priority.

Reg Park was actually the inventor of the 5x5. Basically let's say your starting 5 rep max on something is 200. You'd do something like 140*5 165*5 190*5 190*5 190*5. When you can do all sets for 5, move up the weights. I like it because there's a lot more volume around your 5 rep max. I tried the bill starr thing for a month and moved backwards really. I could do those workouts 7 days per week. 1 set near my 5 rep max just doesn't do it for me.

I haven't really tried a lot of those pullup varieties, I'm going to have to incorporate them. I found that the only time my lats got any width on them was when I was doing 50 pullups in a workout, maybe if I got closer to 100 and did it a couple times per week.
 

brikis98

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Jul 5, 2005
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I'm actually deadlifting 3x per week right now but was thinking about switching it up to what I wrote in the OP. I'm doing that because I have giant hips & ass, and no back width and subpar development. The deadlifts were to fix that.
Although the deadlift works a huge number of muscles in the body, including the lats, the primary movers in the exercise are the glutes & hamstrings. If those are already huge on you, then doing more deadlifts is only going to keep making them bigger. On the other hand, the lats are mostly doing a static hold the entire time (pulling the bar towards the body) and while that does give them some work, it probably won't make 'em huge. And deadlifting 3x per week is crazy. Most people find that the deadlift thrashes their CNS and fatigues the lower back (which heals slower than most other body parts). Therefore, it is typically hard to recover from deadlifting (heavy) more than 1-2 times a week.

I'm benching more because my chest lags behind the rest of my body, so it's getting priority.
Isn't your bench close to 300 or so? I think the "ideal" lifting numbers are 300 bench, 400 squat, 500 deadlift, so if anything, your squat & deadlift are lagging behind... You do seem to balance the bench with rowing somewhat, but for the safety of your rotator cuffs, I'd suggest changing at least one of those days to overhead press (which still helps pressing strength, but uses the shoulder musculature more evenly).

Reg Park was actually the inventor of the 5x5. Basically let's say your starting 5 rep max on something is 200. You'd do something like 140*5 165*5 190*5 190*5 190*5. When you can do all sets for 5, move up the weights. I like it because there's a lot more volume around your 5 rep max. I tried the bill starr thing for a month and moved backwards really. I could do those workouts 7 days per week. 1 set near my 5 rep max just doesn't do it for me.
My concern was not with the rep/set scheme you use, but your exercise selection, as explained above. The only reason the Bill Starr 5x5 program uses ascending sets (ie, increasing weight each set) is because most intermediates can't recover from doing sets across (same weight each set). If you can, then do sets across, but keep the exercises more evenly distributed over your body.

I haven't really tried a lot of those pullup varieties, I'm going to have to incorporate them. I found that the only time my lats got any width on them was when I was doing 50 pullups in a workout, maybe if I got closer to 100 and did it a couple times per week.
A couple things to remember:

* Work up to it gradually. If you suddenly do 100 pull-ups in a workout, you'll be left extremely sore and unable to do pull-ups in the next few workouts, which is counterproductive.

* Lots of CF workouts use kipping pull-ups, which makes it much easier to bang out so many damn pull-ups. This is not "cheating" - rather, it is a different exercise, in the same way that a push press is not "cheating" compared to an OH press. It is still tremendously effective at building lat strength & size and in some ways, even superior, due to the explosive nature of the exercise.

* The intensity of CF workouts likely plays a role too. The workouts aren't just "do 100 pull-ups at your leisure". Instead, they are typically done "for time", which means you are trying to complete the entire workout as fast as you possibly can. For example, the workout "Murph" is:

For time:
* 1 mile Run
* 100 Pull-ups
* 200 Push-ups
* 300 Squats
* 1 mile Run

Partition the pull-ups, push-ups, and squats as needed. Start and finish with a mile run.

Most people do the middle part by doing 20 sets of 5 pull-ups, 10 push-ups and 15 squats. This way, you never approach muscular failure for any exercise, but still get through a huge volume in a very short time.
 
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MrMatt

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I just realized; My wednesday workout is actually F. Squats, Seated Presses, Pullups. I didn't realize I wrote bench in the OP. But point taken still. I'm going to cut back to M & F deadlifting ( I think I can handle it for now). Front Squats for quad development...then maybe work up to 100 pullups on M&F, and DB Rows on Wednesday.


btw, those clap pullps are intense. Just looked them up on youtube.
 

brikis98

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btw, those clap pullps are intense. Just looked them up on youtube.
If you know how to kip or do a pull-up explosively, they aren't that hard, but constantly catching your bodyweight tends to beat up the hands pretty badly. They are good practice to develop the explosiveness needed for a muscle-up, but once you actually learn to do the muscle-up, it is a far superior exercise.
 
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