Screw consumer reports...this site is better for car info...

[vi edit]

http://auto.consumerguide.com/

Gives break down of each year, recalls of each model year, changes made to each year, common problems for model year, and lists repair costs for commonly replaced/failing parts.

Excellent site for those in the car market!

 

[StageLeft]

So does it also say that domestics suffer from poorer reliability? Of course, but where?

 

[vi edit]

Not exactly, but it does point out that many domestic cars that are 2-5 years old are excellent bargains.

 

[vi edit]

here's where I was looking.

 

[Vette73]

Hate to break it to you but if you looked into it, instead of just repeating some junk you hear from people that don't know what they are talking about, domestics are just as reliable if not more so if you take out sports cars and luxury cars.

A lot of dealerships do repairs to american sports cars that should not be covered and that makes the car look worse, like drive shafts and clutchs on F-Bodies, mustangs, etc...

And I have done repairs to Luxury Jap. cars that were under warrenty but their was no dealer close and they needed their car.

And without even taking this info into the mix, Jap. cars are only 2-3% more reliable if you use JD Power.

I am a mechanic and work on all makes and models so I have seen just about everthing. Oh and have you noticed how most mechanics drive American cars? Including myself.

 

[StageLeft]

<< Hate to break it to you but if you looked into it, instead of just repeating some junk you hear from people that don't know what they are talking about, domestics are just as reliable if not more so if you take out sports cars and luxury cars. >>

Sorry, but the data doesn't back up your claim.

 

[Vette73]

What data???
You just keep giving one liners with no proof. I WORK IN THE CAR INDUSTRY, it paid for my first degree, and will help a little on my next 2. I get a lot of industry papers, like JD Power, consumer reports, etc.... I have writen papers on this thing for a marketing class.

So where are you getting your info from??

 

[Ultima]

Uh.. I remember reading somewhere recently about GM having difficulties... yes, I remember where. It was in a business textbook for college! There was an excerpt about how GM failed to market the Cavalier (under a toyota nameplate!) in Japan because the car had a 50 FOLD (not percent, 50 as in 50 TIMES more) defect rate than the native japanese cars.

 

[Capn]

<< So where are you getting your info from?? >>



Most likely his butt I imagine.

 

[StageLeft]

Hmm, one spot would be consumer reports. Of course if you're like the rest of the people who say that domestics are just as good you'll probably talk about how CR is in the pockets of the import companies and a bunch of other baseless stuff.

I can get it ouf if I really must. Going through it it was painfully evident that based on their data domestics are significantly worse cars to have used.

And of course there is the tried and true, entirely undeniable fact that domestic cars have MUCH HIGHER depreciation once they drive off the lot. Put a year and 25k miles on a domestic and it loses a sick amount of value.

There is a reason why plenty of mechanics and other people (and btw obviously not all mechanics drive domestics) in the US drive domestics: because they are domestics. National pride.

 

[StageLeft]

LOL. I just checked kelly blue book comparing a bottom of the line 1999 civic to a bottom of the line cavalier. Civic is worth about $11,700 to buy retail. Cavalier is about $8,200 - and they are very comporably priced new as well.

Why is that? I do recall hearing a 500 word theory on it before that went something along the lines of how people who buy domestics like to replace their cars all the time so naturally used ones are worth less or some other yadda yadda yadda.

 

[Vette73]

Show me where consumer reports says Jap. cars are more reliable than American.

And now you are trying to change the topic to resell, you know why Jap. cars hold their vaule better. Because most people (see mirror) don't know anything about cars, they just use the old hype WHEN Jap. cars were better. So they pay more for the car, i.e. the vaule is higher.

The resell only has to do with what people think, not what is the truth.


And my parents bought their camaro by info they got from myself AND consumer reports.

 

[StageLeft]

Well you've now said twice that it's ignorance pervading thoughts that imports are better but what proof do you have for that? I have the 2001 consumer reports book that has a big section on cars. I do believe the most reliable car manufacturer was subaru which got astonishingly good scores. I didn't run any statistical anlysis but it was very clear that domestics generally scored poorer.

 

[StageLeft]

Actually it's the 2002 CR buying guide. Here is a quote:

<< In 2001, for the first time, CR was able to look back at two full decades (1980 to 2000) of auto reliability. The trends we've found were both encouraging and intriguiging.

Overall, automotive reliability continues to improve. Back in 1980, the average trouble rate for new vehicles was 88 problems reported for every 100cars. By 2000, that rate had dropped to 20 problems: a 77 percent improvement.

That overall news conceals some telling details. Back in 1980, there was a termendous quality gap between U.S. makes and the Japanese nameplates. Today the makes are much closer, although the Japanese are still the most reliable. European cars remain between the two, although U.S. makes are pretty close.

Though domestic models have improved most dramatically, they reached in 2000 the level that Japanese cars had achieved by 1985 (In 1985 Japanese makes had a problem rate of 23 in 100; U.S. makes at the time were more than 60 per 100). >>

Well there you have it. Don't argue with me - argue with consumer reports!

 

[Vette73]

Skoorb
I didn't run any statistical anlysis but it was very clear that domestics generally scored poorer.


Your first statement that is honest, AND true.

Thanks


Oh and you know that GM owns parts of subaru, and helped design their engines the last half decade or more. Same as Saab and others...

 

[Vette73]

OH MY GOD, DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I SAID BEFORE.

Me
And now you are trying to change the topic to resell, you know why Jap. cars hold their vaule better. Because most people (see mirror) don't know anything about cars, they just use the old hype WHEN Jap. cars were better. So they pay more for the car, i.e. the vaule is higher


Now they are about the same, but if you take out the outliers, then American cars are slightly better.

 

[StageLeft]

<< OH MY GOD, DID YOU NOT READ WHAT I SAID BEFORE.

Me
And now you are trying to change the topic to resell, you know why Jap. cars hold their vaule better. Because most people (see mirror) don't know anything about cars, they just use the old hype WHEN Jap. cars were better. So they pay more for the car, i.e. the vaule is higher


Now they are about the same, but if you take out the outliers, then American cars are slightly better. >>

What are you talking about? Did you read what I wrote? Let me repeat something from consumer reports from the 2002 buyer's guide in response to your statement "Show me where consumer reports says Jap. cars are more reliable than American.
" CR says "although the Japanese are still the most reliable. " And then it says "Though domestic models have improved most dramatically, they reached in 2000 the level that Japanese cars had achieved by 1985 (In 1985 Japanese makes had a problem rate of 23 in 100; U.S. makes at the time were more than 60 per 100)." Is this hard to follow?

And now you're saying American cars are BETTER?! Wow.

 

[Jejunum]

<< Oh and you know that GM owns parts of subaru, and helped design their engines the last half decade or more. Same as Saab and others... >>




lol u idiot; gm own 25% of fuji heavy industry's HOWEVER they are not allowed desinging any subaru (if u knew anything ud know this). they on the other hand are allowed taking (stealing good technology to replace crappy domestic technology) engine designs (and awd designs more specifaclly) from subaru


read a book!

 

[Vette73]

Ok if American cars are 23 out of 100, then what does it say about Jap cars????

 

[StageLeft]

<< Ok if American cars are 23 out of 100, then what does it say about Jap cars???? >>

Do you want me to quote what CR said again? I think this topic is pretty well an open-shut. What does it say? It says that Japanese cars are less than 23 out of 100. These are problems per 100 cars by the way.

 

[Vette73]

Look under the hood of a subura, you will see a lot of sensors and relays with A/C on them, thats GM

 

[StageLeft]

<< Look under the hood of a subura, you will see a lot of sensors and relays with A/C on them, thats GM >>

And that has what to do with this topic? Cars with a Subaru nameplate have higher reliability ratings than those made by GM.

 

[Ornery]

CR and most consumer rags are written by eco-greenie-wienies. It must pain them greatly to see a half ton pickup as America's top vehicle choice. SUVs are right up there too. That's gotta hurt!

My idea of value is buying a used car at greatly reduced price for whatever reason. There was a time when we at AnandTech bought scores of Celeron CPUs despite their perceived lack of "value". Only sheep were gullible enough to get sucked into the big buck, Pentium-II hype. I'll always go for bang for the buck in CPUs and vehicles. The chances of that being any type of tiny, foreign car are nil.

 

[Vette73]

Less than 23, how much less 1, 2, .1, .00001 ????????????????

 

[gopunk]

<< Look under the hood of a subura, you will see a lot of sensors and relays with A/C on them, thats GM >>



i'll put it this way: there's a reason the quality rating of mercedes has fallen in recent times.