Screen, Receiver, and Speaker Recommendations Needed

[Gunslinger08]

It looks like I'll be building a home theater with a 100" screen (maybe up to 106 or 110") with the front speakers behind it. So I need recommendations on a few things:

1. An acoustically transparent screen. The room is probably going to be open at the back to the rest of a larger basement area (for aesthetics/wife purposes), so I imagine I need something with decent gain. I'm not sure about gray/white screen or what type of frame I want (stretched tight?).

2. Receiver. Trying to do 7.1. Needs to do HDMI switching so that I can just run 1 cable to my projector. All of my content sources should be HDMI, so I don't especially care about other inputs. I may eventually build an HTPC, so whatever I need for that would be a plus (I assume I can just use an HDMI video card that also handles sound).

3. Front 3 speakers. I need something that I can mount inside a "wall" behind the screen. This wall will actually have a 2' empty space behind it, so depth isn't a big concern.

4. Side speakers and rear surrounds. I don't have a good place to put these, so I'm going to have to go with in-ceiling for all 4. The ceiling is deep (12" joists?) so depth isn't a huge concern here either.

5. Subwoofer.

The "room" is going to be about 12-14' wide by 18' long, but I'm probably going to have to leave the back portion open to the rest of a larger area (about 30' long overall and 24' wide). I know this is a lot of space to fill up with sound, so I'm going to have to make compromises and just hope for "good enough."

Budget isn't firm, but it would pain me to spend more than this on each item:
- Screen: $500
- Audio: $2000

Honestly, if I can spend significantly less than this and still get pretty good picture/sound quality, I'd be thrilled. I have a lot of other "nice to have" things I'd like to include in my basement finishing that I won't be able to do now if I blow a lot of money on electronics.

 

[queequeg99]

For the speaker/receiver issue, I would definitely post your question to this forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=89&order=desc

As you note, you've got a huge room to fill with sound. Depending out what you will watch the most, your subwoofer may easily take up the largest fraction of the $2000 sound budget.

Regarding the in-wall speakers, there is a huge thread on some speakers Monoprice sells (a bit off the reservation for this vendor but they get some decent comments) over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=991046&highlight=monoprice

If you read through that, you'll see references to a lot of competitors.

If budget is currently a problem, I would tend to place spending emphasis now on a really good 5.1 system (with an emphasis on the sub). Wire for 7.1 now but don't complete the system. If the budget is still an issue after dropping two speakers, you could also consider going cheap on the receiver, with the idea of ditching it on Craigslist in a year or so and upgrading. Receiver prices tend to drop a lot more than speakers from year to year. This wouldn't be an ideal situation but I think you really want to place the emphasis of your spending on the 5.1 speakers.

 

[vi edit]

If you aren't apposed to DIY screen, then the material from Seymore is supposed to be a very nice product:

http://www.seymourav.com/
Not sure how many linear feet you'd need for a 100" screen.
If you don't want to build your own, then this is what I have:
http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens-.../dp/B0030KX40A

I paid closer to $400 for it through a package deal from a company now out of business. At 10' it would be great. At 8' you can see the pattern under certain conditions.

Speaker wise I'd highly consider the pro-10's/sho-10's from Tweak City/Chase theatres. It's not a big name...but it's a big time, dynamic speaker.

That's $1000 for your front three
Spend $420 on a Refurb Onkyo 807
...not sure what to tell you on surrounds...
Do you need to buy/build a sub with that $2000 audio budget too?

 

[Gunslinger08]

For the speaker/receiver issue, I would definitely post your question to this forum:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=89&order=desc

As you note, you've got a huge room to fill with sound. Depending out what you will watch the most, your subwoofer may easily take up the largest fraction of the $2000 sound budget.

Regarding the in-wall speakers, there is a huge thread on some speakers Monoprice sells (a bit off the reservation for this vendor but they get some decent comments) over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=991046&highlight=monoprice

If you read through that, you'll see references to a lot of competitors.

If budget is currently a problem, I would tend to place spending emphasis now on a really good 5.1 system (with an emphasis on the sub). Wire for 7.1 now but don't complete the system. If the budget is still an issue after dropping two speakers, you could also consider going cheap on the receiver, with the idea of ditching it on Craigslist in a year or so and upgrading. Receiver prices tend to drop a lot more than speakers from year to year. This wouldn't be an ideal situation but I think you really want to place the emphasis of your spending on the 5.1 speakers.

Thanks, I had read a little of the thread on the Monoprice speakers and I'm actually thinking about giving them a try. $57.48 x 2 for all of my surround speakers would give me much more money to play with elsewhere. I'm just wondering if the 3-ways would be worth it for surround.

 

[vi edit]

I've got the 2 way 8" in ceilings from Monoprice. For $40 a pair you really can't complain. I'd probably search around a little more though and look for a sealed design. Part's express has one for about $50 a speaker that's a vented 6" design in a sealed setup. It'll help reduce sound transmission to the floor above (help..not stop) and gives much better bass response than a speaker stuck in a huge floor joist cavity.

 

[Gunslinger08]

If you aren't apposed to DIY screen, then the material from Seymore is supposed to be a very nice product:

http://www.seymourav.com/
Not sure how many linear feet you'd need for a 100" screen.
If you don't want to build your own, then this is what I have:
http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens-.../dp/B0030KX40A

I paid closer to $400 for it through a package deal from a company now out of business. At 10' it would be great. At 8' you can see the pattern under certain conditions.

Speaker wise I'd highly consider the pro-10's/sho-10's from Tweak City/Chase theatres. It's not a big name...but it's a big time, dynamic speaker.

That's $1000 for your front three
Spend $420 on a Refurb Onkyo 807
...not sure what to tell you on surrounds...
Do you need to buy/build a sub with that $2000 audio budget too?

Yeah, that's actually the exact screen I was just looking at. Right around $600 on the site I was looking at. My main seating will be 10' or 11', so I should be fine. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of an acoustically transparent screen to start with.

I'll have to read up on the PRO/SHO-10's. Are those the speakers you're using? Would I use one for the center as well? I guess center speakers are traditionally different because they're mounted above or below the screen. In my case, it shouldn't matter if it's a vertical speaker.

I was thinking Onkyo for the receiver. I have an Onkyo HTIB system upstairs that I'm plenty happy with. Excuse my ignorance, but if I were to go with the Monoprice 8" for surrounds (80W nominal, 160W max) and the 807 (135W), I wouldn't have any issues, right?

I'd rather have a finished sub, unless building my own is way cheaper and fairly easy. If it's just cutting MDF and wiring up a speaker, I can do that. I know people can spend a crazy amount on just the sub, but I'm actually not a huge fan of earth shattering bass (either is my sleeping wife). Being that this is the only speaker that won't be inside of a wall or ceiling, it should the easiest to upgrade later on as well if I have to compromise some now. I know that generally the most important speakers in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup are the front 3 and sub, so I'm willing to go above my budget some to get a good sounding system.

 

[queequeg99]

I'd rather have a finished sub, unless building my own is way cheaper and fairly easy. If it's just cutting MDF and wiring up a speaker, I can do that. I know people can spend a crazy amount on just the sub, but I'm actually not a huge fan of earth shattering bass (either is my sleeping wife). Being that this is the only speaker that won't be inside of a wall or ceiling, it should the easiest to upgrade later on as well if I have to compromise some now. I know that generally the most important speakers in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup are the front 3 and sub, so I'm willing to go above my budget some to get a good sounding system.

There are some interesting and easy DIY sub designs. Avsforum has a forum dedicated to DIY speakers and most of the threads are about subs. There are some truly insane projects going on over there. The most impressive IMHO (at least from a wall shaking perspective) tend to use some of these designs:

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/THT.html

I'm going to be in the same boat as you in a few months and I've been looking at building the table top model. The forums at that site have a few build threads with pictures so you can see what you would be getting yourself into.

Depending on your wife's tolerance (of course, I assume that you personally will tolerate the most hideous design as long as it sounds good), you could also look at a sonotube design. These look faily easy to build but aren't the most attractive things in the world. One nice thing I like about both the sonotube design as well as the tuba designs is how both designs do a good job of keeping the speaker cone away from curious and destructive children (the tuba more than the sonotube). Once you've had to restrain yourself after a 4 year old pokes a pen through your sub speaker, you will appreciate this aspect of these speaker designs.

 

[vi edit]

Why not stick the sub behind the screen with everything else? Typically front & center is the more ideal placement for the sub unless you have some really whacky room modes that say otherwise. Then who cares what it looks like?

You've got a big room, you'll want a decent sized sub(s) to fill it. For $220 this is some pretty serious value:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-770
Two of them in your room would really balance out well.

 

[s44]

Speaker wise I'd highly consider the pro-10's/sho-10's from Tweak City/Chase theatres. It's not a big name...but it's a big time, dynamic speaker.

This. Your audio budget is hilariously low for the size of that space, and this is pretty much the only way you're going to fill it to near movie volumes.

 

[Gunslinger08]

The SHO-10's are looking pretty good. I will probably go with them. If I decide to go with the Monoprice ceiling speakers, should I try to build a box in the ceiling above them? I'm also looking at the SR608 receiver instead of the 807. I don't really need the network features, but the extra power would probably be nice, so I'm not sure. SNR is fairly close. Inputs on both are more than enough. That PE sub seems to get fairly good ratings as well. I'm getting to the point where I can't read AVS Forum because everyone there is either rich or broke.

 

[vi edit]

I'm getting to the point where I can't read AVS Forum because everyone there is either rich or broke.

So true. There's not much middle ground. You either have these ultra elaborate designed from the ground up *truely* dedicated theatres that cost more than a luxury car to install....or you have some guy who threw a screen on a wall in a room that's otherwise a pigsty thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread.

There's not much in the way of practical builds that are a nice compromise between value, function and performance. I think most of us are scared away by either side giving either bad advice or too expensive of advice and simply avoid. I posted my thread here to share with others but I'm not too anxious to start a build thread for my room over there. Just don't want to deal with the flury of opinions.

People in our tiny A/V forum are a little more practical. Maybe it's the computer enthusiast in us that caries over.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I just bought the lumber and nails for all of the framing today. I'm still considering the Monoprice speakers for my 4 rears. Should I try to build a "box" around them in the ceiling? If so, what would you recommend? I'm not sure where else to look for decent in-ceiling speakers if I don't go with these.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Think I should get the angled speakers from Monoprice for my rear surrounds, so that they're pointed more towards the seats instead of the floor?

Also, my side surrounds might have to be mounted just in front of the main listening area (because of the main beam overhead). Is this going to sound weird? Should I put them right behind the beam instead?

 

[Gunslinger08]

And another question. I've read some good things about the Epik Legend and Chase Home Theater CS 10.2 subs. They're around the same price, but the Epik Legend is back ordered. Any input on either of these or something else in the same price range (~$500)?

 

[vi edit]

And another question. I've read some good things about the Epik Legend and Chase Home Theater CS 10.2 subs. They're around the same price, but the Epik Legend is back ordered. Any input on either of these or something else in the same price range (~$500)?

Of the two the Legend is a lot more sub and it's from a known and established brand. Speakers aren't as much as a problem (like the Sho 10's) but powered products like subwoofers are a little more of a concern since there's a lot more stuff that can break in them. But even excluding that concern I think the Epic is a better product.

I really think about the only way you'll best the Epic for the $$ would be to DIY. And even then for $550 you'd be hard up to find a dual 12" or single 15" + quality amp and complete it for close to that.

 

[s44]

I really think about the only way you'll best the Epic for the $$ would be to DIY.

Craigslist

 

[BurnItDwn]

For subwoofer, this is probably under your budget, but you may wish to consider the PL200 from BIC (aka Acoustech H200.)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1137113

I've got my dedicated ht setup in a 10x27x7.5 room, and the sub is powerful enough to make all of my friends tell me to turn it down.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Vi, what projector are you using? I'm really torn about what to do for my screen. I have to have acoustically transparent. Seems like Seymours Center Stage XD gets the best reviews. I looked at their DIY instructions and I'm not sure if I want to try it. So it's either the Elite screen for $500-$600 or Seymour for $1200.

 

[Gunslinger08]

I'm having issues deciding on a sub too. I'd rather have something tight than something overpowered. The Epik Legend sounds like the right one for me, but it's out of stock for a while. The Epik Empire gets really good reviews too, but it's much more expensive. Also looked at the CHT 10.2

 

[s44]

I'm having issues deciding on a sub too. I'd rather have something tight than something overpowered.

Please continue to research until you realize why this is a false contrast.

 

[vi edit]

Please continue to research until you realize why this is a false contrast.

Correct. Plus once people experience what bass traps do they have a completely different perspective on what's "muddy bass" and what isn't. Just getting a couple superchunk absorbers in my room made a world of difference.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Sorry, I probably didn't phrase that well. What I mean is that a lot of people just want the most air movement/highest volume at certain frequencies for their money. I'd rather have more accurate/less muddy sounding bass, even if it's not as loud.

 

[vi edit]

Vi, what projector are you using?

Whoops, missed this post. I've got a Mitsubishi HC3800. For the price I paid it's pretty damn nice. Definitely has it's flaws though. It's *very* sensitive to HDMI cable length. If you have to run longer than 20-25 feet...forget it. Also being a cheap DLP with no lens shift it has limited placement options. It can't be rear shelf mounted and can't move the picture around very much.

But for $1200 + a free bulb it's got one hell of a picture.

 

[Gunslinger08]

Ordered the Epson 8350 last night. I'm probably going to go with a Seymour AV Center Stage XD screen. Just need to get the projector in so I can verify that I can mount it where I want and that the screen size looks good (103.3"). Not sure yet whether I'll order the screen with black backing. $191 seems steep. I'll probably just paint the wall behind it black and stick some speaker cloth in front of the speakers if they're reflective.

 

[Gunslinger08]

What do you guys use to control your projectors over IR, since the projector is typically above or behind the seating? I'm thinking about getting this:

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Harmo.../dp/B003FST9EC