Scotland to ban glass in pubs

[Specop 007]

Ridiculous.
"It is dangerous, we must BAN IT!"

What more need I say, everyone knows how I feel about banning objects and tools based on emotional feelings.

:disgust:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5037322.stm]Article[/url]

Pub glass ban faces legal fight
A legal challenge has been raised against plans to for a total ban on glasses in Glasgow's pubs and clubs.
The Scottish Beer and Pub Association (SBPA) has lodged papers at the Court of Session opposing the enforced use of toughened or plastic glasses.

The licensing board agreed on the ban, which will be rolled out in January, to reduce injuries from violence.

Glass was banned in pubs and clubs with late night entertainment licences earlier this year.

The SBPA said the ban was a "disproportionate response".

Chief executive Patrick Browne said a judicial review was being sought as it believed Glasgow's Licensing Board was acting outside its powers.

"We argued against the board's blanket ban on the use of glass which we believed could not be justified in terms of cost or risk and was a totally disproportionate response to the issue," he said.

"The industry is in full support of policies designed to target and tackle the violent thugs who use glass as a weapon.

"But we believe that the use of plastic bottles or toughened glass is best determined on a premises by premises basis where problems exist, and not across the board."

Police in Glasgow city centre and the west end recorded 59 violent incidents involving glass in the 12 months up to November 2005.

Entertainment licences

Gordon Macdiarmid, convener of the city's Licensing Board, said: "We feel entirely on safe grounds legally as this policy, like the continuous pricing policy, is based around undertakings given in relation to regular extensions.

"We are fully aware that the board cannot condition a core public house licence.

"Given the clearly demonstrable success of the policy in relation to entertainment licences, it is astonishing that anyone in the 21st century should seek to place the protection of glass receptacles ahead of the safety of their patrons."

The ban came into force in clubs and pubs with late night entertainment licences in February.

The SBPA said it expected the case to appear before the Court of Session in Edinburgh later this month.

 

[TGS]

I predict new headlines:

"Man bludgened to death with hard plastic cup... Legislation to ban hard plastic cups."

Better yet would be to not allow violent people to be allowed in bars. If you attack someone in a bar, you are immediately blacklisted from using any bars again. Focusing on the glasses is ridiculous. What happens when someone orders a bottle, and breaks it over someones head? Are they going to ban glass bottles?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Why the hell do you care what legislation is imposed in Scotland?

 

[conehead433]

If I ever went there and wanted to have a drink in a pub you can bet I would want to drink it out of a glass. Drinks and beer simply taste better from a real glass.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: DonVito
Why the hell do you care what legislation is imposed in Scotland?

I was thinking the same thing when he was posting about England banning knives.

Who cares?

*shrugs*

 

[homercles337]

Hey Spec, how old are you? Ever been to a pub? I think not. I know you like to claim youre in the military, but this makes it clear that youre probably 15 and a CS "warrior." Do you know why you can no longer get longnecks in bars in the US? Because they make nice glass clubs. Nice "tool" for smashing the sh!t out of someones face.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Hey Spec, how old are you? Ever been to a pub? I think not. I know you like to claim youre in the military, but this makes it clear that youre probably 15 and a CS "warrior." Do you know why you can no longer get longnecks in bars in the US? Because they make nice glass clubs. Nice "tool" for smashing the sh!t out of someones face.

I don't think I've ever been in a bar in the US that doesn't serve longneck bottles.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: homercles337
Hey Spec, how old are you? Ever been to a pub? I think not. I know you like to claim youre in the military, but this makes it clear that youre probably 15 and a CS "warrior." Do you know why you can no longer get longnecks in bars in the US? Because they make nice glass clubs. Nice "tool" for smashing the sh!t out of someones face.

I've never claimed I was in the military, in fact I've been very open about the fact I am NOT in the military.

Otherwise, I cant name one bar where I cant order my drink in the bottle or in a glass.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: DonVito
Why the hell do you care what legislation is imposed in Scotland?

Because what happens in one place eventually spills over into others. Additionally, I care because I dont like any countries citizens to lose more of their freedoms. Lastly, because we can use cases abroad as information as to why bans dont work WHEN our politicians decide to push for those same bans here.

 

[RichardE]

nvm

 

[Mark R]

The article is misleading. The plan is not to ban glass, but to ban the use of untoughened glass.

Essentially an identical plan was discussed about 7 or 8 years ago, as a way of reducing the number of serious injuries caused by alcohol induced violence. However, it was rejected due to industry lobbying.

In mainland Europe, similar legislation has been in place for a considerable period.

Toughened glass looks, feels and weighs exactly the same as conventional glass. The difference is that it is much harder to break, and that when it does eventually break, it disintegrates into thousands of tiny round lumps. Conventional glass will break into large sharpened shards.

The problem is that toughened glass is more expensive, so the hospitality industry was fiercly opposed; and also, there are no factories in the UK that can make beer glasses in toughened glass - so the incumbent glass industry was also fiercly opposed.

The fact is that there already is a perfectly acceptable, and safer, alternative to conventional glass - but an industry reluctant to change, opposed it.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: DonVito
Why the hell do you care what legislation is imposed in Scotland?

Because what happens in one place eventually spills over into others. Additionally, I care because I dont like any countries citizens to lose more of their freedoms. Lastly, because we can use cases abroad as information as to why bans dont work WHEN our politicians decide to push for those same bans here.

Absurd. Why aren't you bothered by the draconian measures imposed by our allies in, say, Saudi Arabia? I don't see there being any significant risk of a ban on glass in American bars, but in any case there is no constitutional right to bear glass in a bar (I think the Founding Fathers mostly drank out of tankards), so there's nothing to prevent your local or state legislators from passing just such a measure. I suggest you start a letter-writing campaign immediately if you are so concerned.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: DonVito
Why the hell do you care what legislation is imposed in Scotland?

Because what happens in one place eventually spills over into others. Additionally, I care because I dont like any countries citizens to lose more of their freedoms. Lastly, because we can use cases abroad as information as to why bans dont work WHEN our politicians decide to push for those same bans here.

Absurd. Why aren't you bothered by the draconian measures imposed by our allies in, say, Saudi Arabia? I don't see there being any significant risk of a ban on glass in American bars, but in any case there is no constitutional right to bear glass in a bar (I think the Founding Fathers mostly drank out of tankards), so there's nothing to prevent your local or state legislators from passing just such a measure. I suggest you start a letter-writing campaign immediately if you are so concerned.

Your original statement and intent is absurd. It does not matter whether something is happening in Scotland, Antarctica, or the US. It doesn't matter if something worse is happening somewhere else (don't look here, look over there!). People are interested in different topics, some domestic, some international, some a mix of both.

There are several threads involving non-Americans about American issues. It goes the other way around, too.

 

[sandorski]

If they have a problem with current glass and violence, they need to deal with it. No one's "Rights" are violated if smashing their glass doesn't turn it into a lethal weapon.

 

[spikespiegal]

I've been in bars in Scotland....and Ireland.

I don't care if you build beer mugs out of nerf foam. If you call a Scotsman's sister an English Bulldog, he'll pick up a chair and bust it over yer head before bothering with a glass of beer because it's a waste of good beer.

He'll then buy you a round when the bleeding stops because he's got a cool story to tell you then. I'm serious, it goes like that. It's the young hooligans that ruin it for everybody.

True story: I was in a small pub north of Glasgow, and the friendly bartender asked me how I liked my scotch. I didn't ask for scotch, but beer, but I guess that wasn't an option given they practically had taps built into the basement of the local distillery.

Anyways, he pours me a full glass of about 16oz of Chivas Passport and charges me a pound for it. Then refuses to leave until I drink it down while talking politics. Smoothest stuff I ever drank and made American whiskey taste like pickled hamster urine in comparison. Of course I coulnd't feel my arms or legs for three hours afterwards. Only buzz I ever had where your head was totally straight, but your body was fubar. Weird.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: spikespiegal
I've been in bars in Scotland....and Ireland.

I don't care if you build beer mugs out of nerf foam. If you call a Scotsman's sister an English Bulldog, he'll pick up a chair and bust it over yer head before bothering with a glass of beer because it's a waste of good beer.

He'll then buy you a round when the bleeding stops because he's got a cool story to tell you then. I'm serious, it goes like that. It's the young hooligans that ruin it for everybody.

True story: I was in a small pub north of Glasgow, and the friendly bartender asked me how I liked my scotch. I didn't ask for scotch, but beer, but I guess that wasn't an option given they practically had taps built into the basement of the local distillery.

Anyways, he pours me a full glass of about 16oz of Chivas Passport and charges me a pound for it. Then refuses to leave until I drink it down while talking politics. Smoothest stuff I ever drank and made American whiskey taste like pickled hamster urine in comparison. Of course I coulnd't feel my arms or legs for three hours afterwards. Only buzz I ever had where your head was totally straight, but your body was fubar. Weird.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: DonVito

Absurd. Why aren't you bothered by the draconian measures imposed by our allies in, say, Saudi Arabia? I don't see there being any significant risk of a ban on glass in American bars, but in any case there is no constitutional right to bear glass in a bar (I think the Founding Fathers mostly drank out of tankards), so there's nothing to prevent your local or state legislators from passing just such a measure. I suggest you start a letter-writing campaign immediately if you are so concerned.

Your original statement and intent is absurd. It does not matter whether something is happening in Scotland, Antarctica, or the US. It doesn't matter if something worse is happening somewhere else (don't look here, look over there!). People are interested in different topics, some domestic, some international, some a mix of both.

There are several threads involving non-Americans about American issues. It goes the other way around, too.

I beg to differ, for obvious reasons.

This thread is one of several by "Specop 007" that seem to imply that restrictions on various inanimate objects constitute threats to Americans' right to keep and bear arms. It's your typical NRA-inspired lunacy. I am a gun owner and avid shooter, but the extreme members of the gun lobby are thoroughly wacky IMO.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: DonVito

Absurd. Why aren't you bothered by the draconian measures imposed by our allies in, say, Saudi Arabia? I don't see there being any significant risk of a ban on glass in American bars, but in any case there is no constitutional right to bear glass in a bar (I think the Founding Fathers mostly drank out of tankards), so there's nothing to prevent your local or state legislators from passing just such a measure. I suggest you start a letter-writing campaign immediately if you are so concerned.

Your original statement and intent is absurd. It does not matter whether something is happening in Scotland, Antarctica, or the US. It doesn't matter if something worse is happening somewhere else (don't look here, look over there!). People are interested in different topics, some domestic, some international, some a mix of both.

There are several threads involving non-Americans about American issues. It goes the other way around, too.

I beg to differ, for obvious reasons.

This thread is one of several by "Specop 007" that seem to imply that restrictions on various inanimate objects constitute threats to Americans' right to keep and bear arms. It's your typical NRA-inspired lunacy. I am a gun owner and avid shooter, but the extreme members of the gun lobby are thoroughly wacky IMO.

Ah, ok. I don't follow the guns discussion on this forum, so I wasn't aware that there was an attempt to make that sort of connection.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: DonVito

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: DonVito

Absurd. Why aren't you bothered by the draconian measures imposed by our allies in, say, Saudi Arabia? I don't see there being any significant risk of a ban on glass in American bars, but in any case there is no constitutional right to bear glass in a bar (I think the Founding Fathers mostly drank out of tankards), so there's nothing to prevent your local or state legislators from passing just such a measure. I suggest you start a letter-writing campaign immediately if you are so concerned.

Your original statement and intent is absurd. It does not matter whether something is happening in Scotland, Antarctica, or the US. It doesn't matter if something worse is happening somewhere else (don't look here, look over there!). People are interested in different topics, some domestic, some international, some a mix of both.

There are several threads involving non-Americans about American issues. It goes the other way around, too.

I beg to differ, for obvious reasons.

This thread is one of several by "Specop 007" that seem to imply that restrictions on various inanimate objects constitute threats to Americans' right to keep and bear arms. It's your typical NRA-inspired lunacy. I am a gun owner and avid shooter, but the extreme members of the gun lobby are thoroughly wacky IMO.

Ah, ok. I don't follow the guns discussion on this forum, so I wasn't aware that there was an attempt to make that sort of connection.

You should also note DonVito likes to make wild assumptions. He'd make a fabulous fiction writer.
Let me clarify what hes trying to say.

I take my gun rights very seriously, and yes they are ALWAYS under attack. But to say banning glass in Scotland threatens my gun rights is a stretch.

The point I'm trying to make is governments the world over and ratcheting down on liberties and freedoms their people have. Look at what has happened here with the War on Terror. Look what has happened here with the "politically Correct" movement. This is yet another example of a government restricting peoples rights for whatever reasons it sees fit.

Remember, some 200 odd years ago our founding fathers left to find freedom. We should always be hesitant to give up ANY freedoms for ANY reason. The Constitution was meant as a framework for our government. WE grant powers to the GOVERNMENT, NOT the other way around. In this day and age its exactly the opposite. The government grants rights to us as it sees fit. This is NOT the government our founding fathers envisioned. Our government should fear we the people, not the other way around!!

And in fact EVERY government should have a great deal of respect for "We the people", whoeevr they may be. When they governments lose that bit of fear and respect, they are all too ready to move on to restricting thier people in an eventual goal of a modern day enslavement.

So when I post an article about Scotland banning glass, its not to say "Look! They banned glass, my God they want to take our guns!" but rather to say "Look! Another government overstepping its bounds!".
And what happens there and there and there DOES affect us. Think it doesnt? Look at NAFTA. Look at WHO, UN, NATO.
Heres a prime example that hits home for me personally. The UN has for some time been working towards a global ban on guns. ALL civilian ownership of firearms will be forbidden the world over. They have lobbied many times to have this apply to America. The ONLY reason it faces such stiff opposition is because of the NRA, which works to protect our Rights defined in the Bill of Rights.

But the point is, there are entities who are working to affect politics on a global level and the policies they push for are not with the intent of making life better for us serfs and slaves but rather to forward their own insidious agendas.

Is my tinfoil too tight? Maybe....Or maybe I'm just looking a bit farther down the road then most people whos attention span is about 30 minutes, which coincides nicely with American Idol.......

 

[Future Shock]

You know SpecOp, I know a country that had EXACTLY the type of gun ownership and carry laws you would have loved: Lebanon during the 80s. You would carry an AK-47 or a Desert Eagle-type handgun everywhere, and you would sling it over your back even when filling your car with gas. And everyone did it, all the time - you would carry your submachine gun to the market, to pick up your kids from school, etc. etc. etc.

And when things REALLY got exciting, you would put your mattresses up against the windows of your house or apartment, and sleep under your furniture, because of the stray rounds and occasional RPG that would fly down the street at 3AM.

I am not making this up - I know too many people as friends that grew up there at that time. These are true stories.

Funny how all of those guns, everywhere, didn't stop people from shooting other people. Funny how crime and murder still existed in great quantities.

In the last 20 years it has taken them to collect most of the guns, and to finally civilize their country to the point where people do NOT carry a weapon when filling their car with gas or picking their children up. They consider it one of their finest achievements - the NON-carrying of weapons. It has allowed them to re-build a country that was once the pearl of the southern Med - apartment prices in Beiruit have skyrocketed in recent years, and there are more bars and nightclubs in Beiruit per square mile now then in NYC or Paris.

But it wasn't that way when everyone carried a gun. Nor was NYC safer in the 70s when everyone carried before the total ban - and I know THAT cause I lived there at that time. Think about it - it is hard to find a civilization that has been made more safe with more guns in civilian hands...

Future Shock

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

The point I'm trying to make is governments the world over and ratcheting down on liberties and freedoms their people have. Look at what has happened here with the War on Terror. Look what has happened here with the "politically Correct" movement. This is yet another example of a government restricting peoples rights for whatever reasons it sees fit.

I'm concerned about the attitudes and actions on liberties and freedom as well (I think most people are). I don't see this as much of a restriction though, more of a safety issue like rules by the FDA. Personally I'm worried more about things such as (let's take Germany as an example) the infiltration of political parties by state intelligence services, the attempt to ban political parties, peoples' desire to restrict freedom of religion, etc. I can see how people can be opposed to this though.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: Future Shock
You know SpecOp, I know a country that had EXACTLY the type of gun ownership and carry laws you would have loved: Lebanon during the 80s. You would carry an AK-47 or a Desert Eagle-type handgun everywhere, and you would sling it over your back even when filling your car with gas. And everyone did it, all the time - you would carry your submachine gun to the market, to pick up your kids from school, etc. etc. etc.

And when things REALLY got exciting, you would put your mattresses up against the windows of your house or apartment, and sleep under your furniture, because of the stray rounds and occasional RPG that would fly down the street at 3AM.

I am not making this up - I know too many people as friends that grew up there at that time. These are true stories.

Funny how all of those guns, everywhere, didn't stop people from shooting other people. Funny how crime and murder still existed in great quantities.

In the last 20 years it has taken them to collect most of the guns, and to finally civilize their country to the point where people do NOT carry a weapon when filling their car with gas or picking their children up. They consider it one of their finest achievements - the NON-carrying of weapons. It has allowed them to re-build a country that was once the pearl of the southern Med - apartment prices in Beiruit have skyrocketed in recent years, and there are more bars and nightclubs in Beiruit per square mile now then in NYC or Paris.

But it wasn't that way when everyone carried a gun. Nor was NYC safer in the 70s when everyone carried before the total ban - and I know THAT cause I lived there at that time. Think about it - it is hard to find a civilization that has been made more safe with more guns in civilian hands...

Future Shock

Check crime stats for states that have issued CCW's.
They've gone DOWN.

The point you make isnt entirely valid. Not everyone should have a gun. Criminals should not have guns. We have checks and balances in place to cut down on this.

Now, whether or not a convictyed felon who has served his time should own a gun is another issue entirely, but the point is if theres NO checks to gun ownership then criminals will own guns.

Then of course you need very stiff laws to convince criminals not to pursue gun ownership. Say....If a convicted felon is found guilty of using a firearm to commit a crime they get mandatory life in prison.
Might cut down on those criminals with multiple charges on their records.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Specop 007

The point I'm trying to make is governments the world over and ratcheting down on liberties and freedoms their people have. Look at what has happened here with the War on Terror. Look what has happened here with the "politically Correct" movement. This is yet another example of a government restricting peoples rights for whatever reasons it sees fit.

I'm concerned about the attitudes and actions on liberties and freedom as well (I think most people are). I don't see this as much of a restriction though, more of a safety issue like rules by the FDA. Personally I'm worried more about things such as (let's take Germany as an example) the infiltration of political parties by state intelligence services, the attempt to ban political parties, peoples' desire to restrict freedom of religion, etc. I can see how people can be opposed to this though.

I agree, in the big picture this is pretty minor.
But I'm always leary of any infringement on peoples rights, be it wearing a seatbelt, having to drink in plastic cups or having your local intelligence agency spy on you.