Scotland Yard Chief Inspector Mike Neville on London's closed-circuit TV cameras: "A fiasco."

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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A bad day for Big Brother

It's what skeptics have suspected all along, and now it's official: Cameras don't catch crooks. Detective Chief Inspector Mike Neville, head of the Visual Images, Identifications and Detections Office of Scotland Yard, told a conference in London, England, this week that the project of plastering the city with closed-circuit TV cameras (CCTV) has been "a fiasco."

"CCTV was originally seen as a preventative measure," said Insp. Neville. "It's been an utter fiasco: Only 3% of crimes were solved by CCTV. There's no fear of CCTV. Why don't people fear it? [They think] the cameras are not working."

And, by and large, those people are right. The picture quality on cameras often is not good enough to pass evidentiary muster in court, and investigators are often reluctant to slog through hours of footage to secure a conviction in the case of petty crimes.

In terrorism cases and several high-profile murders, London's ubiquitous CCTV cameras have played a key role in reconstructing what happened -- after the fact. But they have done little to stem the street violence that has become a part of the city's image along with the cameras themselves.

The lesson for other cities is "Don't imitate London." This is of particular interest to those who patrol the one Canadian city that faces security challenges on anything remotely like London's scale. The Toronto Police Service is in the midst of experimenting with the use of CCTV in some neighbourhoods, and the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) will soon complete installation of an $18-million camera system that will capture every one of the TTC's 2.5 million daily users on video.

Canada, fortunately, has activist, arm's-length privacy officials that should and probably will demand solid evidence of benefit every step of the way. The general public should adopt the same skeptical spirit. Above all, no CCTV camera should ever be purchased without someone asking whether the money could contribute more to public safety if it were spent somewhere else.

Seems like the only win for London's extensive CCTV network is that it's easier to piece together how things happened after the crime has been committed. I wonder if they'll try to upgrade the technology in these things instead of admitting that the passive nature of them is simply ineffective.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Damn, just means they need to spend more money on it. If they can increase spending by 33X, all crime in England will be gone.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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Originally posted by: yllus
I wonder if they'll try to upgrade the technology in these things instead of admitting that the passive nature of them is simply ineffective.

Given the nature of most governments, I predict option #1.

Next they'll probably mandate that cameras are installed in every TV sold in the UK and hooked into a national network so anyone can be observed at any time. This would all be for their own safety of course. I think somebody already wrote a book about this though....
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
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Originally posted by: K1052
Originally posted by: yllus
I wonder if they'll try to upgrade the technology in these things instead of admitting that the passive nature of them is simply ineffective.

Given the nature of most governments, I predict option #1.

Next they'll probably mandate that cameras are installed in every TV sold in the UK and hooked into a national network so anyone can be observed at any time. This would all be for their own safety of course. I think somebody already wrote a book about this though....
Not a terrible idea. It won't be long before everyone in britain is chipped and then movement can be tracked back at all times for their own safety "to solve and prevent crime". Tourists from countries without such superb, progressive criminal fighting approaches will be collared around the ankle so that they are on the grid during the time in England.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
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Oh I am sure they will try to upgrade them wasting taxpayers money in the process. Have to keep people employed right? Oh and I suspect after the upgrade the situation will continue to be a fiasco.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,044
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
There can't be crime in the UK, they have gun control.

5.9 murders per 100,000 (US) vs. 1.62 per 100,000 (England and Wales).

Edit: Wrong figure for Eng/Wal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...tries_by_homicide_rate
What are the numbers on rape, mugging, assault, home invasions?

Per capita numbers on the above:

Rape: Text

lower

Assault: Text

about even

Burglaries:Text

much higher

Total crimes per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/gr...otal-crimes-per-capita



Based on the available information there is little to support that the UK is somehow inherently safer than the US. There have also been allegations that the government statistics compiled by the UK are vastly underreporting actual crime levels due to their methodology.
 

jman19

Lifer
Nov 3, 2000
11,221
654
126
You mean the government constantly spying on it's citizens doesn't make them safer? Say it ain't so!
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
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What? This makes no sense. If a bad guy is robbing a citizen at gunpoint, the best tool to stop him is a camera. Everyone knows that. The problem is the police aren't getting to the scene with their cameras fast enough to photograph the bad guy.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Pull the cameras that are in the public area and allow 3% of the crimes to potentialy go unsolved.
 

BladeVenom

Lifer
Jun 2, 2005
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Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
There can't be crime in the UK, they have gun control.

5.9 murders per 100,000 (US) vs. 1.62 per 100,000 (England and Wales).

Edit: Wrong figure for Eng/Wal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...tries_by_homicide_rate

So it's now 1.62 for Eng/ Wales with their tough control. But it was much lower in England and Wales before their tough gun control laws. Thanks for proving my point.
 

Atheus

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
There can't be crime in the UK, they have gun control.

5.9 murders per 100,000 (US) vs. 1.62 per 100,000 (England and Wales).

Edit: Wrong figure for Eng/Wal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...tries_by_homicide_rate

So it's now 1.62 for Eng/ Wales with their tough control. But it was much lower in England and Wales before their tough gun control laws. Thanks for proving my point.

You can still have a firearm in Britain - you are just restricted to certain types in certain places. For example this man's shotgun was probably perfectly legal. Good thing? Bad thing?

On topic - I woulod say these cameras are no replacement for real police officers, but I hate the police more than I hate the CCTV, so I suppose I should be happy...
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Originally posted by: Atheus
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Originally posted by: BladeVenom
There can't be crime in the UK, they have gun control.

5.9 murders per 100,000 (US) vs. 1.62 per 100,000 (England and Wales).

Edit: Wrong figure for Eng/Wal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...tries_by_homicide_rate

So it's now 1.62 for Eng/ Wales with their tough control. But it was much lower in England and Wales before their tough gun control laws. Thanks for proving my point.

You can still have a firearm in Britain - you are just restricted to certain types in certain places. For example this man's shotgun was probably perfectly legal. Good thing? Bad thing?

On topic - I woulod say these cameras are no replacement for real police officers, but I hate the police more than I hate the CCTV, so I suppose I should be happy...

His shotgun was not legally held. He lied on the forms required to obtain the shotgun license. This all could have been prevented if the police had enforced the draconian laws already in effect in England.