Seagate & WD woes because of Thailand flooding.

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Darknite39

Senior member
May 18, 2004
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I thought it was the case that a particular part (perhaps HDD motors or platters) are manufactured mainly in Thailand, and that part would be the effective bottleneck for all suppliers? On the scale of millions of drives, I'm wondering how much ramping up production at other plants will be able to compensate for the loss.

If anything, this has prodded me to finally RMA my dead Seagate 2x 400 and 2x 500 GB IDE drives to supplement my current HDD space. I was planning to get a couple more 2TB Sammy's in a month or 2, but that doesn't seem too likely at the moment.
 

Emulex

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2001
9,759
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all the big resellers have eaten up stock on the good ones (RE4) - lovely. guess i'll have to stick to the 900gb sas drives for now.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
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Doing a little research was kind of enlightening on this whole HD situation. Articles are saying that up to 40% of the Thai HD production has been affected by the flooding. The interesting thing is that other articles say that 25% of the world's HD production is in Thailand....

And further down in the article. "...hard drive motors. 70-80% of the world’s supply is made by Nidec, which has been crippled by the floods and does not carry inventory in its distribution channel." It's not just the hard drive factories, it's also the part suppliers.
 

code65536

Golden Member
Mar 7, 2006
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Not to sound skeptical, but it sure looks like another case of speculating and profiteering that we've seen happen in plenty of other industries when things like this happen.

First, as already mentioned, although the "direct hit" is not that big, the "indirect hit" is much bigger (motors, heads, etc.) and we really are looking at losing about half of the HDD production.

Second, the amount that prices will go up by for a certain drop in supply is not linear. It depends a lot on the elasticity of the demand. A great example would be oil. Demand for oil is very inelastic. So a doubling of oil prices will not result in a halving of oil demand (and we know that from experience). You'll have to raise oil prices by a LOT to cause a significant drop in consumption.

The problem is HDD demand is inherently inelastic (not as much as oil, of course). The direct retail market (Newegg, Best Buy, etc.) is probably fairly elastic. But most of the HDDs don't go to Newegg; they get shipped to places like Dell. For computer makers, a doubling of HDD prices will probably result only in, say, 10% increase in the price of their product; the fact that people only indirectly buy HDDs as a part of a larger system naturally makes it inelastic.

Also, this inelasticity increases with the deepness of production cuts. If gas prices double, you probably won't mind cutting back on weekend fishing trips, but it would take a lot more than a doubling of gas prices to get you to stop doing something essential, like getting to work. The deeper the cuts in supply, the harder it is to find demand that's "expendable".

In the end, prices will have to increase enough to squelch demand by almost half, and frankly, given these circumstances, I'm expecting a lot more than a mere doubling or even tripling of prices.
 
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Ms. DICKINSON

Golden Member
May 17, 2010
1,221
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bit.ly
At local Fry's store. Seagate 2TB green drive going for 77$.

6IEiwwhE
 
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Tsavo

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2009
2,645
37
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Bought a Samsung MP4 500 GB to replace the Hitachi unit in my Thinkpad that had some weird acoustic resonance issues with my 2nd PC. IT was $70 when I bought it versus $50 a week before.

No more weird acoustics with the 2nd PC, but good god, this drive is SLOW. It benches well...very well, but in actual usage it falls flat on it face. It fails at anything above light concurrent requests and even during light loads it is just slower than floppy drives I had.

To give you an idea of how bad the Spinpoint MP4 is, I have a ~4GB folder on my main desktop. I can do anything on any of my other PC's while xferring this folder and the xfer never goes below 100 mb/s. The same folder on the Samsung MP4 with the laptop doing nothing is 60 mb/s. If I do *anything" on the laptop and the xfer drops to 12 mb/s.

The Hitachi in the same laptop would see speeds as low as 75 mb/s on a bad day. I use Samsung F1 drives in all my other PC's, so it's a bit of a shock to see how utterly bad their mobile drives are.

It's quiet. It's cool. It's those things only because it sucks at moving data.
 

zuffy

Senior member
Feb 28, 2000
684
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I feel so damn lucky I got my 3 x 3TB Hitachi for $110 each a few weeks ago for my NAS. Saved over $300!
 

Coup27

Platinum Member
Jul 17, 2010
2,140
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Any word on when companies will recover and prices go down?
I think a couple of months at least. Thats only if people who's factories haven't been effected can source parts from elsewhere to continue production.
 
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poohbear

Platinum Member
Mar 11, 2003
2,284
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no sooner than 8 months..

8 months for prices to go back to normal? If the flood is resolved in the next few weeks, why would it take 8 months? any explanation or logic, or u just pulled that figure out of thin air?
 

Itchrelief

Golden Member
Dec 20, 2005
1,398
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8 months for prices to go back to normal? If the flood is resolved in the next few weeks, why would it take 8 months? any explanation or logic, or u just pulled that figure out of thin air?

The same reason (plus many more) that if a fire burns your house down, you're not suddenly all hunky-dory the day after.
 

corkyg

Elite Member | Peripherals
Super Moderator
Mar 4, 2000
27,370
239
106
It will take weeks to asses the damage, and then repair or replace damaged production machinery and tools, many of which will have to be ordered and built. Concurrently, infrastructure repairs will have to take place. After that, parts production can resume, but the logistical pipeline will also take time to fill. Resolving a flood of this magnitude is not just a matter of the water receding. 8 months might even be optimistic.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
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It will take weeks to asses the damage, and then repair or replace damaged production machinery and tools, many of which will have to be ordered and built. Concurrently, infrastructure repairs will have to take place. After that, parts production can resume, but the logistical pipeline will also take time to fill. Resolving a flood of this magnitude is not just a matter of the water receding. 8 months might even be optimistic.
And I can't imagine that it's a lot of low-tech machinery being used to make hard drive motors. These things need to have very high-precision bearings, and last through billions of revolutions in their lifetime.
12hrs a day, 7200rpm, 3 years = ~1.9 billion revs.
Then think about a server-class hard drive, doing 10k rpms, 24/7. And a lot of that specialized industrial equipment is built when it's ordered - there aren't going to be warehouses anywhere that store lots of Acme Hard Drive Motor Assembly Line In-A-Box. ;)
 

SuperSix

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,872
2
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8 months for prices to go back to normal? If the flood is resolved in the next few weeks, why would it take 8 months? any explanation or logic, or u just pulled that figure out of thin air?

Read the link that's been posted twice so far, and the comments under the column. This is one of many good articles on it.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/301873-thailand-flooding-will-ravage-tech-earnings-into-2012

Or:
http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile...why-thailand-floods-mean-pricier-hard-drives/[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

or
http://www.crn.com/news/storage/231...siness-as-customers-scramble-for-supplies.htm

or
[FONT=&quot]http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomcoug...loods-will-impact-hard-disk-drive-components/[/FONT]

We may never see such low pricing, or it may be years before they get as low as they were.
 

SuperSix

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,872
2
0
And I can't imagine that it's a lot of low-tech machinery being used to make hard drive motors. These things need to have very high-precision bearings, and last through billions of revolutions in their lifetime.
12hrs a day, 7200rpm, 3 years = ~1.9 billion revs.
Then think about a server-class hard drive, doing 10k rpms, 24/7. And a lot of that specialized industrial equipment is built when it's ordered - there aren't going to be warehouses anywhere that store lots of Acme Hard Drive Motor Assembly Line In-A-Box. ;)


This. And the company that makes the assembly and testing machines was far behind schedule BEFORE the disaster. People seem to think you yank these machines out, point a blow dryer at them, plug them in, and start cranking out drives. Even IF you get to that point, your workforce either can't get to work, or won't come to work. It's a horrible mess.
 

pitz

Senior member
Feb 11, 2010
461
0
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I suspect this problem will take years to resolve. Especially with the industry in the hands of a mere 3 players these days, who, more or less, control everything, and face the spectre of SSDs eroding a very significant chunk of the future market (hence, little reason to invest in a lot of replaement capacity if its lifetime is going to be limited).
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
13,365
16
0
I think the threat of SSDs gaining market share will motivate them to catch up to demand as fast as they can.
 

birthdaymonkey

Golden Member
Oct 4, 2010
1,176
3
81
I just stocked up before the flood, so I currently have six 2 TB drives. I'm starting to wonder, however, if there will be any issues with warranty replacement should one of them fail in the next year or so.
 

e-drood

Member
Jun 15, 2011
169
0
0
"others" linked bet eight (8) yrs (?) time to recover + stabilize market pricing (aggressive competitive lo-ball pricing) --- I bet there will be new production capacity created elsewhere in east asia before massive new monetary investment in Thailand - labor rates rising, politically inspired unrest & make-up/form of nearterm future gov't uncertain

seagate began investment program in different political climate (Thailand) - present flooding is incidental & simply permits setting aside any existing "commitments" industry-to-gov't...

fyi: opening day of shangri-la hotel on shore of chao phya river - I was having my breakfast on riverside veranda watching river water rising to marble pavilion floor --- the wait staff hurriedly placed duckboards under my feet and my breakfast continued... the Thai endure natural disasters with good humor but the future course of their historical gov't is rather uncertain...

you have experienced lowest mech hdd prices -nand flash added to hi-density platters will drive market prices (modestly) upward in the nearterm
 

Locut0s

Lifer
Nov 28, 2001
22,205
43
91
Damn wish I was back working at NCIX to see what my fellow sales guys are saying, and how they are dealing with this!? I can remember selling 2TB green drives for as little as $69 or less during some NCIX sales. A quick look now shows them going for $169 !! D: :(

And here I was thinking of building a file server. :( Looks like instead I'll have deRAID my 4TB array RAID 1 array so I can get at the other 2TB. :(
 

Tsavo

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2009
2,645
37
91
Dang, just looked up the drive I ordered a week ago and bought for $70, and it's now $110. :eek: