Score one for free speech

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
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Florida Pro-Life Activists Win First Amendment Battle

(CNSNews.com) - A federal judge in Florida has ordered the City of Fort Meyers to stop enforcing an ordinance that threatened pro-life activists with arrest and fines every time they appeared on the sidewalk in front of the city's only abortion clinic.

"We are pleased that our clients and other pro-life advocates will no longer have their First Amendment rights violated in Fort Myers," said Edward L. White III, the Thomas More Law Center attorney who handled the case.

White said the sidewalk counselors, as they call themselves, are now free to pray and pass out literature "without unconstitutional restriction, as they try to save the lives of unborn children."

The lawsuit filed by the Thomas More Law Center targeted a Fort Myers city ordinance requiring pro-life advocates to get a permit before more than two of them could gather outside the Fort Myers Women's Health Clinic.

As a result, the Law Center noted, if two sidewalk counselors appeared in front of the abortion clinic and then were joined by an unexpected third pro-lifer, all three were subject to arrest and fines.

Because of the continuous threat of arrest, some pro-life counselors abandoned their sidewalk counseling in front of the Fort Myers Women's Health Clinic, the Law Center noted.

The lawsuit, filed in early November on behalf of three Christian pro-lifer activists, claimed that enforcement of the ordinance violated the plaintiffs' constitutional rights, including their freedom of speech. The lawsuit also targeted a separate city policy barred pro-life advocates from approaching people and distributing informational literature.

The suit sought one dollar in nominal damages for each of the plaintiffs and the repayment of the five-dollars in permit fees they were required to pay over the years, plus attorneys' fees.

This week, a federal judge ordered Fort Myers to stop enforcing its permit ordinance as well as its policy prohibiting the distribution of literature.

The Thomas More Law Center describes its mission as defending and promoting the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life through education, litigation, and related activities.

Link
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
i think they're a little full of themselves but they have the right to peaceably assemble. they just have to be careful not to tread on anyone else's rights.
 

racebannon

Member
Dec 5, 2004
67
0
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Originally posted by: Riprorin

The Thomas More Law Center describes its mission as defending and promoting the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life through education, litigation, and related activities.

Link

Waambulance chasers.
 

aidanjm

Lifer
Aug 9, 2004
12,411
2
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Originally posted by: judasmachine
i think they're a little full of themselves but they have the right to peaceably assemble. they just have to be careful not to tread on anyone else's rights.

When does peaceful assembly becoming stalking, or harrassment, I wonder?
 

slurmsmackenzie

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2004
1,413
0
0
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: judasmachine
i think they're a little full of themselves but they have the right to peaceably assemble. they just have to be careful not to tread on anyone else's rights.

When does peaceful assembly becoming stalking, or harrassment, I wonder?

what about the paparazzi, the media? until that's considered stalking, i don't think it's an issue.

 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,756
48,585
136
So you can harrass and lambast women excercising control over their own bodies, just don't try to advocate constitutional rights at a GOP event. Gotcha.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,665
20,124
136
Did any of them ever bother to file for a permit? That's what I'd like to know.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
20,248
7,375
136
Instead of trying to stop abortions they should go collecting money for single mothers and help those.

They of course have the right to speak their mind, but the way they do it isn't my cup of tea.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
63,665
20,124
136
Originally posted by: biostud
Instead of trying to stop abortions they should go collecting money for single mothers and help those.

They of course have the right to speak their mind, but the way they do it isn't my cup of tea.

I don't think you understand the way they think. Single mothers shouldn't be aided; they should have abstained from intercourse in the first place. Now they just have to live with the mistake. All these people care is that the kids are born, not what happens to them afterwards.
This is, of course, a broad generalization, but one based in fact.
 

tweakmm

Lifer
May 28, 2001
18,436
4
0
Originally posted by: kage69
So you can harrass and lambast women excercising control over their own bodies, just don't try to advocate constitutional rights at a GOP event. Gotcha.
Exactly, you guys are finally getting this "do as I say and not as I do" stuff. :thumbsup:
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
0
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Originally posted by: kage69
So you can harrass and lambast women excercising control over their own bodies, just don't try to advocate constitutional rights at a GOP event. Gotcha.


Regardless of the tone a good point. Free speech is important but harassing people is not needed. We all have rights and no one should try to make it harder for someone to do what they please within the law. There would be a huge outcry if for instance some members of the KKK tried to harass anyone who wasn't white from entering a polling place during an election.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: Tommunist
Originally posted by: kage69
So you can harrass and lambast women excercising control over their own bodies, just don't try to advocate constitutional rights at a GOP event. Gotcha.


Regardless of the tone a good point. Free speech is important but harassing people is not needed. We all have rights and no one should try to make it harder for someone to do what they please within the law. There would be a huge outcry if for instance some members of the KKK tried to harass anyone who wasn't white from entering a polling place during an election.

Because that would be against the law - there are electioneering laws. Bad analogy.
 

judasmachine

Diamond Member
Sep 15, 2002
8,515
3
81
Originally posted by: aidanjm
Originally posted by: judasmachine
i think they're a little full of themselves but they have the right to peaceably assemble. they just have to be careful not to tread on anyone else's rights.

When does peaceful assembly becoming stalking, or harrassment, I wonder?



That is the grey area. I don't know the answer to that either.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
They can do whatever they want so long they're not harassing the clients of the clinic. Free speech is a beatiful thing.

However as soon as they start with the "you're going to hell" or "murdering kids" crap, they should get slapped with the fighting words thing that supreme court found outside the span of the amendment.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
11
0
I wondered what would happen if some a homosexual group gathered at a well-known church and started shouting "GOD CREATED ME GAY"... or something to that effect.
 

shimsham

Lifer
May 9, 2002
10,765
0
0
Originally posted by: her209
I wondered what would happen if some a homosexual group gathered at a well-known church and started shouting "GOD CREATED ME GAY"... or something to that effect.

you mean they havent?

i imagine they would be subject to the same laws and protections that the pro-lifers, or any protesters, are.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Seems rather hypocritical, to me. Esp. given Bush's no-free-speech zone during his campaign.

It's ok to allow free speech only when it fits certain peoples' agenda. :roll:
 

Centinel

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
409
0
0
Just a question, but does anyone feel that the abortion protestors should NOT be allowed to assemble?

 

Centinel

Senior member
Dec 21, 2004
409
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Seems rather hypocritical, to me. Esp. given Bush's no-free-speech zone during his campaign.

It's ok to allow free speech only when it fits certain peoples' agenda. :roll:

The abortion protestors probably have to maintain a certain distance from the building....just like protestors had to at the RNC and DNC

I dont see your point here?

 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Centinel
Originally posted by: conjur
Seems rather hypocritical, to me. Esp. given Bush's no-free-speech zone during his campaign.

It's ok to allow free speech only when it fits certain peoples' agenda. :roll:
The abortion protestors probably have to maintain a certain distance from the building....just like protestors had to at the RNC and DNC

I dont see your point here?
Because it sailed over your head. I wasn't talking about the RNC nor the DNC.

Also, there's nothing in the OP referring to a certain distance limitation.
 

Riprorin

Banned
Apr 25, 2000
9,634
0
0
Originally posted by: her209
I wondered what would happen if some a homosexual group gathered at a well-known church and started shouting "GOD CREATED ME GAY"... or something to that effect.

In vivid contrast to the dignified non-violence which characterized the African American civil rights movement as led by Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, gay extremist attempts to ride the civil rights bandwagon have been anything but civil.

Recently, gay activists vandalized California State office buildings. Burned State flags and California's governor in effigy after his veto of a special gay advantage bill. And pelted the governor himself with garbage at a speaking engagement following his veto.

In 1989, gay "AIDS activists" invaded a Roman Catholic mass at New York City's St. Patrick's Cathedral, shouting obscenities and defiling Communion elements. A few participants in this blatant desecration incurred slight legal penalties.

On Saturday, November 16, 1991, "A group of AIDS demonstrators dressed in suits and ties infiltrated the Family Concerns Conference brunch Saturday at First Baptist Church of Atlanta, then peppered the diners with hundreds of condoms while chanting `Safer sex saves lives.' The demonstrators were removed by church security guards and police. Outside, 90 placard-waving protesters marched in front of the church at Peachtree and Fifth streets, chanting and waving at automobiles as drivers honked and waved. There were no arrests.

"The action was staged by the National Organization for Women, Atlanta Pro-Choice Action Committee, and ACTUP/Atlanta [a radical gay activist organization]. The groups oppose the conservative Christian group's stands against both abortion and high school sex education courses that provide information about the use of condoms to prevent AIDS transmission" ("AIDS activists crash church brunch," Atlanta Journal Constitution, Sun., Nov. 17, 1991, emphasis added).

"A catalogue to an AIDS art show, partly funded by the National Endowment for the Arts, reflects the general tone [of gay "arts" attacks against the Roman Catholic Church]: [New York's] Cardinal O'Connor is a `fat cannibal in skirts' and his cathedral is a `house of walking swastikas'... Savage mockery of Christianity is now a conventional part of the public gay culture. A ridiculous looking Jesus figure carrying a cross is always featured in the gay Halloween parade in New York..." ("The gay tide of Catholic-bashing," U.S. News and World Report, April, 1991, p. 15.)

The National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) has given generous grants to homophile "works of art" which blatantly blaspheme traditional religious and family values -- to the applause of liberal gay advantage supporters who would doubtless fight any suggestion of federal funding for religious art "tooth and claw."

Gay activists' behavior at non-violent, pro-life Operation Rescue protests has been notoriously violent and even obscene. The Los Angeles Times, October 6, 1991, reported:

"Members of ACT UP, the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power, spit on, kiss and stick needles into Operation Rescue members and then shout `Welcome to the world of AIDS,' claims Bill Soucie, a Glendale abortion foe. Some ACT UP members push and shove Operation Rescue members, while others drop their trousers and moon their opponents or lift T-shirts to expose their breasts, he said...
About the nudity, ACT UP member David Barton is quoted: "`Sure, it's militant behavior,' he said. `These people are so offensive to us, we do whatever we can to offend them.' Nudity is sometimes just a spontaneous action, said [ACT UP member Judy] Kristel, who exposed her breasts at [a] June 29 demonstration. Her action and that of three others who exposed themselves was videotaped and the tape given to El Monte police for possible prosecution."

It is surely a measure of gay activists' political power that no arrests were made and no charges were filed. Nor were charges filed or arrests made at San Francisco's 1990 and 1991 Gay and Lesbian Pride Parades, of which we have video footage depicting:
Public nudity, both male and female. Lewd and lascivious acts, including public fondling of genitalia and several acts of what appears to be public anal sex between homosexuals. Transvestism, "leather culture," sadomasochistic paraphernalia, open promotion of pedophilia and savage ridicule of religious objects and symbols. Clear evidence of police presence, plus footage of San Francisco's mayor, who rode in and endorsed these parades. San Francisco police authorities were contacted and asked why no arrests were made. Their explanations were as follows:

1. Police officers present "may not have seen indecent behavior or received formal complaints." 2. Police "may have seen such behavior," but primary responsibility on that date was to "reflect community standards and maintain crowd control." 3. Mayor Art Agnos endorsed and participated in the parade, and the police department had to assume that his sanction was on anything that took place. 4. "These people [gays present] have shown they will riot at the drop of a hat, and it was the primary responsibility of police officers to keep the peace, even at the possible cost of tolerating public indecencies." In Madison, Wisconsin, on Sunday, September 8, 1991: "About 100 ACT Up protesters charged the Capitol... defacing the hallway leading to the governor's office with food and stickers and staging a `die-in' in the rotunda. They were protesting what they call `criminal' state policies against prison inmates with AIDS... The protesters were met by Capitol police and security officers, who closed the governor's office and blocked the group's entry. The protesters then tossed sandwiches and towels toward the door, and left numerous ACT Up stickers on the walls that portray [Wisconsin's governor Tommy] Thompson as a public health menace because of the prison policies. Other protesters used some type of black marker to write on the marble floor..." ("AIDS protesters deface Capitol," The Capital Times, September 9, 1991).

No arrests were reported in relation to this incident.

Obviously, that gay extremists can indulge in this kind of license, while ordinary rules of law are suspended, reflects considerable political power -- power gay activists themselves boast of having achieved. As recently as 1987, a report issued by the Federal Elections Commission stated that "The Human Rights Campaign Fund" [HRCF], the national homosexual PAC, was at that time the "16th largest independent political action committee (PAC) in the nation" and "the 39th largest PAC overall." Considering that at the time, more than 4,500 PACS had registered with the FEC, this represents enormous political power. The HRCF's Executive Director, Robert Basile commented on this news: "We have clearly become a big-league PAC, which means the gay and lesbian community has increasing power in American politics... This means we have recognizable clout in the election and in the legislative process of this country... For better or for worse, politics in this country responds to money, and politicians now know they had better respond to our community" (The Dallas Voice, June 19, 1987).

During the 1986 elections, HRCF raised more than $1.4 million. This put it in the top 1% of PACS nationwide. HRCF funded candidates in 112 political races -- "an incredible political achievement," according to political experts. By fiscal year 1991-1992, the HRCF's budget had grown to nearly $4 million. Recently, the HRCF announced a 1992-1993 projected budget of over $5 million (The Washington Blade, May 8, 1992, "Activists from around the country descend on the Hill"). The HRCF and affiliated gay PACs spent nearly $3 million in just six months of 1993, in attempts to see the ban on gays in the military lifted ("No Quick Fix," Out, Dec./Jan. 1994, p. 90).

In addition to the HRCF, gay militants have established the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund (GLVF), a Washington, D.C.-based PAC aimed at funding local, openly gay candidates, with an eye to changing public perception of gays, especially in mid-to-small-size cities and towns. GLVF boasts current national membership support in excess of $550,000 (The Washington Post, "Gays Are Gaining Ground in Local Politics," May 23, 1993, p. A22).

Political scientist J. David Woodward comments:

"Gay, lesbian and bisexual interest groups are among the fastest-growing and best-financed lobbies in the country. In 1993 the top six gay groups raised more than $12.5 million for operating and political purposes. In 1987 the same six groups had combined budgets of only $3.2 million [though, as observed above, this sum already qualified gay militant political power as `big league']. The Human Rights Campaign Fund, the leading homosexual political action group, ranked in the top 50 of more than 4,700 Political Action committees on the 1992 Federal Election Commission report. Contributions to HRCF were up 136 percent over donations in the previous reporting cycle. This one group is said to have given $3.5 million to the Clinton campaign in the last presidential election, and HRCF contributed to 190 Senate and House candidates with an 85 percent success ratio. In close contests where the homosexual lobby chose to concentrate its efforts by contributing between $7,000 to $10,000, HRCF candidates won 21 out of 28 times.

"The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force boasts of having won `countless victories' for homosexuals. The homosexual groups draw on over 150,000 regular donors and have a combined mailing list of about half a million. There are over 90 nationally based homosexual organizations, including professional subunits in the academic disciplines of sociology, psychology, and political science. On college campuses gay and lesbian studies programs are expanding, and `Gay Pride' events are a regular part of the academic calendar."(World Magazine, Oct. 30, 1993, reported in The Journal, Jan. 1994, pp. 6,7.)
10 Percent, a gay magazine, quotes current HRCF Executive Director Tim McFeeley as follows: "`By conservative estimates, the [gay] people who went to [Washington] D.C. [for the 1993 March on Washington] spent $100 million. That's the kind of money our community spends and [our political] organizations so desperately need'" ("Capital Gains," Fall 1993, p. 76). The Washington, D.C., Convention and Visitors Association's official estimate was "that the event brought more money to the capital -- $177 million -- than any other single event they'd tracked. Bill Clinton's inauguration, by contrast, brought in just $65 million" (Out, op. cit., p. 91, emphasis added).
Time magazine has commented: "Because [homosexuals] are highly mobilized and tend to have more discretionary income, gays have an impact on elections that is disproportionate to their number." Highlighting gay militants' sizeable donation to the Clinton presidential campaign, Time adds: "This power has even greater effect on the congressional level" ("The Shrinking Ten Percent," April 26, 1993, p. 29).

All this bespeaks anything but political powerlessness.

Link later.