Screen size and seating position and speakers

[ManBearPig]

So this might be a weird question, but here it is anyway: I know that screen size dictates seating position, but doesnt it also dictate speaker distance? The reason I say this is because most people have the speakers line up with the screen, and if your screen isnt gigantic, then the speakers would be equally close. I think speakers so close kinda bother my ears (even if the volume is low...something to do about them being so near bothers me for some reason).

 

[destrekor]

Speaker distance is mostly determined by television distance and seating positions. As you noted, front speakers should be with the main display. They can be behind it (ideal if using projection with an audio-transparent projection screen, more for aesthetics than anything though) too. If you have a TV on a stand or wall mounted though, the front speakers should be on the same plane, and the center speaker should be as close to ear-height as possible.

For 5.1 rears, they should be mostly lined up, ideally just a little bit behind (like a 110º angle, iirc - that is, the angle with the rear speaker, your main listening position, and the TV). That's to the Dolby layout standard, iirc.
You have some room for variance based on positional needs, but it's best to try for that layout.


Your concern about speaker distance and levels is why most audio receivers have the capability to adjust speaker levels. It may let you input measured distances (between ears and each specific speaker), or it may let you adjust dB offsets and speaker levels.

Ideally, it will have a really good system to automatically calibrate for you, using a microphone positioned at ear-level in the primary listening position. It may also request to move the speaker around to help ensure a wider area has good aural characteristics.

Having speakers super close or real far away isn't really too big of deal. If they are in good positions, and there aren't a lot of objects/sound "barriers" in-between speakers and your ears, adjusting speaker delays, levels, and/or offsets will help ensure you still have good sound imaging.

Such auto calibration systems can't work magic 100% of the time - but given the right environment, they sure will try. I like to think that Marantz's auto system on the NR1403 receiver I picked up two months ago. The one on the Harmon Kardon AVR247 I owned before that also did a terrific job - I think newer technology definitely helped though, they've made some strides in this department I reckon.

 

[Howard]

Yes. Speakers are typically laid out on the points of an equilateral triangle. The listening position, of course, would be the third point.

 

[ManBearPig]

I've got everything laid out correctly, and I do have a receiver with Audyssey, so the speakers are indeed calibrated. Still, i guess my ears must be sensitive, but just having them be at a lower volume isnt the same as having them be further away at a louder volume. I guess my ears are just crazy. Thanks guys.

 

[gar655]

just having them be at a lower volume isnt the same as having them be further away at a louder volume. I guess my ears are just crazy. Thanks guys.

But it is. Dbs are Dbs. If you listen at 90dbs at the listening position it's 90dbs whether the speakers are 20 feet away or 5 feet away.

A benefit to closer listening position is it takes less power so you can get by with a lesser AVR or amp or just have a lot more headroom with a more powerful AVR or amp.

 

[Howard]

But it is. Dbs are Dbs. If you listen at 90dbs at the listening position it's 90dbs whether the speakers are 20 feet away or 5 feet away.

A benefit to closer listening position is it takes less power so you can get by with a lesser AVR or amp or just have a lot more headroom with a more powerful AVR or amp.

Not really. While an SPL meter may report the same sound pressure at the listening position, there are too many factors to consider to accurately claim, without much more intricate analysis, that the loudness would be the same as well.

 

[destrekor]

Not really. While an SPL meter may report the same sound pressure at the listening position, there are too many factors to consider to accurately claim, without much more intricate analysis, that the loudness would be the same as well.

If they are further away, there is a likelihood that the audio waves will propagate more and have a chance to reflect more, which, depending on the type of speaker, location, and quality, may or may not be ideal.

The general idea is that, say, in a 5.1 setup, the 5 speakers should be in positions that allow clear uninterrupted, non-reflected sound to reach the listener's ears. The sub should reflect, a lot, and is thus best tucked in a corner, as opposed to being isolated away from walls. Downward firing, forward, etc... doesn't change the "corner is best" idea.


Personally, I have my rear speakers really close (both ends of the main viewing position, aka the main couch) and Audyssey calibrated - and I absolutely love the level they are at in relation to the rest of the system.


What you MAY be experiencing is not a standard rule of all speakers, but of your specific speakers. Some speakers have worse imaging than others - aka, if you close your eyes, if you can pinpoint the exact location of a particular speaker, that's not good (in the audiophile realm).

Most speakers are good at audio imaging when given some separation between physical location and the listening position, but when brought up real close, the short-falls of lower-end speakers will be apparent compared to higher-end speakers. I bet if I had some really high end speakers, even the close surround speakers in my apartment would have their audio blend in much better.


In short, with premium speakers, and with an audio calibration system, speaker distance should not matter one bit. Each speaker should get calibrated so that the sound levels are even, at the listening position. However, with "lesser" speakers (and this is hit and miss, some cheaper ones are indeed good at imaging, but perhaps not so hot at frequency accuracy, or what have you), they may start to make themselves stand out, negatively, when brought up close.

 

[ManBearPig]

Appreciate the replies guys! I have cheap speakers; fronts are a polk cs2 and two monitor 70s (if that adds to the discussion at all...I mention it because of destrektors post).

Could it be that I just keep the room pretty empty and it makes it sound harsh, coupled with the fact that these could be "harsh" sounding speakers? Though certainly at such a low volume (I keep my volume low, regardless of where I am) reflections and stuff wouldn't be as big of an issue.

 

[alkemyst]

Dolby.com has room layout for 2.1, 5.1 and 7.1 http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/setup/connection-guide/home-theater-speaker-guide//index.html

TV placement a bit objective. Some find THX optimum ratings too close...some too far, this is a good thread for a breakdown of some standards

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1004723/chart-distance-x-screen-size-standards-smpte-and-thx

 

[alangrift]

Put them in the edges of the tv facing you that's how movie theaters sorta do it.