Scores killed in China protests

[Dr. Zaus]

Violence in China's restive western region of Xinjiang has left at least 140 people dead and more than 800 people injured, state media say

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8135203.stm

China is one country but not one nation. The values and beliefs of people across the nation vary so much that noam chomsky says that there is no 'Chinese' language and refuses to call the different languages spoken by the Chinese 'dialects' any more than Spanish is a 'dialect' of Italian.

edit:
here is support for "It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china." something essential to understanding the context of the issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_in_China
http://books.google.com/books?...xepRSov1ApWOyASXgfnrAg

Basically, of those who apply to move into the cities only 1% are granted the 'right' to move.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
Violence in China's restive western region of Xinjiang has left at least 140 people dead and more than 800 people injured, state media say

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8135203.stm

China is one country but not one nation. The values and beliefs of people across the nation vary so much that noam chomsky says that there is no 'Chinese' language and refuses to call the different languages spoken by the Chinese 'dialects' any more than Spanish is a 'dialect' of Italian.

Stop exaggerating. Yes China is made up of many different ethnic groups. A country with 4000 years of history, war and conquer will do that to you. But Han people is about 92% of the population with the rest of 50something minority group made up of the other 8%. I would not call that "not one nation". I would say there are more than 8% of people who don't speak english at all right here in the US.

 

[guyver01]

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china.

maybe i missed it in the article.. but where does it state that?

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china.

maybe i missed it in the article.. but where does it state that?

It doesn't. I'm simply providing context to the social-disorder that the article talks about based on information I've gotten from Chinese cohorts.

I would say there are more than 8% of people who don't speak english at all right here in the US.

only 8%? that's over 100 million people; Portugal has a population of only 10 million, France only 65million and they qualify for a nation and a language.

The point is that if 100 million white people where being used as surfs we would think that was a bad thing.. but because that many people are being enslaved by a nation of people that don't look a lot like the US founding fathers we look the other way.

 

[guyver01]

Originally posted by: DixyCrat

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china.

maybe i missed it in the article.. but where does it state that?

It doesn't. I'm simply providing context to the social-disorder that the article talks about based on information I've gotten from Chinese cohorts.

lock this crap thread up then...

you're making nothing more than a troll post, with opinion not even about an article.

 

[StageLeft]

That hyperbole about moving's illegality was not something immediately obvious upon reading the thread and I did interpret from the summary that you were stating a fact relayed in the article.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DixyCrat

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china.

maybe i missed it in the article.. but where does it state that?

It doesn't. I'm simply providing context to the social-disorder that the article talks about based on information I've gotten from Chinese cohorts.

I would say there are more than 8% of people who don't speak english at all right here in the US.

only 8%? that's over 100 million people; Portugal has a population of only 10 million, France only 65million and they qualify for a nation and a language.

The point is that if 100 million white people where being used as surfs we would think that was a bad thing.. but because that many people are being enslaved by a nation of people that don't look a lot like the US founding fathers we look the other way.

First of all, your info is seriously outdated. People from inner province have been moving to coastal area to look for better work for ages. Even people from Taiwan, who is supposed to be the enemy of China, work and live freely in China.

And second, citing abosolute number is meaningless. Any fraction of Chinese population is gonna be large with their #1 population. And it's hard for any country to claim the country is uniform with diversity being the keyword these days. Even France in your example have about 5~10% Muslim with very different background and language from the typical French people. Right here in the US, ~34% minority, 15% Hispanic, many of which don't speak English at home.

Lastly, where do you get all the minority are being enslaved? It's two way street. Minority don't riot/claim independance, there will be no crackdown. There are many other minorities that have blended well with the Han peoeple. And for those minority who wanna seek independance, just prepare to shed blood like everyone else, like US during Civil war, like US during war against British. But to think China should/will just sit there and allow people to claim independance and not use force is just being stupid.

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: DixyCrat

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china.

maybe i missed it in the article.. but where does it state that?

It doesn't. I'm simply providing context to the social-disorder that the article talks about based on information I've gotten from Chinese cohorts.

I would say there are more than 8% of people who don't speak english at all right here in the US.

only 8%? that's over 100 million people; Portugal has a population of only 10 million, France only 65million and they qualify for a nation and a language.

The point is that if 100 million white people where being used as surfs we would think that was a bad thing.. but because that many people are being enslaved by a nation of people that don't look a lot like the US founding fathers we look the other way.

First of all, your info is seriously outdated. People from inner province have been moving to coastal area to look for better work for ages. Even people from Taiwan, who is supposed to be the enemy of China, work and live freely in China.

And second, citing abosolute number is meaningless. Any fraction of Chinese population is gonna be large with their #1 population. And it's hard for any country to claim the country is uniform with diversity being the keyword these days. Even France in your example have about 5~10% Muslim with very different background and language from the typical French people. Right here in the US, ~34% minority, 15% Hispanic, many of which don't speak English at home.

Lastly, where do you get all the minority are being enslaved? It's two way street. Minority don't riot/claim independance, there will be no crackdown. There are many other minorities that have blended well with the Han peoeple. And for those minority who wanna seek independance, just prepare to shed blood like everyone else, like US during Civil war, like US during war against British. But to think China should/will just sit there and allow people to claim independance and not use force is just being stupid.

The problem is some Hans, particularly the "young, patriotic" types, hold beliefs which can only be described as fascism.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: DixyCrat

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china.

maybe i missed it in the article.. but where does it state that?

It doesn't. I'm simply providing context to the social-disorder that the article talks about based on information I've gotten from Chinese cohorts.

I would say there are more than 8% of people who don't speak english at all right here in the US.

only 8%? that's over 100 million people; Portugal has a population of only 10 million, France only 65million and they qualify for a nation and a language.

The point is that if 100 million white people where being used as surfs we would think that was a bad thing.. but because that many people are being enslaved by a nation of people that don't look a lot like the US founding fathers we look the other way.

First of all, your info is seriously outdated. People from inner province have been moving to coastal area to look for better work for ages. Even people from Taiwan, who is supposed to be the enemy of China, work and live freely in China.

And second, citing abosolute number is meaningless. Any fraction of Chinese population is gonna be large with their #1 population. And it's hard for any country to claim the country is uniform with diversity being the keyword these days. Even France in your example have about 5~10% Muslim with very different background and language from the typical French people. Right here in the US, ~34% minority, 15% Hispanic, many of which don't speak English at home.

Lastly, where do you get all the minority are being enslaved? It's two way street. Minority don't riot/claim independance, there will be no crackdown. There are many other minorities that have blended well with the Han peoeple. And for those minority who wanna seek independance, just prepare to shed blood like everyone else, like US during Civil war, like US during war against British. But to think China should/will just sit there and allow people to claim independance and not use force is just being stupid.

The problem is some Hans, particularly the "young, patriotic" types, hold beliefs which can only be described as fascism.

oh really? how many of those people do you personally know? I've met hundreds of han chinese from China personally during my study, work and 100% of them are pure capitalist and none of them fascist.

 

[Sacrilege]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: DixyCrat

Originally posted by: guyver01

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china.

maybe i missed it in the article.. but where does it state that?

It doesn't. I'm simply providing context to the social-disorder that the article talks about based on information I've gotten from Chinese cohorts.

I would say there are more than 8% of people who don't speak english at all right here in the US.

only 8%? that's over 100 million people; Portugal has a population of only 10 million, France only 65million and they qualify for a nation and a language.

The point is that if 100 million white people where being used as surfs we would think that was a bad thing.. but because that many people are being enslaved by a nation of people that don't look a lot like the US founding fathers we look the other way.

First of all, your info is seriously outdated. People from inner province have been moving to coastal area to look for better work for ages. Even people from Taiwan, who is supposed to be the enemy of China, work and live freely in China.

And second, citing abosolute number is meaningless. Any fraction of Chinese population is gonna be large with their #1 population. And it's hard for any country to claim the country is uniform with diversity being the keyword these days. Even France in your example have about 5~10% Muslim with very different background and language from the typical French people. Right here in the US, ~34% minority, 15% Hispanic, many of which don't speak English at home.

Lastly, where do you get all the minority are being enslaved? It's two way street. Minority don't riot/claim independance, there will be no crackdown. There are many other minorities that have blended well with the Han peoeple. And for those minority who wanna seek independance, just prepare to shed blood like everyone else, like US during Civil war, like US during war against British. But to think China should/will just sit there and allow people to claim independance and not use force is just being stupid.

The problem is some Hans, particularly the "young, patriotic" types, hold beliefs which can only be described as fascism.

oh really? how many of those people do you personally know? I've met hundreds of han chinese from China personally during my study, work and 100% of them are pure capitalist and none of them fascist.

Perhaps a better word would have been racist.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

h really? how many of those people do you personally know? I've met hundreds of han chinese from China personally during my study, work and 100% of them are pure capitalist and none of them fascist.

yep, when the state picks the corporate winners and losers it's prototypical Italian fascism.

, citing abosolute number is meaningless.

no sr! over 100million people being repressed is over 100million people being repressed, no matter how many people are doing the repressing!


These people are, sadly, surfs of the land. Only some 1% are "allowed" to move.

how many of those people do you personally know? I've met hundreds of han chinese from China personally during my study,

No doubt that the people you met are benefiting greatly from the fascist state and should have little to complain about and are likely totally uninformed regarding the problems with their nation.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

dp

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Perhaps a better word would have been racist.

No more racist then your typical white dude in some trailer park.

 

[Red Dawn]

I read the article about this on CNN and it says the trouble started when there was a giant brawl between a group of Hans and a group of Uyghurs at a toy factory in Guangdong province in Southern China last week. This led to violence in the predominantly Uyghur Xinjiang province in Western China where groups of Uyghurs were randomly attacking Hans in the streets of the Xinjiang capital of Urumqi.

So it seems that everybody was Kung Foo Fighting.:shocked:

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DixyCrat

h really? how many of those people do you personally know? I've met hundreds of han chinese from China personally during my study, work and 100% of them are pure capitalist and none of them fascist.

yep, when the state picks the corporate winners and losers it's prototypical Italian fascism.

, citing abosolute number is meaningless.

no sr! over 100million people being repressed is over 100million people being repressed, no matter how many people are doing the repressing!


These people are, sadly, surfs of the land. Only some 1% are "allowed" to move.

how many of those people do you personally know? I've met hundreds of han chinese from China personally during my study,

No doubt that the people you met are benefiting greatly from the fascist state and should have little to complain about and are likely totally uninformed regarding the problems with their nation.

Stop trolling. Where do you get all 100 million are being repressed? Where do you get 1% are allowed to move. And where do you gain your knowledge and your info that you know more about the problems in China than all the people that I have met, who lived/grow up in China, and number of them have gone/lived abroad with access to free press.

Let's see you backup your claim, and if you cannot, stop spewing bs.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: Sacrilege

Perhaps a better word would have been racist.

No more racist then your typical white dude in some trailer park.

So you are saying their are a billion trailer trash Hans living in China??

All kidding aside according the the article on CNN the ethnic minority Uyghurs have been complaining about rampant discrimination from the dominant Hans.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Where do you get all 100 million are being repressed?

from <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/CH.html">https://www.cia.gov/library......tbook/geos/CH.html</a>

Population: 1,338,612,968 (July 2009 est.)
Christian 3%-4%, Muslim 1%-2%

Why this is repression: The religious books of these faiths is repressed and 'churches' are for show allowing some few who are visitors or tokens to worship. I know people who smuggle bibles into China.

urban population: 43% of total population (2008)
rate of urbanization: 2.7% annual rate of change (2005-10 est.)

Why this is repression: In his book Alan green span says that only 1% of those who apply to move to the urban centers are actually approved for the move; any time you are not allowed to leave but, rather, required to work the land you were born in it is called forced-servitude, slavery or 'Surfdom'

Han Chinese 91.5%, Zhuang, Manchu, Hui, Miao, Uyghur, Tujia, Yi, Mongol, Tibetan, Buyi, Dong, Yao, Korean, and other nationalities 8.5% (2000 census)
8.5% is 113 million people, those people speak a different language and live a different life style, they are told how to live, who can move up in life, whose life is worthy of freedom and who's isn't;

Just because you may have access to freedom of the press when you leave china does not mean that a life time of propaganda doesn't warp your perspective on the world. The environmental destruction of the lands inhabited by minority populations has been well documented.

How many people in the US grow up with a 'free' press, have full access to information and still think Iraq had WMDs?

 

[JEDIYoda]

This purely a 100% troll thread....

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: DixyCrat

Where do you get all 100 million are being repressed?

from <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/l............H.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/l............os/CH.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/libr.........k/geos/CH.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/library......tbook/geos/CH.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/library/pu...-factbook/geos/CH.html"><a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/CH.html">https://www.cia.gov/l............a></a></a></a></a></a>

Population: 1,338,612,968 (July 2009 est.)
Christian 3%-4%, Muslim 1%-2%

Why this is repression: The religious books of these faiths is repressed and 'churches' are for show allowing some few who are visitors or tokens to worship. I know people who smuggle bibles into China.

urban population: 43% of total population (2008)
rate of urbanization: 2.7% annual rate of change (2005-10 est.)

Why this is repression: In his book Alan green span says that only 1% of those who apply to move to the urban centers are actually approved for the move; any time you are not allowed to leave but, rather, required to work the land you were born in it is called forced-servitude, slavery or 'Surfdom'

Han Chinese 91.5%, Zhuang, Manchu, Hui, Miao, Uyghur, Tujia, Yi, Mongol, Tibetan, Buyi, Dong, Yao, Korean, and other nationalities 8.5% (2000 census)
8.5% is 113 million people, those people speak a different language and live a different life style, they are told how to live, who can move up in life, whose life is worthy of freedom and who's isn't;

Just because you may have access to freedom of the press when you leave china does not mean that a life time of propaganda doesn't warp your perspective on the world. The environmental destruction of the lands inhabited by minority populations has been well documented.

How many people in the US grow up with a 'free' press, have full access to information and still think Iraq had WMDs?

20 million migrant workers lost job

So if only 1% of people are allowed to move, where does all these migrant worker who lost their job came from? Do the math, if 20 mil = 15% (unemployed migrant worker), what is the total number of migrant worker. Considering the total employee pool in China, what is that percent? I am sure that's > 1% that you pull out of your @ss.

Again, where do you get those 113million people are told how to live? Are 15% of hispanic here told how to live? told what language to speak? There are minorities in every country, they have to learn to speak the national language but it doesn't mean they don't have any right or freedom. In fact, Chinese constitution spell out that every minority should enjoy equal right as the han people, and not only that, minority group don't have to follow the one child policy that han people have to follow.

Educate yourself before you spew more bs on the Internet.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
Violence in China's restive western region of Xinjiang has left at least 140 people dead and more than 800 people injured, state media say

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8135203.stm

China is one country but not one nation. The values and beliefs of people across the nation vary so much that noam chomsky says that there is no 'Chinese' language and refuses to call the different languages spoken by the Chinese 'dialects' any more than Spanish is a 'dialect' of Italian.

edit:
here is support for "It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china." something essential to understanding the context of the issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_in_China
http://books.google.com/books?...xepRSov1ApWOyASXgfnrAg

Basically, of those who apply to move into the cities only 1% are granted the 'right' to move.

If everyone moved, the big cities in China would be even more overcrowded. Where will all the people stay? In slums? You have diseases and crime shoot up. There's a billion people in China.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

If everyone moved, the big cities in China would be even more overcrowded. Where will all the people stay? In slums? You have diseases and crime shoot up. There's a billion people in China.

I sympathize with the plights that freedom would bring but dealing with the homeless by enslaving them is a clear violation of human rights.

So if only 1% of people are allowed to move, where does all these migrant worker who lost their job came from?

Migrant labor is not the same as allowing people to change their permanent home to where they like. Your observation that 1.5% of the population are migrant workers in no way changes the fact that people are surfs to the land.

Mexicans coming to America for a better life is not the proper analogy. Not letting someone move from Wyoming to California is more like the situation. Except the Provence that these people are stuck in is one where they have NO chance of EVER changing their living situation to something better, no matter how smart, dedicated or hard working they are.

Chinese fascism gives you stability at the cost of destroying the ability smart, hardworking dedicated people to ever move from their place.

The concept of "it does not matter how smart you are, you are screwed" is so foreign to us smarty-pants Americans that it hardly computes... but that is the reality for millions of Chinese.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
Violence in China's restive western region of Xinjiang has left at least 140 people dead and more than 800 people injured, state media say

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8135203.stm

China is one country but not one nation. The values and beliefs of people across the nation vary so much that noam chomsky says that there is no 'Chinese' language and refuses to call the different languages spoken by the Chinese 'dialects' any more than Spanish is a 'dialect' of Italian.

edit:
here is support for "It is illeal to move from one provence to another in china." something essential to understanding the context of the issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migration_in_China
http://books.google.com/books?...xepRSov1ApWOyASXgfnrAg

Basically, of those who apply to move into the cities only 1% are granted the 'right' to move.

If everyone moved, the big cities in China would be even more overcrowded. Where will all the people stay? In slums? You have diseases and crime shoot up. There's a billion people in China.

It's a simple combination of choice and supply and demand. These things work themselves out in all societies. Your hypothetical is fantasy.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
Violence in China's restive western region of Xinjiang has left at least 140 people dead and more than 800 people injured, state media say

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8135203.stm

China is one country but not one nation. The values and beliefs of people across the nation vary so much that noam chomsky says that there is no 'Chinese' language and refuses to call the different languages spoken by the Chinese 'dialects' any more than Spanish is a 'dialect' of Italian.

Stop exaggerating. Yes China is made up of many different ethnic groups. A country with 4000 years of history, war and conquer will do that to you. But Han people is about 92% of the population with the rest of 50something minority group made up of the other 8%. I would not call that "not one nation". I would say there are more than 8% of people who don't speak english at all right here in the US.

A lot of those minorities don't want to be part of China. China captured them and is populating the restive areas with Han Chinese. I have no opinion on the rights of any of these groups, but don't pretend that all these groups are content with their political masters and can exercise their rights given to them by the Chinese constitution. In essence, China is a fascist state that is being held together by force.

 

[makken]

Originally posted by: DixyCrat

Why this is repression: The religious books of these faiths is repressed and 'churches' are for show allowing some few who are visitors or tokens to worship. I know people who smuggle bibles into China.

eh?
I'm currently posting from Beijing and every hotel i've been in has had a bible. I'm sure their library has one as well --- yup, just checked, it does.

Han Chinese 91.5%, Zhuang, Manchu, Hui, Miao, Uyghur, Tujia, Yi, Mongol, Tibetan, Buyi, Dong, Yao, Korean, and other nationalities 8.5% (2000 census)
8.5% is 113 million people, those people speak a different language and live a different life style, they are told how to live, who can move up in life, whose life is worthy of freedom and who's isn't;

I somehow lost you when you went from only 1% of people are allowed to move to if you're a minority you're automatically oppressed. There are minorites that reside in beijing and other urban cities you know, it's not 100% han.

There's lots of stuff to disagree with China on (Im not too fond of the fact that I can't go onto youtube here), but you're really stretching it on this.

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: rchiu

Originally posted by: DixyCrat
Violence in China's restive western region of Xinjiang has left at least 140 people dead and more than 800 people injured, state media say

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8135203.stm

China is one country but not one nation. The values and beliefs of people across the nation vary so much that noam chomsky says that there is no 'Chinese' language and refuses to call the different languages spoken by the Chinese 'dialects' any more than Spanish is a 'dialect' of Italian.

Stop exaggerating. Yes China is made up of many different ethnic groups. A country with 4000 years of history, war and conquer will do that to you. But Han people is about 92% of the population with the rest of 50something minority group made up of the other 8%. I would not call that "not one nation". I would say there are more than 8% of people who don't speak english at all right here in the US.

A lot of those minorities don't want to be part of China. China captured them and is populating the restive areas with Han Chinese. I have no opinion on the rights of any of these groups, but don't pretend that all these groups are content with their political masters and can exercise their rights given to them by the Chinese constitution. In essence, China is a fascist state that is being held together by force.

Again, what would you have China do? Let people claim independence? Why didn't the great Lincoln be so giving and why he must go to war with the South? Why doesn't India just give Kashmir to Pakistan or let it become independent? So by your logic, any country that try to keep it's sovereignty intact is a fascist state?