Sean Hannity tonight clashed with radical London imam Anjem Choudary

[Orignal Earl]

Reading, life experiences, similar to all of us I suppose

Ah ok
From my experience people can vary a lot on that though.

People who try and draw a parallel between Christianity and Islam are demonstrably ignorant of both of them. They suffer severely from the dunning Kruger effect.

What do you mean by "try and draw a parallel between Christianity and Islam"?

 

[werepossum]

Sharia Law is followed and practiced by Muslims everyday in the US and always has been.
It seems a lot of people have been convinced that all Muslims want to bring the type of Sharia Law practiced in a couple of countries in the Middle East here

There is no "kind of Sharia". There is but one Sharia, with its degree of implementation limited by how much power the evil people have in a particular place.

Peace loving people... as in our present elected officials who stand in-between a frightened populace and their sense of security and vengeance. We hold back our power, we sit in deserts and play cop instead of conquering them Roman style. There's a FAR greater bloodshed that we are more than capable of. Peace loving people are those of us advocating an alternative to wholesale violence when facing this clash of civilizations.

I for one listened to the folks on this board and have come to understand there may be Muslims who would work with us towards peace. The media alone does not give that impression. They leave people with a sense that Islam equals Terrorism. They fan the flames. To counter that message we need to work with our Muslim immigrants to put a Muslim face on counter-terrorism. To let a frightened populace understand that the pending war to eliminate a terrorist threat should not necessarily be targeted at Islam in general.

Peace loving people will work towards building a cross-culture coalition that sees terrorists isolated and peaceful cohabitation flourish. Such efforts grow weaker with every act of violence as people look for easy answers when the media gives them simple messages.

I disagree about the media; they go out of their way to avoid associated Islamic terrorists with Islam, in the same way they go out of their way to identify Christianity when some radical Christian kills someone or blows up something. Compare the New York Daily article linked in the other thread, where Boco Haram could be animal rights activists or Christians as far as the reader is informed, with this article from the same paper. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...d-fight-lord-resistance-army-article-1.964544

LRA leader Joseph Kony claims to be a medium channeling the Christian God.

One group of terrorists is kidnapping, raping and murdering to establish its twisted version of Christianity, and this gets pointed out. One group of terrorists is kidnapping, raping and murdering to establish its twisted version of Islam, and this gets pointedly ignored. Can't get a better comparison than that.

Blasphemy laws in Pakistan allow capital punishment. That is for shit we regulary have on tv here and can choose to ignore.

People who try and draw a parallel between Christianity and Islam are demonstrably ignorant of both of them. They suffer severely from the dunning Kruger effect.

Exactly. Islam needs a reformation like Christianity had, for the Old Testament isn't really much better than the Quran so the Western liberal movement led to discarding the worst parts in favor of emphasizing the better parts, emphasizing "love thy brother" rather than "kill the homo before G-d destroys our city in a hail of brimstone". It's a good thing.

One could argue that most Muslims have already experienced this personally, by layering Western or other non-Islamic values onto Islam. Even some Muslim clerics are beginning to emphasize Muhammad's earlier teachings of brotherhood rather than his later teachings of death and oppression. Unfortunately the widespread belief today is that Muhammad being infallible, G-d must have changed his mind.

 

[Dari]

And maybe the West should have stayed home instead of invading, looting and harassing the entire world for the last 1000 years. Like it's been said, "You reap what you sow."

It's interesting to see many immigrants that are now in Europe come from those same countries that the West invaded and pillaged for centuries. Everything has consequences.

Are you saying they wouldn't be here if we never invaded their homeland or these attacks would not have happened? Funny cause I don't remember Canada doing any of the things you mentioned and they've gotten attacked on their soil. If it's the latter then why is the bloodshed so much worse in their homeland?

 

[StrangerGuy]

Are you saying they wouldn't be here if we never invaded their homeland or these attacks would not have happened? Funny cause I don't remember Canada doing any of the things you mentioned and they've gotten attacked on their soil. If it's the latter then why is the bloodshed so much worse in their homeland?

We all know Muslim-dominated nations won't be oppressing their own minorities if if the West didn't interfered with their affairs. Funny how Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan didn't turn into a religious and economic wasteland despite all the heavy handed U.S interference.

 

[Jaskalas]

I disagree about the media; they go out of their way to avoid associated Islamic terrorists with Islam, in the same way they go out of their way to identify Christianity when some radical Christian kills someone or blows up something. Compare the New York Daily article linked in the other thread, where Boco Haram could be animal rights activists or Christians as far as the reader is informed, with this article from the same paper. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...d-fight-lord-resistance-army-article-1.964544

One group of terrorists is kidnapping, raping and murdering to establish its twisted version of Christianity, and this gets pointed out. One group of terrorists is kidnapping, raping and murdering to establish its twisted version of Islam, and this gets pointedly ignored. Can't get a better comparison than that.

Well... you still know Boco Haram is Islamic. Terrorism and violence is reported all the time, even if the association is kept quiet, we still know who it is. Yet Islamic outreach, their attempts at peace and cohabitation are something I never hear of, or learn about.

When it comes to Islam I really only know of Terrorism from the media.
I want to learn something better...
I want everyone on the street to know better...

We cannot stand by Islam to combat Terrorism if we think Islam IS Terrorism.
Outreach efforts are entirely quiet and/or non-existent. That needs to massively change.

 

[Dari]

Well... you still know Boco Haram is Islamic. Terrorism and violence is reported all the time, even if the association is kept quiet, we still know who it is. Yet Islamic outreach, their attempts at peace and cohabitation are something I never hear of, or learn about.

When it comes to Islam I really only know of Terrorism from the media.
I want to learn something better...
I want everyone on the street to know better...

We cannot stand by Islam to combat Terrorism if we think Islam IS Terrorism.
Outreach efforts are entirely quiet and/or non-existent. That needs to massively change.

I think when you have this much violence. This much anger. This much terror, within and without the Islamic world, the problem is Islam itself. No amount of outreach can rewrite the Koran. Killing about 150 children in Pakistan; 2000 villagers in Nigeria; and cartoonists in France, all within the past couple of weeks, no less, means that the extremism has to be radiating from somewhere and it's the beliefs. I mean, look at all the countries that have participated in the Arab Spring. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM has either regressed to dictatorship or become a failed state with rebels or Islamists controlling huge portions of the country or government. The radiation stems from the toxic mix of politics and religion in Islam. They are two sides of the same coin. Separating the two is not possible. Even in Turkey, you have the president there saying that a woman is not equal to a man and her only goal in life is motherhood. There is no amount of outreach that can resolve this. Some of the people that carry out the worst atrocities were potheads and drinkers in college. Now, they're the worst jihadists after returning to Islam.

 

[raildogg]

Are you saying they wouldn't be here if we never invaded their homeland or these attacks would not have happened? Funny cause I don't remember Canada doing any of the things you mentioned and they've gotten attacked on their soil. If it's the latter then why is the bloodshed so much worse in their homeland?

I'm not sure. When a country invades another country and controls it for centuries, it leaves a mark. The French left their mark in Algeria and other places, the British left theirs in Asia, Africa and the Mid East, etc. So the countries that were looted and pillaged by the Western countries tend to have some connections with the invading countries. That's just one example.

Canada and America are different and cannot be compared to Europe. So let's just leave it at, please. These countries are younger and haven't had time to take advantage of weaker countries yet (except for America). I guess America is doing its best to catch up to the European in terms of blood on its hands.

As for the bloodshed in the "Muslim" countries, you can look at a lot of countries and point out their bloodshed. It's humans for you - petty little humans. Maybe this is a phase for many Muslim countries. They don't know what to do right now - whether to imitate the West like the Eastern countries are doing or whether to imitate the West and yet hold grudges against it.

Look at the hypocrites in the Arab world. They call themselves Muslim yet they are imitating the West (and overdoing it) in terms of excess expenditures on pleasure. They abuse their labor that comes from the Eastern countries. They do all sorts of nasty things. Yet, simply by wearing a garb and having a beard, they're suddenly Muslims. What a pathetic joke.

 

[Subyman]

There is a fundamental difference between wishing others would convert and threatening them with death or torture if they do not. More than that is the idea that one should be subject to trial and execution for converting from Islam to another religion or rejecting religion all together. That is a substantial difference. We here on the forums like to share our ideas, but I would not consider ourselves to be equivalent to those who would murder for disagreement, not because of a difference of worldview in terms of religion or philosophy but that his worldview would result in executions.

It would only be scary to the unbeliever. From their world view, they believe in the direct word and, hence, have no fear of execution because they follow the Sharia Law. They believe completely in it. Those not a believer would be immensely afraid all the time.