Scientists Say That Gore Goes Too Far In 'An Inconvenient Truth'

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Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: JD50
lol, the irony, Brandonbull just pointed out to you why Al Gore has a vested financial interest in selling the lies and misinformation that he does...
There's no irony, at all. I don't see any conflict between advocating action to counter pollution and global warming and investing in businesses that provide means to further that end. :thumbsup: :cool: :thumbsup:

Since when is the concept of "doing well by doing good" any kind of crime? :roll:

You are deluded by your partisan love affair with anything left.
You have gore preaching the man made global warming religion to the faithful, looking to convert the heathens with predictions of death and destruction if we dont curb our appetites.

Then turns around and consumes at ridiculous rates and sells carbon credits to the very people he scares into believing the end of the world is coming from the evil fossil fuels.

You couldnt be more blatent in your motives but people like you defend to the end. The only question I have to ask is, when gore asks you to sign over your estate to him and have you run off the cliff with the other lemmings, will you?
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,888
2,788
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: JD50
lol, the irony, Brandonbull just pointed out to you why Al Gore has a vested financial interest in selling the lies and misinformation that he does...
There's no irony, at all. I don't see any conflict between advocating action to counter pollution and global warming and investing in businesses that provide means to further that end. :thumbsup: :cool: :thumbsup:

Since when is the concept of "doing well by doing good" any kind of crime? :roll:

You are deluded by your partisan love affair with anything left.
You have gore preaching the man made global warming religion to the faithful, looking to convert the heathens with predictions of death and destruction if we dont curb our appetites.

Then turns around and consumes at ridiculous rates and sells carbon credits to the very people he scares into believing the end of the world is coming from the evil fossil fuels.

You couldnt be more blatent in your motives but people like you defend to the end. The only question I have to ask is, when gore asks you to sign over your estate to him and have you run off the cliff with the other lemmings, will you?

:laugh:

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
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Originally posted by: Genx87
You are deluded by your partisan love affair with anything left.
And you are deluded by your allegience to those whose activities on this planet could result in there not being "anything left," including including our own species. :shocked:
You have gore preaching the man made global warming religion to the faithful, looking to convert the heathens with predictions of death and destruction if we dont curb our appetites.

Then turns around and consumes at ridiculous rates and sells carbon credits to the very people he scares into believing the end of the world is coming from the evil fossil fuels.

You couldnt be more blatent in your motives but people like you defend to the end. The only question I have to ask is, when gore asks you to sign over your estate to him and have you run off the cliff with the other lemmings, will you?
Lemmings supposedly blindly follow those in front of them to their own destruction, more like following malevolent leaders into a useless war based on lies than acting to save the planet and its inhaibants, including humanity.

Assuming for the moment that Gore is wrong about the severity of the problem, which is unlikely, the worst that can happen is, we'll arrive at a solution for it a little sooner. If he's right, we'd better hope we're lucky enough to get there in time, despite roadblocks created by those who stand to lose their polluting profit makers and the lemmings like you who follow them.

Assuming Bush, Cheney and big money war profiteers like Halliburton were wrong about going to war, which is a certainty, their criminality has already cost almost 3,200 American troops dead, tens of thousands wounded and handicapped, some for the rest of their lives, possibly hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian dead and wounded, and probably over a trillion dollars in debt our great grandchildren will still be paying off. :(

Anyone trying equate Gore and his investments in enviromental enterprises to what the Bushwhackos and their buddies have done is going to have to provide more than canned neocon BS to make that point. The vast majority of the world's scientists disagree so you'll have a hell of a time proving your idiotic assertions. Either prove it, or STFU. :laugh:
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Assuming for the moment that Gore is wrong about the severity of the problem the worst that can happen is, we'll arrive at a solution for it a little sooner
This is the way I see it too, thats' why I don't understand the outrage from the Right.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
It seems that quite a lot of scientists are upset at how the media is interpreting their results from their research. I posted an article about some of them a while ago here. This looks like a continuation of that.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
And you are deluded by your allegience to those whose activities on this planet could result in there not being "anything left," including including our own species.

Ill take that response as one of the 55% of faithful fools in the democratic party who answered a recent poll thinking the extinction of man kind from Global warming is coming.

The bolded part is the crux of the matter. Could, maybe, possibly. Those words are nothing close to concrete or absolute.

Lemmings supposedly blindly follow those in front of them to their own destruction, more like following malevolent leaders into a useless war based on lies than acting to save the species.

Running off the cliff isnt blindly following the ones in front of you to your destruction?
:confused:

Assuming for the moment that Gore is wrong about the severity of the problem, which is unlikely, the worst that can happen is, we'll arrive at a solution for it a little sooner. If he's right, we'd better hope we're lucky enough to get there in time, despite roadblocks created by those who stand to lose their polluting profit makers and the lemmings like you who follow them.

Sounds like the man made global warming equivalent to revelations. The end is coming, repent. When is it coming? Eventually!

Assuming Bush, Cheney and big money swindlers like Halliburton were wrong about going to war, which is a certainty, their criminality has already cost almost 3,200 American troops dead, tens of thousands wounded and handicapped, some for the rest of their lives, possibly hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian dead and wounded, and probably over a trillion dollars in debt our great grandchildren will still be paying off.

What exactly does this non-sensical response have to do with Gore and global warming?

Anyone trying equate Gore and his investments in enviromental enerprises to what the Bushwhackos and their buddies have done is going to have to provide more than canned neocon BS to make that point. The vast majority of the world's scientists disagree so you'll have a hell of a time proving your idiotic assertions. Either prove it, or STFU.

I believe my previous response clealy stated your state of delusion. Thank you again for providing more proof of it in the last two paragraphs. Both of which have little to do with Gore and his man made global warming advertising piece. The first sentence of the last paragraph is a doozy. As you have deluded yourself into thinking I am equating anything Gore does with Bush and his cronies.

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
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Originally posted by: Genx87
I believe my previous response clealy stated your state of delusion.
I believe your previous responses are clear evidence of the state of YOUR delusion. :laugh:
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,888
2,788
136
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Genx87
I believe my previous response clealy stated your state of delusion.
I believe your previous responses are clear evidence of the state of YOUR delusion. :laugh:


You should have just said, "I know you are but what am I".
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Genx87
I believe my previous response clealy stated your state of delusion.
I believe your previous responses are clear evidence of the state of YOUR delusion. :laugh:


You should have just said, "I know you are but what am I".

Or wrote me a song.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
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Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Genx87
I believe my previous response clealy stated your state of delusion.
I believe your previous responses are clear evidence of the state of YOUR delusion. :laugh:

You should have just said, "I know you are but what am I".

Or wrote me a song.
I did. :cool:
Who's Watching Over Who's Watching Over You?

Words and Music by Harvey Rubens
Copyright © 2006

Verse 1:

I see men looking over their shoulder,
Running hard just trying to stay alive,
And they say that it's gonna get colder before it gets better.

At the time of the crime, who believed us?
We all took a fall on the ride,
When the powers that be had deceived us to leave us the debtor.

Chorus:

And who's watching over who's watching over you?
Tell me who's telling you what to do what to do?

Verse 2:

All the forces of war were compelling,
And blacker than coal in the night (Colin, the Knight),
And the lies they were telling, they sell in the name of their savior.

And they silence the voices arising,
From those who would show us the light,
With their guys with their spies in the skies watching you and your neighbor.

Chorus:

Verse 3:

I see men who are trying to squeeze us,
And taking whatever they can,
While they buy those who try to appease us with scraps from their table.

It gets harder each day to break even.
This wasn't a part of my plan.
Time is right to be fighting or leaving this tower of Babel.

Chorus:
If you're too reading challenged to follow the lyrics, just click the link in the title. :D
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Blah, blah, Gore this, Gore that, blah, blah....
So what if he is extreme, what harm does it do to err on the side of caution?
Some of you act as if he's leading the country into a harmful war based on Bullsh!t that's going to have a negative impact on our country for at least another generation.

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
67
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Originally posted by: Genx87
That song was written ages ago. I was hoping for something a little newer.
Ages ago??? What part of Copyright © 2006 do you not understand? :confused:

Thanks for proving you're one of those children Bush left behind. Or are you just one of those children kissing Bush's left behind? :laugh:
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,515
585
126
Originally posted by: ericlp
I don't know about you Dave...

I got my order in for a Hummer.. The only vehicle that is not required to report City/Hwy MPG...

Not only that if you ask GM what kind of millage it gets they will tell you they don't even know! Hahaha

Now, you'd think for a vehicle that gets such piss poor MPG would be on america's #1 gas guzzler tax list? Right? Huh, what? It's not? Oh yeah, Trucks and SUVs are exempt! hahaha, Who the hell came up with these rules???

Not only that but if it's over a certain weight you may be able to qualify for a tax brake! YeeeHa!!!!!!! Your gonna need it to afford the gas!

Apparently, Gore has not gone far enough... Some folks are still clueless that the CO2 we are pumping into the atmosphere via Coal, Gas fired power generation, Cars, Trucks, Chainsaws, Lawn Mowers, Air planes, Trains, Ships... etc...etc.... Is not having any effect at all!

Meanwhile ... Let's cut down some more trees to build all those fancy new houses... Seen one tree seen em all right?


You a card carrying member of the ELF?
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
17,967
140
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Originally posted by: brandonbull
Gee, I wonder why Al "Carbon Neutral" Gore would promote and sell a movie about global warming knowing that it is filled with half-truths? Could him being the chairman of a carbon credit company have anything to do with it? Naahhhhh!!! The inventer of the innerweb could never do something like that.

..that's what it's all about. The neolibs are frothing at the mouth to get their co2 tax and emissions credt racket going and are willing to grift any and all with their pick and choose psudo science and voodoo eco-alarmist crap.

 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,515
585
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
According to the Swindle video produced by the right and oil barons we should buy more SUV's and pump as much co2 into the air as possible to help with a cool down to offset the sun doing all the melting.

Maybe its time the scientists take some of the responsibility of whats going on in this world?

Who came up with the medicine that keeps people alive longer? - Scientists
Who came up with the electric motor? - Scientists
Who came up with the gas engine? - Scientists
Who came up with all the chemicals that pollute the earth? - Scientists

Sounds like the scientists owe us a huge apology.
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Scientists find clues to ice cap longevity: study
"Scientists using DNA extracted from ice buried deep below the surface have found evidence that a lush forest once existed in southern Greenland, a finding that sheds light on how climate change affects Earth's frozen areas.

The researchers analyzed ice cores 2-3 km below the surface from several locations in southern Greenland and discovered what they believe to be the oldest authenticated DNA ever recorded."

"In southern Greenland they found a wide range of plant and insect life, including pine, spruce and alder tries along with beetles, flies, spiders, butterflies and moths, from 450,000 to 800,000 years ago.

Scientists had thought the area was last ice-free about 120,000 years ago during the last interglacial but the study showed southern Greenland was still covered in ice at that time.

This suggests the southern Greenland ice sheet is more stable than thought and might not be as big a contributor to sea level rises caused by rising temperatures, Willerslev said.

This does not change the view that climate change is problematic but could force scientists to rethink their models looking at the impact of warming temperatures, he said."

Hmmm...so, once again, MMGW scientists need to rethink their models...isn't that a surprise. I imagine that the model will go out the window after CERN completes their cosmic ray study. Here's some background for those who mistakenly think the science is settled.

Cosmic rays will create clouds at CERN
"Recent satellite data have revealed a surprising correlation between galactic cosmic ray (GCR) intensity and the fraction of the Earth covered by clouds. If this correlation were to be established by a causal mechanism, it could provide a crucial step in understanding the long-sought mechanism connecting solar and climate variability. The Earth's climate seems to be remarkably sensitive to solar activity, but variations of the Sun's electromagnetic radiation appear to be too small to account for the observed climate variability. However, since the GCR intensity is strongly modulated by the solar wind, a GCR-cloud link may provide a sufficient amplifying mechanism. Moreover if this connection were to be confirmed, it could have profound consequences for our understanding of the solar contributions to the current global warming. The CLOUD (Cosmics Leaving OUtdoor Droplets) project proposes to test experimentally the existence a link between cosmic rays and cloud formation, and to understand the microphysical mechanism. CLOUD plans to perform detailed laboratory measurements in a particle beam at CERN, where all the parameters can be precisely controlled and measured. The beam will pass through an expansion cloud chamber and a reactor chamber where the atmosphere is to be duplicated by moist air charged with selected aerosols and trace condensable vapours. An array of external detectors and mass spectrometers is used to analyse the physical and chemical characteristics of the aerosols and trace gases during beam exposure. Where beam effects are found, the experiment will seek to evaluate their significance in the atmosphere by incorporating them into aerosol and cloud models."

Jeff Kanipe describes an experiment that will be performed at CERN in Switzerland and that will fully start in 2010. The experiment will study the formation of clouds in a C.T.R. Wilson's cloud chamber as a function of the intensity of (artificial) cosmic rays sent from the synchrotron into the cloud chamber at different levels of humidity.

What is the purpose of this toy? There seems to be a disagreement between many astrophysicists, nuclear physicists and related scientists on one side and most climate scientists on the other side. The astrophysicists tend to believe that the Solar and galactic cosmic rays are important to determine the cloud formation and therefore the climate on the Earth. The climate scientists usually believe that the main driver of the climate is something completely different.

CLOUD (Cosmics Leaving Outdoor Droplets) have a chance to resolve this question.

Many arguments have appeared in literature that indicate that the cosmic rays matter. Svensmark and Friis-Christensen of Denmark have argued in 1997 that the cloudiness between 1987 and 1990 declined by 3 percent or so, just like the number of cosmic rays reaching the Earth; the original driver of the cosmic rays intensity were the fluctuating sunspots. This argument has been extended to longer periods of time.

Also, Nir Shaviv, who has a blog, and Ján Veizer - a Slovak-Canadian emeritus professor - have argued that the ice ages in the last millions of years may have been correlated with the motion of the Solar system through the galactic arms which caused variations in the cosmic ray flux. The general mechanism is always the same: higher amount of cosmic rays is supposed to create a higher amount of clouds which should cool the Earth."

Summary of CERN CLOUD (Cosmics LeavingOUtdo or Droplets) Experiment
"In 1997 Svensmark and Friis-Christensen [1] announced a surprisingdisco very that global cloud cover correlates closely with the galactic cosmic ray intensity, which varies with the sunspot cycle. Although clouds retain some of the Earth?s warmth, for most types of cloud this is more than compensated by an increased reflective loss of the Sun?s radiation back into space. So more clouds in general mean a cooler climate?and fewer clouds mean global warming. The Earth is partly shielded from cosmic rays by the magnetic disturbances carried by the solar wind. When the solar wind is strong, at the peak of the 11-year sunspot cycle, fewer cosmic rays reach the Earth. The observed variation of cloud cover was only a few per cent over the course of a sunspot cycle. Although this
may appear to be quite small, the possible long-term consequences on the global radiation energy budget are not.

Beyond its semi-periodic 11-year cycle, the Sun displays unexplained behaviour on longer timescales. In particular, the strength of the solar wind and the magnetic flux it carries have more than doubled duringthe last century [2]. The extra shieldinghas reduced the intensity of cosmic rays reachingthe Earth?s atmosphere by about 15%, globally averaged. This reduction of cosmic rays over the last century is independently indicated by the light radioisotope record in the Greenland ice cores. If the link between cosmic rays and clouds is confirmed it implies global cloud cover has decreased during the last century. Simple estimates indicate that the consequent global warming could be comparable to that presently attributed to greenhouse gases from the burning of fossil
fuels.

These observations suggest that solar variability may be linked to climate variability by a chain that involves the solar wind, cosmic rays and clouds."
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: JD50
hhmm...spreading lies and misinformation is not "doing something good"....

You apparently didn't read the whole article:

He clearly has supporters among leading scientists, who commend his popularizations and call his science basically sound. In December, he spoke in San Francisco to the American Geophysical Union and got a reception fit for a rock star from thousands of attendees.

?He has credibility in this community,? said Tim Killeen, the group?s president and director of the National Center for Atmospheric Research, a top group studying climate change. ?There?s no question he?s read a lot and is able to respond in a very effective way.?

Michael Oppenheimer, a professor of geosciences and international affairs at Princeton who advised Mr. Gore on the book and movie, said that reasonable scientists disagreed on the malaria issue and other points that the critics had raised. In general, he said, Mr. Gore had distinguished himself for integrity.

?On balance, he did quite well ? a credible and entertaining job on a difficult subject,? Dr. Oppenheimer said. ?For that, he deserves a lot of credit. If you rake him over the coals, you?re going to find people who disagree. But in terms of the big picture, he got it right.?

You're free to cherry-pick for dissenters. But characterizing what Gore has done as "speading lies and misinformation" is a gross distortion. YOU are the one spreading lies.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,393
8,552
126
i'm calling BS on al gore being a global warming crusader since 1977 as claimed in the article.



as for halliburton, they would have made more money buying government bonds than they did on their iraq contracts, so saying they made money 'hand over fist' is disingenuous at best.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
4,197
101
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It appears the strategy of calling the argument "settled", and dismissing any further debate on MMGW is starting to backfire against the movement. I've noticed a sharp increase in coverage hi-liting dissent on the MMGW front in the past several months, and a recent poll shows a majority believe the issue is over-hyped. It looks like climate change activists have overplayed their hand.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
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Originally posted by: ElFenix
[ ... ]
as for halliburton, they would have made more money buying government bonds than they did on their iraq contracts, so saying they made money 'hand over fist' is disingenuous at best.
I'd like to see your basis for this claim. My guess is that your source was either misled by Halliburton's creative bookkeeping, or perhaps is even complicit in painting a picture that understates Halliburton's profits.

I can only speculate since I've not seen your source, but cost-plus contracts have a huge loophole, especially if there is lax oversight. In typical contracts of this scope, the contracted company bills for its "actual" costs plus a fixed margin. Its "actual" costs, however, can be inflated in two ways. First, the contracted company subcontracts most of its work to its own subsidiaries or sister companies. They are free to charge highly-inflated prices to the parent. In many cases, multiple subsidiaries can get in on the same line item, for example 10,000 sheets of plywood purchased from a construction subsidiary, stored by a warehousing subsidiary, transported by a shipping subisdiary, and maybe even purchased from a timber subsidiary. Each of those subsidiaries can often charge inflated prices, which then get passed to the governement as the original contracting company's "actual" cost.

The other scam is inflating overhead expenses by misallocating shared resource costs. For example, the originally contracted company can claim it is using 50% of its XYZ facility to service the government contract, when in reality its only 30%. It can use the same trick with staff. When you have corporate staff like managers, accountants, clerks, IT people, etc. splitting their time among multiple contracts, how do you verify their time is being accurately allocated to each customer or contract? It can be done, if the customers enforce strict oversight. That's not been one of Uncle Sugardaddy's strengths, however.

These techniques are reportedly used widely by Hollywood to ensure that artists and writers who negotiate a share of the "profits" never see a dime. Even blockbuster movies and albums mysteriously never show a profit ... because the studios charge themselves highly inflated prices for studio costs, processing, promotions, storage, etc., etc., as nauseum. Yet even though none of their indiviudal projects seem to make money, the studios themselves do very well. Similarly, while Halliburton may be able to "prove" they make a pittance on their Iraq contract, I suspect you'll find the company as a whole is doing quite well thanks to great profits in some of its subsidiaries.

 

ScottMac

Moderator<br>Networking<br>Elite member
Mar 19, 2001
5,471
2
0
People just completely ignore the simplest and least expensive methods for correcting MMGW, caused by greenhouse gasses trapping the sun's energy.

All we have to do is remove the soot traps on the industrial stacks, push some soot/particulates back into the air, and REFLECT some of that heat. We juat have to get the right soot/CO2 balance. Should be easy enough for yer basic mathmatical & environmental types.

:laugh:

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,393
8,552
126
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: ElFenix
[ ... ]
as for halliburton, they would have made more money buying government bonds than they did on their iraq contracts, so saying they made money 'hand over fist' is disingenuous at best.
I'd like to see your basis for this claim. My guess is that your source was either misled by Halliburton's creative bookkeeping, or perhaps is even complicit in painting a picture that understates Halliburton's profits.

I can only speculate since I've not seen your source, but cost-plus contracts have a huge loophole, especially if there is lax oversight. In typical contracts of this scope, the contracted company bills for its "actual" costs plus a fixed margin. Its "actual" costs, however, can be inflated in two ways. First, the contracted company subcontracts most of its work to its own subsidiaries or sister companies. They are free to charge highly-inflated prices to the parent. In many cases, multiple subsidiaries can get in on the same line item, for example 10,000 sheets of plywood purchased from a construction subsidiary, stored by a warehousing subsidiary, transported by a shipping subisdiary, and maybe even purchased from a timber subsidiary. Each of those subsidiaries can often charge inflated prices, which then get passed to the governement as the original contracting company's "actual" cost.

The other scam is inflating overhead expenses by misallocating shared resource costs. For example, the originally contracted company can claim it is using 50% of its XYZ facility to service the government contract, when in reality its only 30%. It can use the same trick with staff. When you have corporate staff like managers, accountants, clerks, IT people, etc. splitting their time among multiple contracts, how do you verify their time is being accurately allocated to each customer or contract? It can be done, if the customers enforce strict oversight. That's not been one of Uncle Sugardaddy's strengths, however.

These techniques are reportedly used widely by Hollywood to ensure that artists and writers who negotiate a share of the "profits" never see a dime. Even blockbuster movies and albums mysteriously never show a profit ... because the studios charge themselves highly inflated prices for studio costs, processing, promotions, storage, etc., etc., as nauseum. Yet even though none of their indiviudal projects seem to make money, the studios themselves do very well. Similarly, while Halliburton may be able to "prove" they make a pittance on their Iraq contract, I suspect you'll find the company as a whole is doing quite well thanks to great profits in some of its subsidiaries.

well, yes, there is always fraud.


my source

if you read some of his other columns, he seems pretty critical of halliburton, the defense contract scheme, and big business in general.


not to mention that halliburton got tired of all the crap, so sold the sub that was doing the contracting.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
126
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
You know what's interesting? I could bold every other line of the OP's article and it would show that Gore got the science fundamentally correct.

yes you could!!
Which means gore got the science correct...doesn`t mean that what Gore says is happenning is the truth......
sad huh? Gore`s been telling 1/2 truths all this time!!