Scientific study of Psilocybin Mushroms (aka "magic mushrooms") shows it gives humans life changing mystical experiences

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: sixone
From the article in the OP:

The study, which involved 36 middle-aged adults from the Baltimore-Washington area, was conducted over five years. The subjects were chosen from 135 people who answered newspaper ads. All said they were members of a religious organization, practiced meditation or took part in other spiritual activity.

These folks were predisposed towards "mystical experiences."

And anyone who thinks it was a drug that changed their life is a damn liar. You can use it as a motivation, but YOU change your own life. Or you don't.

These people are the only ones qualified to describe "mystical experiences."

I'm an atheist (if you must label me), and the one time I eat a few shrooms with some friends was definitely what you would call a mystical experience. It didnt drastically change my life in a tangible way, but it did change my perspective in some ways. It was an absolutely wonderful experience. I'd easily put it in my top 5.

We were in a small island forest of bamboo, within a larger temperate forest, after a blizzard. Words could barely describe the beauty of the scene. The contrast between the rich green bamboo, blindingly bright snow and dark, lifeless trees surrounding us was probably the single most memorable visual experience I've seen. I was one with nature, and during several points on that trip, I felt like I truely understood how everything - physical and mental all intertwined and came from the same place. I understood it logically, scientifically and spiritually at the same time, and there was no contradiction. The reason people sound like madmen when they describe such experiences is that the words could not come close to reflecting the actual experience. Having good friends to enjoy the experience with was all the better.

Although there were even a few people present that I had open emnity with. Before that day, I hated their guts, and had a mind to break bottles over the head of one or two of them. But something about those shrooms changed something, and we were able to put aside the hatred and share the moment together. We both came to this similar realization about our psyches, and in doing so managed to trade our hate for empathy and understanding.

Once the high wore off, I couldnt forget the reasons why I disliked them so much, and they remained far from friends, but there was no longer open hatred.

That being said, if there was any fear or anxiety during my trip that day, it was that I'd never be able to see things as I previously did ever again, and that was quite troubling at the time.

In the end, half of it was a psychadelic trip that wore off, but the other half, things I consciously realized and articulated during the trip have definitely stayed with me.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: Atheus
I once talked to a man who lived in a tree, and by in a tree, I mean _in_ a tree - a green face made of leaves and bark emerged from it's trunk.

That's probably the most profound hallucination I've had, but it wasn't on shrooms, it was another hallucinogenic.

Did you steal his lucky charms?

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Chiboy
Shrooms dont work on me, I've taken qtrs & qtrs... Nothing happens, & I know the ****** was good when my friends seen cows & the devil & I got nothing.

Quarters? Wow, I start flipping out if I even take an eighth.

 

[GregGreen]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Tom
"psilocybin occasioned experiences similar to spontaneously occurring mystical experiences."

so, if these "mystical experiences" can occur spontaneously, the study can't establish any causal relationship with the drug, can they ?

but my point is, a "mystical experience" is not an observable condition, or at least the method of observation isn't described. So the conclusion is hardly scientific.

It's equivalent to saying people think diagonal lines are quirky. It doesn't mean anything of a scientific nature has been discovered.

Many other "experiences" with similarly amophous definations are considered observable by social scientists. To really attack this study you need to widen your target to the survey method.

i doubt it, but feel free to show me one. if its equally silly, it will be entertaining.

btw, what about my point about spontaneous occurrences ?

How do you define elation?

As for the potential for "spontaneous" occurances, most mystical experiences occur when a subject is participating in some kind liturgical, meditative, or other practice, and not some spontaneous event. But any neuroscientist will tell you that a "spontaneous" mystical event is only "spontaneous" because we didn't observe the causal events in the subject's brain that preceded the experience.

So what ? That doesn't mean we can assume the mushrooms were causal, since we can't exclude the other, unknown causes, for the "mystical experience", even if we assume for a moment a "mystical experience" is some sort of common experience that means roughly the same thing to all people. Which in my opinion no such commonality exists, some people think ghosts are mystical, I think the path of a snowflake is.

Elation in comparison is easily observed. It doesn't rely completely on the subject's self-interpretation of whatever phenomena is occurring, or not occurring, in their psyche. You can observe elation in a person's face, or their actions. It wouldn't be 100% accurate, but it would have some meaning across a population.

I'm willing to bet that this is accounted for in the actual research. I tried to find it, but EBSCOhost only had the abstract. This research was in a peer-reviewed journal -- it is not some bullshit by some stoners.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: Chiboy
Shrooms dont work on me, I've taken qtrs & qtrs... Nothing happens, & I know the ****** was good when my friends seen cows & the devil & I got nothing.

Quarters? Wow, I start flipping out if I even take an eighth.

I'm a cheap shroom too. A cap or a stem would tie my cerebral cortex into a knot these days. I had to put that all behind me! Gettin' old!

 

[sandorski]

It's no coincidence that the Drug Culture uses terms like "Mind Expansion" and "Tune in" etc. Like others stated, certain Drugs open your Mind to Ideas and Perceptions that you normally wouldn't consider. Gotta be careful about being too enthusiastic about it though, overuse of any Drug eventually will harm you in one way or another. Occassional or Experimental use is generally safe(for non-Addictive Drugs).

edit: clarity

 

[Yossarian451]

The interesting thing I noticed is that even after the experience. the next next I was a happier more mellow person. I found being even nicer to people around me, and also I would not get irritated over most things.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Tom
"psilocybin occasioned experiences similar to spontaneously occurring mystical experiences."

so, if these "mystical experiences" can occur spontaneously, the study can't establish any causal relationship with the drug, can they ?

but my point is, a "mystical experience" is not an observable condition, or at least the method of observation isn't described. So the conclusion is hardly scientific.

It's equivalent to saying people think diagonal lines are quirky. It doesn't mean anything of a scientific nature has been discovered.

Many other "experiences" with similarly amophous definations are considered observable by social scientists. To really attack this study you need to widen your target to the survey method.

i doubt it, but feel free to show me one. if its equally silly, it will be entertaining.

btw, what about my point about spontaneous occurrences ?

How do you define elation?

As for the potential for "spontaneous" occurances, most mystical experiences occur when a subject is participating in some kind liturgical, meditative, or other practice, and not some spontaneous event. But any neuroscientist will tell you that a "spontaneous" mystical event is only "spontaneous" because we didn't observe the causal events in the subject's brain that preceded the experience.

So what ? That doesn't mean we can assume the mushrooms were causal, since we can't exclude the other, unknown causes, for the "mystical experience", even if we assume for a moment a "mystical experience" is some sort of common experience that means roughly the same thing to all people. Which in my opinion no such commonality exists, some people think ghosts are mystical, I think the path of a snowflake is.

Elation in comparison is easily observed. It doesn't rely completely on the subject's self-interpretation of whatever phenomena is occurring, or not occurring, in their psyche. You can observe elation in a person's face, or their actions. It wouldn't be 100% accurate, but it would have some meaning across a population.

The fact remains that the experience of elation would be recorded by a peer reviewed study by either an interviewer's question or a question on a survey.

 

[Tom]

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Tom

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Tom
"psilocybin occasioned experiences similar to spontaneously occurring mystical experiences."

so, if these "mystical experiences" can occur spontaneously, the study can't establish any causal relationship with the drug, can they ?

but my point is, a "mystical experience" is not an observable condition, or at least the method of observation isn't described. So the conclusion is hardly scientific.

It's equivalent to saying people think diagonal lines are quirky. It doesn't mean anything of a scientific nature has been discovered.

Many other "experiences" with similarly amophous definations are considered observable by social scientists. To really attack this study you need to widen your target to the survey method.

i doubt it, but feel free to show me one. if its equally silly, it will be entertaining.

btw, what about my point about spontaneous occurrences ?

How do you define elation?

As for the potential for "spontaneous" occurances, most mystical experiences occur when a subject is participating in some kind liturgical, meditative, or other practice, and not some spontaneous event. But any neuroscientist will tell you that a "spontaneous" mystical event is only "spontaneous" because we didn't observe the causal events in the subject's brain that preceded the experience.

So what ? That doesn't mean we can assume the mushrooms were causal, since we can't exclude the other, unknown causes, for the "mystical experience", even if we assume for a moment a "mystical experience" is some sort of common experience that means roughly the same thing to all people. Which in my opinion no such commonality exists, some people think ghosts are mystical, I think the path of a snowflake is.

Elation in comparison is easily observed. It doesn't rely completely on the subject's self-interpretation of whatever phenomena is occurring, or not occurring, in their psyche. You can observe elation in a person's face, or their actions. It wouldn't be 100% accurate, but it would have some meaning across a population.

The fact remains that the experience of elation would be recorded by a peer reviewed study by either an interviewer's question or a question on a survey.

I think you miss my point. I don't have a problem with the method, I have a problem with using "mystical experience" as some sort of definable phenomena that then can be associated with the drug. If they said people reported having hallucinations that would have some meaning. If they reported heightened awareness, that could be measured.

 

[BoomerD]

Native cultures have known all this for thousands of years, and the researchers are just now figuring it out?