• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Scythe Ninja Plus Rev B - Performance Disappointment

RonAKA

Member
I made the mistake of downloading Intel TAT, and finding out a couple of things. First I had to slow my CPU down to handle the 100% thermal load test. Second the temperature got too hot for my liking. The core temps were hitting 75 C+ in only a minute or so.

So I put in the Scythe Ninja expecting a big improvement. The result was a very marginal improvement from the stock Intel HSF, and in short very disappointing - not at all worth the $$ and effort to change it. At idle there is no measureable difference between the Intel HSF and the Scythe Ninja. Under TAT full load it still hits 75+C but it takes 3-4 minutes - but it still is not fully leveled off. I shut it down at that point.


So did I miss something? I used Arctic Silver 5 thermal compound carefully applied using the process in these instructions from Acrtic Silver. I was very careful to clean both the CPU and HS. I see the notes about it taking 200 hours for the thermal compound to reach peak performance, but am thinking this is just to put me off until I forget about what I paid for it, and the performance I did not get.

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruct/as5/ins_as5_intel_dual_wcap.pdf

The only thing that I can think of is my Antec Sonata II case. I was using the cooling air ducting to bring fresh cool air directly in to feed the Intel HSF. There was no room for this with the Ninja, and I had to leave it out. It would seem the benefit of this ducting is not trivial, and almost makes up for the much smaller Intel HSF. Now makes me wonder if the ideal solution is a lower profile HSF that can still use the intake ducting. I'm running the case fan on low, same as before. Possible that a higher speed and noise will improve this cooler more than it did with the Intel.

 
See what your temps are with the case open. If that considerably lowers your cpu temp I would be inclined to install a front intake fan. The specs at newegg talk about a filter, Where is it? in front or in that duct? You could easily mount a 120mm intake fam in that side panel or in the bottom if nessesary.
 
on my p180 running my rear exhaust fan on medium with my ninja made a huge difference. having a front intake fan on or off made no difference.

i also modded my ninja by using a tt bolt thru-kit to mount it as well as lapping my ihs. if your ihs is concave then that is a major issue.
 
I bought a ninja and had crappy performance like you're seeing. I RMA'd it and the replacement works great! The second ninja had a very secure feel when I clicked the intel clippy-things down. The first one never felt tight like that.
 
Originally posted by: swtethan
temps?

On start up now after being out and the computer shut down for a few hours:

TAT (idle)

Core 0 and Core 1 - 40-43C (room ambient about 21 C)

SpeedFan & Asus (idle)

System - 32C
CPU - 35-37C

SpeedFan shows Core 0 and 1 to be about the same at idle as the with the Intel HSF - 21-22C - which seems obviously incorrect.

As I noted above under 100% TAT load (1.4V and 3 GHz) it hits 75C in 3 minutes or so, while the Intel HSF got to the same point in about 1 min. Throttled down to 2650 MHz, it seems to settle out long term at about 75C.


 
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
See what your temps are with the case open. If that considerably lowers your cpu temp I would be inclined to install a front intake fan. The specs at newegg talk about a filter, Where is it? in front or in that duct? You could easily mount a 120mm intake fam in that side panel or in the bottom if nessesary.
Yes, that would be worth a try. On the Sonata II you can fit a 120mm intake fan at the front, and yes there is a filter there. What you read is that this will be noisy. The easy thing to try is to increase the case exhast fan speed, but I'm reluctant to do that. With the stock Intel HSF it made an insignificant difference in temps, but made the fan noise noticeable.

 
Originally posted by: idiotekniQues
on my p180 running my rear exhaust fan on medium with my ninja made a huge difference. having a front intake fan on or off made no difference.

i also modded my ninja by using a tt bolt thru-kit to mount it as well as lapping my ihs. if your ihs is concave then that is a major issue.
I'll have to try the exhaust fan speed, as I suspect as you found the exhaust flow may be the limitation. Probably what I really need is to be able to change that fan speed when the CPU gets into trouble. Not sure how to do that, as the motherboard only seems to want to change the CPU fan speed based on CPU temp.

 
I peak at about 58C running Orthos, although it usually hangs around 53-56 running Orthos. This is the CPU value as reported by SpeedFan and Asus PC Probe. Core Temp, some other program recommended elsewhere on these forums, tells me my CPU is in the high 60s. Which should I believe?

P5B Deluxe
E4300
Scythe Ninja using supplied fan. Applied AC5 to CPU.
CPU only at 333, 1.40 Vcore, DRAM at DDR2-833.

While I haven't left it on overnight yet, it seems stable here. trying various values at 366 and above cause it to reboot, or not load XP.

I thought I would get better clocks getting what I thought was a top cooler.

Are my temps to hot with this cooler?
 
fyi there are issues with TAT and the 4300 series. do some searches for it for more detailed info. it reports them off by 10c or so.
 
The Ninja Rev B has a pretty crappy mounting system. The push pins don't always give you enough pressure for good contact. Try pushing on the top of the heatsink and see if temps go down. I was seeing 50C idle on my 6400 until I pushed a little, then temps dropped to 38C or so. I ended up modding the mounting system similar to this http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117054

My idle temps are now 35-36C and top out at 46C as shown by TAT, with the fan running at 5V.
 
Originally posted by: RonAKA
"Try pushing on the top of the heatsink and see if temps go down."

Thanks, I will try that to see what happens.

Do report back. I've had issues with my Ninja as well - part of it turned out to be the mounting running up against a large capacitor on my board, required some modification, and that helped, but I'm always looking for improvements 😀. It's 70F in my room right now, and the CPU idles at about 42-43, hits 56-58 with 100% load from TAT.

Pushing on the top of the heatsink did nothing for me... I gave it a decent amount of force for 2 minues or so and didn't notice much.
 
I have the rev-a ninja that has the backplate. It keeps my 6600 at around 53c orthos load at 3.2ghz. My roomate got the rev-b, took him about 6 or 7 tries of mounting it to get it on good, and his temps are similar to mine. Those stupid plastic clips are a pain.
 
Originally posted by: o2brew
The Ninja Rev B has a pretty crappy mounting system. The push pins don't always give you enough pressure for good contact. Try pushing on the top of the heatsink and see if temps go down. I was seeing 50C idle on my 6400 until I pushed a little, then temps dropped to 38C or so. I ended up modding the mounting system similar to this http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117054

My idle temps are now 35-36C and top out at 46C as shown by TAT, with the fan running at 5V.

There is nothing wrong with the push pins on the Ninja Rev B!!
There are several issues at work here....
Does the OP have a front intake fan???
Believe it or not it makes a huge difference in the temps.
Just a note using AS5 does not guarantee you low temps!!
The thermal paste that came with my Ninja is just as good as AS5...
Does the Op have proper airflow to begin with?
Or are cables and other things blocking his airflow?
Also the Op could have a heatsink that is not absolutely flat on the bottom,
In that case you have 2 options...RMA the heatsink or lapp the bottom of the heatsink!!

Good Luck!!

 
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: o2brew
The Ninja Rev B has a pretty crappy mounting system. The push pins don't always give you enough pressure for good contact. Try pushing on the top of the heatsink and see if temps go down. I was seeing 50C idle on my 6400 until I pushed a little, then temps dropped to 38C or so. I ended up modding the mounting system similar to this http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117054

My idle temps are now 35-36C and top out at 46C as shown by TAT, with the fan running at 5V.

There is nothing wrong with the push pins on the Ninja Rev B!!
There are several issues at work here....
Does the OP have a front intake fan???
Believe it or not it makes a huge difference in the temps.
Just a note using AS5 does not guarantee you low temps!!
The thermal paste that came with my Ninja is just as good as AS5...
Does the Op have proper airflow to begin with?
Or are cables and other things blocking his airflow?
Also the Op could have a heatsink that is not absolutely flat on the bottom,
In that case you have 2 options...RMA the heatsink or lapp the bottom of the heatsink!!

Good Luck!!

Have you actualy tried to install an rev-b ninja while the motherboard is in the case? 2 of the push pins are almost impossible to gain access to let alone make sure they are fully seated..maybe if the heatsink wasn't over top of the pins it wouldn't be so bad, but when they are covered by the heatsink itself, they are very difficult to get to.
 
Originally posted by: stevty2889
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: o2brew
The Ninja Rev B has a pretty crappy mounting system. The push pins don't always give you enough pressure for good contact. Try pushing on the top of the heatsink and see if temps go down. I was seeing 50C idle on my 6400 until I pushed a little, then temps dropped to 38C or so. I ended up modding the mounting system similar to this http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117054

My idle temps are now 35-36C and top out at 46C as shown by TAT, with the fan running at 5V.

There is nothing wrong with the push pins on the Ninja Rev B!!
There are several issues at work here....
Does the OP have a front intake fan???
Believe it or not it makes a huge difference in the temps.
Just a note using AS5 does not guarantee you low temps!!
The thermal paste that came with my Ninja is just as good as AS5...
Does the Op have proper airflow to begin with?
Or are cables and other things blocking his airflow?
Also the Op could have a heatsink that is not absolutely flat on the bottom,
In that case you have 2 options...RMA the heatsink or lapp the bottom of the heatsink!!

Good Luck!!

Have you actualy tried to install an rev-b ninja while the motherboard is in the case? 2 of the push pins are almost impossible to gain access to let alone make sure they are fully seated..maybe if the heatsink wasn't over top of the pins it wouldn't be so bad, but when they are covered by the heatsink itself, they are very difficult to get to.

Use a thing, long flathead screwdriver 🙂. After I figured that out, it became one of the easiest heatsinks to install with the motherboard in the case that I've used.
 
Originally posted by: NYHoustonmanUse a thing, long flathead screwdriver 🙂. After I figured that out, it became one of the easiest heatsinks to install with the motherboard in the case that I've used.

You are exactly correct. I researched this HSF fully before buying it, and from what I saw was prepared for the worst. Once I figured out how to "load" the push pins, it was a piece of cake. You need someone to hold the light so you can see down through the slot cut in the heat sink plates, but all you really need to do is line it up and push down with a "long thin screwdriver". I did it twice. Once without thermal paste to see if it worked, and a second time for real.

I still need to do the test I promised above. There is some possibility the line of capacitors around is holding the HSF up. I need to get a mirror to see for sure. Then there is this tip from Scythe, specific to the P5B board. I don't get it. See link below. Will have to look again, but as I see it you have to line up the heat sink for flow from the fan through to the back case exhaust fan. Could it be that you have to install it 90 degrees from that? Don't get the significance of the X and O views.

http://www.scythe-usa.com/support/cpu/0...injaRev.B775socketinstalltaiontip.html

 
Originally posted by: RonAKA
I still need to do the test I promised above. There is some possibility the line of capacitors around is holding the HSF up. I need to get a mirror to see for sure. Then there is this tip from Scythe, specific to the P5B board. I don't get it. See link below. Will have to look again, but as I see it you have to line up the heat sink for flow from the fan through to the back case exhaust fan. Could it be that you have to install it 90 degrees from that? Don't get the significance of the X and O views.

http://www.scythe-usa.com/support/cpu/0...injaRev.B775socketinstalltaiontip.html

Seems to me they are refering to the shape of the mounting plate, possibly the screws warping the plate higher away fom the board? or it it an oval shape? turn the heatsink 90 deg, mount the fan opposite the exaust. just my take on the instruction, not experience!
 
Originally posted by: WoodButcher
Originally posted by: RonAKA
I still need to do the test I promised above. There is some possibility the line of capacitors around is holding the HSF up. I need to get a mirror to see for sure. Then there is this tip from Scythe, specific to the P5B board. I don't get it. See link below. Will have to look again, but as I see it you have to line up the heat sink for flow from the fan through to the back case exhaust fan. Could it be that you have to install it 90 degrees from that? Don't get the significance of the X and O views.

http://www.scythe-usa.com/support/cpu/0...injaRev.B775socketinstalltaiontip.html

Seems to me they are refering to the shape of the mounting plate, possibly the screws warping the plate higher away fom the board? or it it an oval shape? turn the heatsink 90 deg, mount the fan opposite the exaust. just my take on the instruction, not experience!

Indeed, the issue I had with my 680i was that the mounting hardware (the metal bracket thing that you screw on) was pushing down on a couple of large capacitors, so I wasn't getting good contact... Doing that alone has lowered temps a good 5-10 degrees C at full load using TAT. You can just detach that thing and see what happens when you put it in place. Cutting it back was kind of a pain in the ass (ended up using an attachment for a power drill), but it was worth it.

At some point I'll give this test another try as well... Now that I remember it I'm not sure if I tried it at idle or at load.

Also, RonAKA, make sure you're twisting the push things clockwise when they're down to secure them in place - you mentioned a general screwdriver and it takes a flathead to do that (easily, anyway). Just want to make sure you're not risking having the thing fall off 🙂.
 
Fianlly got around to trying a few things. Taking the cover off improved temps, which seems to confirm the HSF is not getting enough air. Pushing down on the HSF did nothing for the temps. I also got a mirror and confirmed the capacitors had a lot of room and were not touching the heat pipes on the HSF. With more cool air being the only thing that seems to help I took some aluminum clothes dryer exhaust ducting and bent it up to make a fresh air supply to the fan on the HS. Since the fan is on the back side this is a bit of a challenge, but I eventually got a reasonable fit. The results:

At Idle deg. C
As is, Cover off, With Duct & cover on
CPU: 33.5, 31.5, 31.5
TAT Core 0: 42, 39, 39
TAT Core 1: 39, 37, 37

100% TAT Load, CPU Throttel to 2650 after 5 minutes
Cover off, With Duct & cover on
CPU: 64, 65
Core 0: 69, 69
Core 1: 67, 69

So essentially the ducting had the same effect as leaving the cover off. This leaves me totally unimpressed with this HSF. It really only gained 2-3 degrees at best over the stock Intel HSF combined with the Sonata II standard case duct.

My only option left to try and get better temps with a reasonable noise level most of the time is to put the rear case exhaust fan on auto control. Will have to play with that. Does anyone know what temperature the Asus fan speed control uses to control the case fan? Ideally I would want it controlled by the CPU temp. At least then I could have quiet most of the time, and only noise when the CPU is fully loaded.

 
Back
Top