Scythe Ninja Copper

Quiksilver

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2005
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Originally posted by: swtethan
$70? no thanks

What? It's only $10 more than the TRU12E (excluding the fan) and it comes with a fan and no lapping is required for a flat base. In otherwords same price with less work. :p
 

Quiksilver

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2005
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Anyway...
I wonder when a decent review will show up cause if this thing came beat the tru12e @ $70 it might be with it to some.
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
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Same mounting as old Ninja?

Also no heatpipe heatsink should have ANY kind of fins on its base. This is a flawed design. It traps heat into an area where it cannot be readily removed. The purpose of a heatpipe is to move the heat AWAY from the processor block into the fins where the fan(s) can do their job. Even the mounting contacting the block is taking away some efficiency. The goal is to get as much heat into the heatpipes as possible.

The TRUE will cool better and has more w/cm² capacity than this design.
 

DerwenArtos12

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Apr 7, 2003
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It's over 1kg! we were just talking about how the next step is going to be solid copper and over 1kg in another thread, damn were good!
 

Quiksilver

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Jul 3, 2005
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Originally posted by: Rubycon
Same mounting as old Ninja?

Also no heatpipe heatsink should have ANY kind of fins on its base. This is a flawed design. It traps heat into an area where it cannot be readily removed. The purpose of a heatpipe is to move the heat AWAY from the processor block into the fins where the fan(s) can do their job. Even the mounting contacting the block is taking away some efficiency. The goal is to get as much heat into the heatpipes as possible.

The TRUE will cool better and has more w/cm² capacity than this design.

When you say fins on the base are you referring to the small bit of aluminum block they have before the all copper starts? I'm also wondering if they would have just scaled up to 8 heatpipes (thus requiring a larger width) would it of still been the same when comparing the tru12e and this.

It's over 1kg! we were just talking about how the next step is going to be solid copper and over 1kg in another thread, damn were good!

less than 1Kg if you exclude the fan :p
 

Rubycon

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Aug 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: Quiksilver


When you say fins on the base are you referring to the small bit of aluminum block they have before the all copper starts? I'm also wondering if they would have just scaled up to 8 heatpipes (thus requiring a larger width) would it of still been the same when comparing the tru12e and this.

The small conventional heatsink that's bonded to the cpu block just above the heatpipe attachment point. That actually reduces performance.

 

PliotronX

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 1999
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Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: Quiksilver


When you say fins on the base are you referring to the small bit of aluminum block they have before the all copper starts? I'm also wondering if they would have just scaled up to 8 heatpipes (thus requiring a larger width) would it of still been the same when comparing the tru12e and this.

The small conventional heatsink that's bonded to the cpu block just above the heatpipe attachment point. That actually reduces performance.
It seems logical that the heat should flux through the pipes as quickly as possible for the best results, however I recall a BT mod that involved placing chipsinks on the base that improves performance. This is why Scythe and Enzotech coolers come with sinks on the base. Flies in the face of logic, but there it is. And I've seen others do the same to their BT with similar results (within margin of TIM/mounting error however).
 

Ika

Lifer
Mar 22, 2006
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Wasn't the best design for a CPU cooler said to be aluminum for the fins (for quick heat dissipation) and copper for the main block (for some other reason)?
 

Sheninat0r

Senior member
Jun 8, 2007
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Yep, copper absorbs heat more readily than aluminum but aluminum releases heat more readily than copper. At least, that's what I've been told...
 

PliotronX

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 1999
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No, copper will outperform aluminum in any heatsink of the same design, even when run passive. Aluminum is less dense so it is ideal for making up the fin or pin array for a larger surface area than is possible using copper with the same weight. Hybrid designs are the best compromise in performance and cost/weight. I don't expect the full copper ninja to perform worth its added expense over the original (it's only around $36 now).
 

DerwenArtos12

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Apr 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: PliotronX
No, copper will outperform aluminum in any heatsink of the same design, even when run passive. Aluminum is less dense so it is ideal for making up the fin or pin array for a larger surface area than is possible using copper with the same weight. Hybrid designs are the best compromise in performance and cost/weight. I don't expect the full copper ninja to perform worth its added expense over the original (it's only around $36 now).

Exactly, the only reason aluminum is so widely used it because it's light weight.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
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Originally posted by: Rubycon
The small conventional heatsink that's bonded to the cpu block just above the heatpipe attachment point. That actually reduces performance.

I would have to disagree with you here. You're thinking that the increased bulk just retains more heat, but that isn't true since it is part of an overall cooling system. Just because there is more bulk doesn't mean the heatpipes transfer less heat. Also, it basically adds more surface area. So, heatpipes transfer same heat + more surface area = better overall performance.

At least this is how I see it.

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
Exactly, the only reason aluminum is so widely used it because it's light weight.

... plus lower cost.
 

DerwenArtos12

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: Rubycon
The small conventional heatsink that's bonded to the cpu block just above the heatpipe attachment point. That actually reduces performance.

I would have to disagree with you here. You're thinking that the increased bulk just retains more heat, but that isn't true since it is part of an overall cooling system. Just because there is more bulk doesn't mean the heatpipes transfer less heat. Also, it basically adds more surface area. So, heatpipes transfer same heat + more surface area = better overall performance.

At least this is how I see it.

Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
Exactly, the only reason aluminum is so widely used it because it's light weight.

... plus lower cost.

and yet they charge us $50 and up for the aluminum finned ones.... lol.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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Originally posted by: Rubycon
Same mounting as old Ninja?

Also no heatpipe heatsink should have ANY kind of fins on its base. This is a flawed design. It traps heat into an area where it cannot be readily removed. The purpose of a heatpipe is to move the heat AWAY from the processor block into the fins where the fan(s) can do their job. Even the mounting contacting the block is taking away some efficiency. The goal is to get as much heat into the heatpipes as possible.

The TRUE will cool better and has more w/cm² capacity than this design.

No I believe you are mistaken.
As Zap just stated-- You're thinking that the increased bulk just retains more heat, but that isn't true since it is part of an overall cooling system. Just because there is more bulk doesn't mean the heatpipes transfer less heat. Also, it basically adds more surface area. So, heatpipes transfer same heat + more surface area = better overall performance.


Peac e!!
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
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Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
and yet they charge us $50 and up for the aluminum finned ones.... lol.

I don't think I've paid more than $40 for any of the four Ninjas that I've purchased (though one was a Mini and one refurb).
 

Rubycon

Madame President
Aug 10, 2005
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Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

No I believe you are mistaken.
As Zap just stated-- You're thinking that the increased bulk just retains more heat, but that isn't true since it is part of an overall cooling system. Just because there is more bulk doesn't mean the heatpipes transfer less heat. Also, it basically adds more surface area. So, heatpipes transfer same heat + more surface area = better overall performance.


Peac e!!

I'll trust my source - an engineer that designs thermal solutions for Toshiba - over speculation I read on an internet forum any day. Besides the best coolers (Thermalright) do not use such nonsense. ;)

The link above to a blog site even said adding the little memory heatsinks could show no appreciable gain.

 

DerwenArtos12

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
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Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: DerwenArtos12
and yet they charge us $50 and up for the aluminum finned ones.... lol.

I don't think I've paid more than $40 for any of the four Ninjas that I've purchased (though one was a Mini and one refurb).

I was referring to the whole top end of the high end air cooling market. Sure you can get a tuniq for right about $45 now but, they have a new one with pretty lights that over $50 and the TRU120E even the ultima 90. I just find it ironic that I bought about 1kg of copper in the form of an SLK-900 a few years ago and it set me back about $45, and now I'm buying 700 grams of copper and aluminum for the same price.
 

PliotronX

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 1999
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Originally posted by: Rubycon
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

No I believe you are mistaken.
As Zap just stated-- You're thinking that the increased bulk just retains more heat, but that isn't true since it is part of an overall cooling system. Just because there is more bulk doesn't mean the heatpipes transfer less heat. Also, it basically adds more surface area. So, heatpipes transfer same heat + more surface area = better overall performance.


Peac e!!
The link above to a blog site even said adding the little memory heatsinks could show no appreciable gain.
The point is, I have never seen it hurt performance as you stated above.