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Science proves that vote fraud is real!

Votingisanillusion

Senior member
US Count Votes has come out with a remarkable paper authored by a committee of twelve, most of them highly-qualified mathematicians and statisticians from major universities. This study highlights the serious ramifications of the exit poll discrepancy while demolishing the "chatty Dem" theory (more properly known as the "reluctant responder" theory), which remains the official explanation for that incongruity. The only possibility left is vote alteration.

Full analysis (pdf):
http://uscountvotes.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Exit_Polls_2004_Edison-Mitofsky.pdf
Summary (pdf):
http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Exit_Polls_summary.pdf
Article:
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=5667

And if you?d like an ultra-brief summary of the summary:

The exit poll discrepancy in the 2004 American presidential election was the largest in the poll?s history -- about five-and-a-half percent. The odds against the polls being so wrong are roughly one in a million. The "chatty Dem" theory is nonsense: Responses to the pollsters were higher in Republican strongholds -- where the exit poll discrepancies were widest.

On November 2, 2004, pollsters did not restrict inquiries to the votes cast on that date. They also asked voters about the 2000 election. 43% of the respondents said they had chosen Bush on that previous occasion, while 37% reported having cast a ballot for Al Gore.
But Gore WON the popular vote. This simple fact -- which even math illiterates should be able to comprehend easily -- proves that the exit pollsters favored Republicans, not Democrats.

You may be interested by this (pages 8-11):

The "Reluctant Bush Responder (rBr) hypothesis

The Edison/Mitofsky report, however, explains the "within precinct error (WPE)" (Randomly select and interview voters from those precincts for polling as they leave the polling place) with the following statement (p. 31): While we cannot measure the response rate by Kerry and Bush voters, hypothetical response rates of 56% among Kerry voters and 50% among Bush voters overall would account for the entire Within Precinct Error that we observed in 2004. This, apparently, is the basis for their statement in the Executive Summary (p. 4), It is difficult to pinpoint precisely the reasons that, in general, Kerry voters were more likely to participate in the exit polls than Bush voters. No data in the E/M report supports the hypothesis that Kerry voters were more likely than Bush voters to cooperate with pollsters and, in fact, the data provided by E/M suggests that the opposite may have been true.

Table 1 follows, which is provided in the Edison/Mitofsky report.

The reluctant Bush responder hypothesis would lead one to expect a higher non-response rate where there are many more Bush voters, yet Edison/Mitofsky s data shows that, in fact, the response rate is slightly higher in precincts where Bush drew "80% of the vote (High Rep) than in those where Kerry drew "80% of the vote (High Dem).


Reluctant Bush Responder in Mixed Political Company (rBrmpc) hypothesis

Yet it is not conclusive proof that the E/M hypothesis is wrong, because some have hypothesized that Bush supporters were more diffident about expressing their views in mixed political company than Kerry supporters. It has been suggested that the Bush supporters participated at high rates in precincts where they were surrounded by other Bush supporters, while Bush supporters in predominantly- Democratic precincts were more reticent than their counterpart Kerry supporters voting in predominantly Bush precincts. This reluctant Bush exit poll participant in predominantly Democratic precincts" hypothesis is also inconsistent with the E/M data. If the polls were faulty because Bush voters were shy in the presence of Kerry voters and less likely to cooperate with pollsters, then the polls should be most accurate in those precincts where Bush voters were in the overwhelming majority and where exit poll participation was also at its maximum.


Alternate hypothesis: Bush Strongholds have more Vote-Count Corruption (Bsvcc)

An alternative hypothesis that is more consistent with the data is that corruption of the official vote count occurred most freely in districts that were overwhelmingly Bush strongholds. If Edison/Mitofsky would release the detailed results of their poll to the public then much more could be said about this hypothesis, and the suspicious precincts could be identified. If E/M does not release its list of sampled precincts, US Count Votes believes it will still be possible to rigorously test the hypothesis that the vote counts were corrupted by assembling and analyzing a precinct-level nationwide database containing detailed election results, voting equipment information and demographic data. Higher exit poll response rates and higher exit poll discrepancies occurred in Bush strongholds. E/M s own data contradict both the rBr and the rBrmpc hypotheses and support the Bsvcc hypothesis.
 
The main stream media will never cover this. It will be bad for business if the sheeple realize their votes do not matter.
 
Well, I think this was the year for the MSM to cover it, if any. So any self-respecting leftist should recognize they will never win an election again. Time to suck on a .45 or move to Belgium, asta la vista!
 
You know, until the left gets over their whining, they will never win another election. They are so upset that it's becoming more and more difficult to steal elections, they are just beside themselves. I can only pray they are still talking about this next election cycle.

When I first saw the exit polls, and saw that that the sample was skewed so heavily towards women (I believe it was 59%-41% F-M), and Kerry was only "ahead" by a few percentage points, I knew (as did most rational observers) he was toast. The left needs some serious therapy...
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Well, I think this was the year for the MSM to cover it, if any. So any self-respecting leftist should recognize they will never win an election again. Time to suck on a .45 or move to Belgium, asta la vista!

What part of that wasn't a troll?
 
Originally posted by: Hurricane Andrew
You know, until the left gets over their whining, they will never win another election. They are so upset that it's becoming more and more difficult to steal elections, they are just beside themselves. I can only pray they are still talking about this next election cycle.

When I first saw the exit polls, and saw that that the sample was skewed so heavily towards women (I believe it was 59%-41% F-M), and Kerry was only "ahead" by a few percentage points, I knew (as did most rational observers) he was toast. The left needs some serious therapy...

<< On November 2, 2004, pollsters did not restrict inquiries to the votes cast on that date. They also asked voters about the 2000 election. 43% of the respondents said they had chosen Bush on that previous occasion, while 37% reported having cast a ballot for Al Gore.
But Gore WON the popular vote. This simple fact -- which even math illiterates should be able to comprehend easily -- proves that the exit pollsters favored Republicans, not Democrats. >>

You are not even a math illiterate. You are a math idiot.
 
Nice shot, Hurricane Andrew, particularly considering that stealing an election is now theoretically easier, due to unverifiable proprietary software electronic voting machines... failure to provide sufficient machines in selected precincts causing huge and unendurable lines... various schemes to limit voter registration... the list goes on. No potential voter who actually works for a living can afford to stand in line for several hours on a weekday...

Not that I'm claiming the recent election was stolen, at all, but that we need to do whatever is necessary to remove the appearance of impropriety or of bias in the electoral process, thus restoring confidence wrt the results.

As has been vividly illustrated, the security of the Diebold system is laughable, not to mention the inherent possibilities of built-in fraud in proprietary software models leaving no paper trail...

As for the "Left", there is no "Left" in American politics... just the Right Fringe, way out there, and everybody else.... largely Centrist from an international perspective.

I'm beginning to think that some are willing to win by any means, particularly on the far Right. If they have the much touted Faith in their ideas, then they'll welcome an electoral process that is inclusive, transparent, inherently honest- which hasn't been the case, at all...

I'm also beginning to think that the Oregon system of Mail-in ballots combined with optical scanners run on open source software may be the only way to insure honest results...
 
"As for the "Left", there is no "Left" in American politics... just the Right Fringe, way out there, and everybody else.... largely Centrist from an international perspective."

There is more to the world then Western Europe. Just because France doesn't have a right doesn't mean there isn't a left here. Universal health care is not a centrist issue. Wanting to increase the tax on the rich by a lot isn't centrist. Giving people a living wage when they aren't working isn't centrist. You need to adjust your scale.
 
I think it is funny the left cried about getting rid of the outdated punch cards in 2000 because their voters were too stupid to use them. Now they cry about the electronic machines they were replaced with.

What will they cry about in 08 when they lose again?
 
Originally posted by: Votingisanillusion
Originally posted by: Hurricane Andrew
You know, until the left gets over their whining, they will never win another election. They are so upset that it's becoming more and more difficult to steal elections, they are just beside themselves. I can only pray they are still talking about this next election cycle.

When I first saw the exit polls, and saw that that the sample was skewed so heavily towards women (I believe it was 59%-41% F-M), and Kerry was only "ahead" by a few percentage points, I knew (as did most rational observers) he was toast. The left needs some serious therapy...

<< On November 2, 2004, pollsters did not restrict inquiries to the votes cast on that date. They also asked voters about the 2000 election. 43% of the respondents said they had chosen Bush on that previous occasion, while 37% reported having cast a ballot for Al Gore.
But Gore WON the popular vote. This simple fact -- which even math illiterates should be able to comprehend easily -- proves that the exit pollsters favored Republicans, not Democrats. >>

You are not even a math illiterate. You are a math idiot.

:roll: How juvenile...

I could point out that the percentages you provided only total 80%, or point out that by your own figures 57% of the respondents did not vote for Bush in the previous election. Remember all of those new "angry young voters" the Dems were hoping to get to the polls? I'd be willing to wager they make up quite a bit of that remaining 20%. But then you knew all that and just choose to ignore it since it did not support your argument right?

By the way, I always thought that actual votes were what decided an election, not exit polls, and especially exit polls that do not even cover the entire voting day since it is a well established fact that different groups tend to vote at different times of the day. But please, continue with the conspiracy theories. They served you so well the last election cycle. As long as the Deomocrats keep ignoring and insulting the "Red States", and trying to cram their secular agenda down the throats of an overwhelmingly Christian nation, they will continue to struggle in national elections. That is their problem. The longer they deny it, the more long term damage they will do to their party.
 
Originally posted by: Hurricane Andrew
Originally posted by: Votingisanillusion
Originally posted by: Hurricane Andrew
You know, until the left gets over their whining, they will never win another election. They are so upset that it's becoming more and more difficult to steal elections, they are just beside themselves. I can only pray they are still talking about this next election cycle.

When I first saw the exit polls, and saw that that the sample was skewed so heavily towards women (I believe it was 59%-41% F-M), and Kerry was only "ahead" by a few percentage points, I knew (as did most rational observers) he was toast. The left needs some serious therapy...

<< On November 2, 2004, pollsters did not restrict inquiries to the votes cast on that date. They also asked voters about the 2000 election. 43% of the respondents said they had chosen Bush on that previous occasion, while 37% reported having cast a ballot for Al Gore.
But Gore WON the popular vote. This simple fact -- which even math illiterates should be able to comprehend easily -- proves that the exit pollsters favored Republicans, not Democrats. >>

You are not even a math illiterate. You are a math idiot.

:roll: How juvenile...

I could point out that the percentages you provided only total 80%, or point out that by your own figures 57% of the respondents did not vote for Bush in the previous election. Remember all of those new "angry young voters" the Dems were hoping to get to the polls? I'd be willing to wager they make up quite a bit of that remaining 20%. But then you knew all that and just choose to ignore it since it did not support your argument right?

By the way, I always thought that actual votes were what decided an election, not exit polls, and especially exit polls that do not even cover the entire voting day since it is a well established fact that different groups tend to vote at different times of the day. But please, continue with the conspiracy theories. They served you so well the last election cycle. As long as the Deomocrats keep ignoring and insulting the "Red States", and trying to cram their secular agenda down the throats of an overwhelmingly Christian nation, they will continue to struggle in national elections. That is their problem. The longer they deny it, the more long term damage they will do to their party.

So, did my vote count? Prove it.
 
They're still using good old-fashioned methods of vote fraud to steal elections as well.

Fourth man indicted in Republican phone-jamming scheme

Fourth man charged in phone jamming
By JOHN DiSTASO
Senior Political Reporter

As the state Democrats and Republicans parties continue a court battle over a Republican conspiracy to jam opposition telephones on Election Day 2002, a fourth man has been criminally charged in the incident.

Shaun Hansen of Spokane, Wash., headed the former Mylo Enterprises of Sandpoint, Idaho, which was hired by Republican operatives to jam get-out-the-vote telephone lines at five state Democratic party offices and the Manchester Professional Fire Fighters Association office.

Hansen has been charged by federal authorities with violating a federal law forbidding anonymous calls ?with intent to annoy and harass any person at the called number or who received the communications.?

Hansen has yet to enter a plea and is scheduled to appear in court on May 9, according to records of the U.S. District Court in Concord.

Hansen became the latest to be charged. Former state Republican executive director Charles McGee and Virginia-based GOP consultant Allen Raymond both pleaded guilty and have been sentenced to seven and five months in prison, respectively. James Tobin of Maine, a former regional director of the National Republican Senatorial Campaign Committee, has pleaded not guilty and is scheduled to stand trial in June.

Federal prosecutors say McGee thought of the plan and, at Tobin?s suggestion, contacted Raymond to ask about vendors who would carry out the telephone jam. The state GOP paid Raymond $15,600 for the operation.

Raymond, they allege, contacted Hansen?s Mylo Enterprises, a now-defunct telemarketer, to make the hang-up calls to the Democratic and union offices.

Hansen could not be reached for comment Friday. But he told an Idaho newspaper last summer that his business received $2,500 from Raymond?s firm, GOP Marketing, to make the repeated calls. Hansen also reportedly said a corporate attorney told him the job was legal.

Democrats want to know who else may have had advance knowledge of the scheme. They filed a civil suit against the state GOP in Hillsborough County Superior Court last summer in an effort to find out and, separately, to seek compensatory damages from the Republican Party.

Friday, before Judge Philip Mangones, the two sides continued to argue over what pre-trial information the Republicans should produce, and when. The judge took the arguments under advisement.

The federal prosecutor overseeing the criminal case asked the judge to continue a stay imposed last fall on the Democrats? discovery process until after Tobin?s trial, concerned it could prejudice the prosecution. State GOP attorney Ovide Lamontagne agreed.

The Democrats agreed that ?there should be no discovery to harm or interfere with the federal government?s case against Tobin,? state party chairman Kathy Sullivan said after the hearing. ?But there are still pending procedural issues regarding what the judge had allowed in terms of discovery last November and December.?

She said the judge has yet to act on contempt motions filed by the Democrats charging that the Republicans had not complied with the judge?s order for answers to 20 questions, or interrogatories.

Mangones will consider the pending motions and determine if a further hearing should be held on them.

Sullivan said the Democrats are concerned because they believe that a statute of limitations will expire in November on any further criminal charges in the federal probe.

?Our concern is that time will pass and there will not be enough time for discovery to ascertain whether any others were involved.? She said other defendants may be added to the suit later.

McGee has said that former GOP chair John Dowd authorized the phone jam operation. Dowd has countered that while McGee informed him of the operation, he did not authorize it and, after consulting with legal counsel, put a stop to it.

As a result, an operation that was planned to last throughout election day was ended after 85 minutes.

A key election in 2002 was a U.S. Senate race between Republican John E. Sununu, who won, and Democratic former Gov. Jeanne Shaheen.

Tobin was involved in helping Sununu?s effort through the Republican senatorial committee. Democrats have also asked what, if anything, former senatorial committee chairman Sen. Bill Frist, who was Tobin?s boss at the time, may have known about the operation. Frist, who is now the Senate Majority Leader and a possible 2008 Presidential candidate, has denied any knowledge of it.

Sullivan said the Democrats are seeking monetary damages because the party invested in equipment, telephone lines, a voter file and computers to be used for the get-out-the-vote effort.

She said it does not matter if the phone jam changed the outcome of an election or even prevented people from voting. But she said that if the case goes to trial, witnesses will testify that they had been told by would-be voters that they were unable to get to the polls.

Lamontagne called the Democrats? claim ?baseless.?

He said, ?There is no evidence to suggest that the party authorized this and supported this. Chuck McGee took steps to hide this from the party and acted on his own.

?I think the Democrats know the Republican Party is not responsible (for the phone-jamming). But they are using the courts to harass and annoy the Republican Party, which is why we filed an abuse of process claim,? Lamontagne said.

 
Originally posted by: Genx87
I think it is funny the left cried about getting rid of the outdated punch cards in 2000 because their voters were too stupid to use them. Now they cry about the electronic machines they were replaced with.

What will they cry about in 08 when they lose again?

To be fair, the Florida election was a debacle and it favored Bush from the start.

Most counts reveal that Gore DID win Florida since he did receive the most votes. Many people had trouble with the punch card machines and therefore the vote is really anyones guess.

The 5 justices who were for State's rights got in and undermined the state of Florida. They wanted Bush to win and he did. Back then I was a Al Gore supporter. I still remember when NBC announced Florida went to Gore. And guess what? It did.

The recount was a mess and they had to determine the intent of the voter. The problem was that there was a struggle for power between the Florida Court and the Supreme Court and there wasn't a clear standard. There was a huge argument over what was a legal vote and what wasn't.

I believe the punchcard systems were in mostly Democrat counties and some of the votes of the Democrats were eventually thrown away. Many of those were African American votes who were disenfranchised.

I still believe Gore won Florida and is therefore the President. But I'll keep telling myself that he forgot to show up at the inauguration and Bush was chosen instead. 😀
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Most counts reveal that Gore DID win Florida since he did receive the most votes. Many people had trouble with the punch card machines and therefore the vote is really anyones guess

Ehh??? Even the Miami herald with their recount and still had Bush winning.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/2071226.htm

Oh boy, here we go again. You drag out your links and I'll drag out mine.

The fact is the U.S. Supreme Court stopped the vote count. No one will ever know who won Florida in 2000 because the votes were never counted. And that's not even considering the purging voter roles and voter intimidation on election day -- all of which targeted Democratic districts.

If the Republicans wanted to prove they won why didn't they just let Florida count the votes? The rules were already in place for a recount prior to the election. Why didn't the Republicans allow the election to be held according to the laws of the state of Florida?

 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Most counts reveal that Gore DID win Florida since he did receive the most votes. Many people had trouble with the punch card machines and therefore the vote is really anyones guess

Ehh??? Even the Miami herald with their recount still had Bush winning.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/2071226.htm

I recall someone gloating a couple of years ago that 'the only recount scheme under which Gore appears to have won Florida is one in which all the votes cast actually counted'. Rather an interesting 'brag' if you ask me.
 
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Genx87
Most counts reveal that Gore DID win Florida since he did receive the most votes. Many people had trouble with the punch card machines and therefore the vote is really anyones guess

Ehh??? Even the Miami herald with their recount still had Bush winning.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/2071226.htm

I recall someone gloating a couple of years ago that 'the only recount scheme under which Gore appears to have won Florida is one in which all the votes cast actually counted'. Rather an interesting 'brag' if you ask me.

Republican idea of democracy:

"We're ahead. Stop counting."

 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie
Originally posted by: Genx87
Most counts reveal that Gore DID win Florida since he did receive the most votes. Many people had trouble with the punch card machines and therefore the vote is really anyones guess

Ehh??? Even the Miami herald with their recount still had Bush winning.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/2071226.htm

I recall someone gloating a couple of years ago that 'the only recount scheme under which Gore appears to have won Florida is one in which all the votes cast actually counted'. Rather an interesting 'brag' if you ask me.

Republican idea of democracy:

"We're ahead. Stop counting."


How about apply the recount fairly across the state. No cherry picking allowed.
 
Originally posted by: Jhhnn

As for the "Left", there is no "Left" in American politics... just the Right Fringe, way out there, and everybody else.... largely Centrist from an international perspective.
:laugh:

There is a left. It's the Moveon.org crowd and the MSM, which are ever insistent on pulling the Democrats further and further left; a direction which the Dems are blindly going.

And "centrist from an international perspective?" Whew. Last time I checked, socialism was considered left, and that accounts for much of Europe (at least Western Europe), Central America, South America and Canada. Let's not forget the Chi-Coms and N. Korea. Russia, and many of her former captive nations, though certainly further right than they used to be is still a left leaning country with a large amount of government control. Even our friends the British are a left-leaning society, with socialized healthcare and the like. When Mitterand swept into power in 1981 in France, large portions of their economy were nationalized and the 35 hour workweek was intorduced "at no loss of pay" for the employees. They sure wouldn't want to encourage hard work and success, that would be "too American" for the haughty French. To their credit, they did recently repeal the 35 hour provision. Then again, with the shape of their economy (which is on a par with Germany's), they didn't have much choice. Germany's had their own issues with a large socialist movement. As a result, they reported as recently as last week that the unemployment rate hit a post-war high of 12% (compared to 5% in the US).

So to say much of the world is "centrist" or that the majority of US Citizens identify with those types of policies (remember Hillary's Socialized Health Care debacle?) is laughable.



 
Originally posted by: Genx87
I think it is funny the left cried about getting rid of the outdated punch cards in 2000 because their voters were too stupid to use them. Now they cry about the electronic machines they were replaced with.

What will they cry about in 08 when they lose again?


I'm not whining, and I don't think there was fraud in this election enough to swing it (if there was any at all), but would it hurt to have paper print outs of electronic ballots so that we can at least have a recount if necessary?

Some trees would be lost, but so much peace of mind!
 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: Genx87
Most counts reveal that Gore DID win Florida since he did receive the most votes. Many people had trouble with the punch card machines and therefore the vote is really anyones guess

Ehh??? Even the Miami herald with their recount and still had Bush winning.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/news/2071226.htm

Oh boy, here we go again. You drag out your links and I'll drag out mine.

The fact is the U.S. Supreme Court stopped the vote count. No one will ever know who won Florida in 2000 because the votes were never counted. And that's not even considering the purging voter roles and voter intimidation on election day -- all of which targeted Democratic districts.

If the Republicans wanted to prove they won why didn't they just let Florida count the votes? The rules were already in place for a recount prior to the election. Why didn't the Republicans allow the election to be held according to the laws of the state of Florida?


If the miami herald which is a pretty left leaning newspaper cant come up with the conclusion you want. I suggest maybe your conclusion is wrong.

Fine by me. But obviously not for the Republicans.

Whaaa?

In fact, a comprehensive review of 64,248 ballots in all 67 Florida counties by The Herald and its parent company, Knight Ridder, in partnership with USA Today, found that Bush's slender margin of 537 votes would have tripled to 1,665 votes under the generous counting standards advocated by Democrat Al Gore.



How many counties are in Florida btw?


 
Originally posted by: Hurricane Andrew
Originally posted by: Jhhnn

As for the "Left", there is no "Left" in American politics... just the Right Fringe, way out there, and everybody else.... largely Centrist from an international perspective.
:laugh:

There is a left. It's the Moveon.org crowd and the MSM, which are ever insistent on pulling the Democrats further and further left; a direction which the Dems are blindly going.

And "centrist from an international perspective?" Whew. Last time I checked, socialism was considered left, and that accounts for much of Europe (at least Western Europe), Central America, South America and Canada. Let's not forget the Chi-Coms and N. Korea. Russia, and many of her former captive nations, though certainly further right than they used to be is still a left leaning country with a large amount of government control. Even our friends the British are a left-leaning society, with socialized healthcare and the like. When Mitterand swept into power in 1981 in France, large portions of their economy were nationalized and the 35 hour workweek was intorduced "at no loss of pay" for the employees. They sure wouldn't want to encourage hard work and success, that would be "too American" for the haughty French. To their credit, they did recently repeal the 35 hour provision. Then again, with the shape of their economy (which is on a par with Germany's), they didn't have much choice. Germany's had their own issues with a large socialist movement. As a result, they reported as recently as last week that the unemployment rate hit a post-war high of 12% (compared to 5% in the US).

So to say much of the world is "centrist" or that the majority of US Citizens identify with those types of policies (remember Hillary's Socialized Health Care debacle?) is laughable.

this is one of the most asinine things i have ever read here. Congratulations.
 
Even Kindasleazy Rice is complaining about the elections:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/...TE=SCCOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
She called on the government to abandon policies designed to "repress, crush and otherwise stifle expressions of differences."

[...]

She estimated that more than 10 percent of would-be voters were turned away from polling stations due to irregularities with voter registration rolls.

The percentage was higher, she said, in hotly contested constituencies.

[...]

While noting that the campaign and the election were generally peaceful, Rice said the electoral playing field was "heavily tilted in the government's favor.

"The independent press was muzzled; freedom of assembly was constrained; food was used as a weapon to sway hungry voters;



Oh wait...she was talking about Zimbabwe.....my bad.
 
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