Schroeder's party uses dead American soldiers as marketing

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: Genx87
But but but the people in America are the sheeps.

Not the Germans who buy into anti-war rhetoric that makes them forget about the 12% unemployment rates and stagnant ecnomy.

If this guy wins based on a campaign of ripping on America, lmao at the Germans.

The economy and problems with reforms actually were two of the reasons which led to the pre-term elections.

For those interested: The election campaign was brief and boring. Most posters just showed the portraits of the party leaders and chancelor candidates. The rest were neutral photos from families and babies (two parties were caught using material from gettyimages, haha).

Politicians often play the foreign policy card when in trouble or election campaigns. Schroeder had success three years ago and I thought he would try it again. However foreign policy wasn't that important in his campaign (I've heard only now from this poster and tomorrow is the election date). I doubt that the Germans will elect him for foreign policy merits.

The claim that the German government prevented Germans dying in Iraq is speculative... Just because the opposition sympathized with OIF doesn't mean that they would've supported it with German soldiers.

Again, Iraq wasn't a big topic in the election campaigns; I've only found it mentioned twice on the website of Schroeder's party: here (at the bottom) and here (the last poster says: "For peace. Against blind following").

The rumor that the FDP could join the SPD and the Greens for a new coalition is very unlikely. A three party coalition would be a pain in the neck of the new chancelor. In my opinion, either the entire opposition (FDP and CDU) takes over, or SPD and the CDU will form a "Big Coalition" (called so because they are the biggest parties, traditionally belonging to contrasting wings of the political spectrum). If the recently founded "New Left" party makes enough votes, Schroeder could let it join the present SPD-Green coalition. But New Left basically are dinosaurs with few concepts, fishing for votes of the unsatisfied. I hope they aren't going to join a coalition (or even to pass the 5% hurdle). Ideologically speaking, the Big Coalition would be the best solution, but the last time this happened the coalition partners blocked each other and it was unsatisfying. So I'm hoping for the opposition to take over, with a strong minor partner (the FDP).

In my opinion the coffin poster is politically cheap and misleading to some degree, too. It's not gentleman-like behavior to politicise on the back of dead soldiers. But then I wonder again if some Americans are overly sensible to the photo because the Bush Administration tries to cover this photographs from the public eye (Bush not coming to funerals and the military base where the corpses arrive being a restricted area for journalists come to mind).

Has somebody a link to the poster in question?

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
It's really sickening how almost all of the Europeans on this forum use the 'You must live here to criticize here' argument...talk about being extremely hypocritical!

We can falsificate every "funny fact" Mr. Europhobe posts about our continent but when it comes down to claims about European mentalities and racism, first-hand experience would be in order.

It's sickening how some users are forgiving about CanOWorms learning resistance. Well I guess Pedro69 should scan and upload his passport or what...? How do I prove there never was a poster of blacks eating white babies? Ah well, CanOWorms could provide us a link... won't happen.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
You do not have to be personally abused by something in order to start criticizing it. I started looking more into Europe after my and family/friends experiences though. You do not have to have been beaten by Bush in order to criticize him and his policies.

Heh, you know. I don't have a problem with you criticizing European countries or the people in those countries. Some of that criticism valid and looking into and wanting to fix problems is always good.

It's just that you over-generalize and blow things way out of proportion in your posts. Sure, Germany has its fringe loonies that make a living of bashing pretty much everything the U.S does. But to somehow claim that it's a 'general state of mind' or a 'German mindset' is a tad far fetched. Same with that 'superior race' comment you made.

So basically, my problem isn't with your criticism. It's your hyperbole and over-generalizations that are the problem.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
You do not have to be personally abused by something in order to start criticizing it. I started looking more into Europe after my and family/friends experiences though. You do not have to have been beaten by Bush in order to criticize him and his policies.

Heh, you know. I don't have a problem with you criticizing European countries or the people in those countries. Some of that criticism valid and looking into and wanting to fix problems is always good.

It's just that you over-generalize and blow things way out of proportion in your posts. Sure, Germany has its fringe loonies that make a living of bashing pretty much everything the U.S does. But to somehow claim that it's a 'general state of mind' or a 'German mindset' is a tad far fetched. Same with that 'superior race' comment you made.

So basically, my problem isn't with your criticism. It's your hyperbole and over-generalizations that are the problem.

My comments represent the majority of the population. It's a fact that the majority of Germany and Europe declare themselves racist. I don't see anything wrong with talking about the 'German mindset.' We can talk about societies in general. The problem you have with it is when I bring about a negative aspect of a society. You see no problem with people talking about Europe being more mature because of history and such because it is a positive aspect. This line of thinking encourages supremacy.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: Proletariat
I'm asking because I have been to both of those countries but I have never seen anything like what you just described.

Unless that stuff is in some backward area comparable to our Texas.

LOL - you were abused by Big Tex when you were a child, weren't you?

:laugh:

You have to admit though, there are large portions of Texas inhabited by backwards people.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
You do not have to be personally abused by something in order to start criticizing it. I started looking more into Europe after my and family/friends experiences though. You do not have to have been beaten by Bush in order to criticize him and his policies.

Heh, you know. I don't have a problem with you criticizing European countries or the people in those countries. Some of that criticism valid and looking into and wanting to fix problems is always good.

It's just that you over-generalize and blow things way out of proportion in your posts. Sure, Germany has its fringe loonies that make a living of bashing pretty much everything the U.S does. But to somehow claim that it's a 'general state of mind' or a 'German mindset' is a tad far fetched. Same with that 'superior race' comment you made.

So basically, my problem isn't with your criticism. It's your hyperbole and over-generalizations that are the problem.

My comments represent the majority of the population. It's a fact that the majority of Germany and Europe declare themselves racist. I don't see anything wrong with talking about the 'German mindset.' We can talk about societies in general. The problem you have with it is when I bring about a negative aspect of a society. You see no problem with people talking about Europe being more mature because of history and such because it is a positive aspect. This line of thinking encourages supremacy.

And Republicans don't espouse American supremacy to Europe?

 

[imported_Pedro69]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
You do not have to be personally abused by something in order to start criticizing it. I started looking more into Europe after my and family/friends experiences though. You do not have to have been beaten by Bush in order to criticize him and his policies.

Heh, you know. I don't have a problem with you criticizing European countries or the people in those countries. Some of that criticism valid and looking into and wanting to fix problems is always good.

It's just that you over-generalize and blow things way out of proportion in your posts. Sure, Germany has its fringe loonies that make a living of bashing pretty much everything the U.S does. But to somehow claim that it's a 'general state of mind' or a 'German mindset' is a tad far fetched. Same with that 'superior race' comment you made.

So basically, my problem isn't with your criticism. It's your hyperbole and over-generalizations that are the problem.

My comments represent the majority of the population. It's a fact that the majority of Germany and Europe declare themselves racist. I don't see anything wrong with talking about the 'German mindset.' We can talk about societies in general. The problem you have with it is when I bring about a negative aspect of a society. You see no problem with people talking about Europe being more mature because of history and such because it is a positive aspect. This line of thinking encourages supremacy.

LOL
Note to self: Majority of CanOWormland needs to get laid

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
My comments represent the majority of the population.

As I've said before. I've seen nothing, during the time I was there, that would back up this claim of yours. But, whatever. Feel free to believe what you want.

It's a fact that the majority of Germany and Europe declare themselves racist.

News to me. None of the people I know declared themselves racist. Must have done it in secret or something.

I don't see anything wrong with talking about the 'German mindset.'

Never said there was anything wrong with talking about the 'German mindset'. But claiming to know it is something else entirely.

The problem you have with it is when I bring about a negative aspect of a society.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. This is false, as I've already said some of the criticism is valid.

I also happen to believe that a bit of self-criticism and self-analyzing is a good thing. It helps you understand your own flaws(Negative aspects of yourself if you will) and work on them to improve yourself.

You see no problem with people talking about Europe being more mature because of history and such because it is a positive aspect.

Again, putting words in my mouth. I actually DON'T believe that Europe is 'more mature'. Been through more, yes. Mature, hell no.

No one can claim moral superiority or claim to be 'more mature' when it comes to things like this. Do I have a problem with people claiming this? Quiet frankly, it's a non-issue for me. I don't take those types of people seriously.

So please, stop claiming to know how I think or see things. I'm pretty sure I'm more familiar with what goes on in my head than you are.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

And Republicans don't espouse American supremacy to Europe?

Many Americans do have a sense of supremacy due to superpower status of their country. I don't think that they think that they are inherently superior because of factors such as race like most Europeans do. I don't think that these people think that an American is better than a European, but that America is better than Europe. In Europe, it's Europe and Europeans are better than everyone else. There's a difference.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: JackStorm

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
My comments represent the majority of the population.

As I've said before. I've seen nothing, during the time I was there, that would back up this claim of yours. But, whatever. Feel free to believe what you want.

57% of Germans declared themselves racist in 1997, the last time the most comprehensive survey on European racism was studied. I have posted links to this survey dozens of times on this forum. The overall EU15 had a racism self-declaration of 66%. The poll was carried out between 26 March and 29 April 1997 in the fifteen Member States at the request of the Employment, Industrial Relations and Social Affairs Directorate (DGV) of the European Commission within the framework of Eurobarometer 47.1. It involved 16,154 people. It was commissioned as part of the European Year Against Racism and coordinated by INRA (Europe). The last poll of this kind was taken in 1988. The data were analysed under the responsibility of Jeanne Ben Brika and Gérard Lemaine (Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales, Paris), and James S. Jackson (University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan).

I do not think that it's a stretch of the imagination to realize that this figure can easily be 80% or even 90% with the rise of the far-right and the proliferation of their ideas into mainstream politics.

It's a fact that the majority of Germany and Europe declare themselves racist.

News to me. None of the people I know declared themselves racist. Must have done it in secret or something.

I guess that you just beat the odds.

I don't see anything wrong with talking about the 'German mindset.'

Never said there was anything wrong with talking about the 'German mindset'. But claiming to know it is something else entirely.

I'm not saying that someone can disagree with me. It's just my belief.

The problem you have with it is when I bring about a negative aspect of a society.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. This is false, as I've already said some of the criticism is valid.

I also happen to believe that a bit of self-criticism and self-analyzing is a good thing. It helps you understand your own flaws(Negative aspects of yourself if you will) and work on them to improve yourself.

Yes, I agree.

You see no problem with people talking about Europe being more mature because of history and such because it is a positive aspect.

Again, putting words in my mouth. I actually DON'T believe that Europe is 'more mature'. Been through more, yes. Mature, hell no.

No one can claim moral superiority or claim to be 'more mature' when it comes to things like this. Do I have a problem with people claiming this? Quiet frankly, it's a non-issue for me. I don't take those types of claims seriously.

So please, stop claiming to know how I think or see things. I'm pretty sure I'm more familiar with what goes on in my head than you are.

Feel free to believe what you want. I can believe that someone thinks a sort of way.

 

[RabidMongoose]

We can falsificate every "funny fact" Mr. Europhobe posts about our continent but when it comes down to claims about European mentalities and racism, first-hand experience would be in order.

I don't see why you need 'first hand experience' when dealing with racism. As CoW discussed earlier, perhaps you need to be a part of the group suffering from the racism istead...or so on. It's simply a cop out that almost every European poster on this forum seems to have used. You can use the same excuse for the US, Iraq, or anywhere else in the entire world then. Of course right after a poster has used this sort of excuse, he runs into another thread about an area of the world that he hasn't experienced much of and starts talking about it.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

I do not think that it's a stretch of the imagination to realize that this figure can easily be 80% or even 90% with the rise of the far-right and the proliferation of their ideas into mainstream politics.

Well I do. So I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, as neither of us seems to be about to change their mind on this issue.

I guess that you just beat the odds.

*Shrugs* Maybe I did, who knows.

Feel free to believe what you want. I can believe that someone thinks a sort of way.

Aye, you can indeed.

Personally though, I'd prefer to have facts or actual information about said persons mindset, behavior or actions before claiming to know how they think. After all, believing something doesn't always make it true.

But to each his own, I guess.

 

[imported_Pedro69]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
57% of Germans declared themselves racist in 1997, the last time the most comprehensive survey on European racism was studied. I have posted links to this survey dozens of times on this forum. The overall EU15 had a racism self-declaration of 66%. The poll was carried out between 26 March and 29 April 1997 in the fifteen Member States at the request of the Employment, Industrial Relations and Social Affairs Directorate (DGV) of the European Commission within the framework of Eurobarometer 47.1. It involved 16,154 people. It was commissioned as part of the European Year Against Racism and coordinated by INRA (Europe). The last poll of this kind was taken in 1988. The data were analysed under the responsibility of Jeanne Ben Brika and Gérard Lemaine (Ecole des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales, Paris), and James S. Jackson (University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Michigan).

From your survey:

Degree of expressed racism (distribution by country) (in percents, non responses excluded)

?Some people feel they are not at all racist. Others feel they are very racist. Would you look at this card and give me the number that shows your ownfeelings about this? If you feel you are not at all racist, you give a score of 1. If you feel you are very racist, you give a score of 10. The scores between 1 and 10 allow you to say how close to either side you are.?
For the purposes of this graph, all those who scored 1 were classified as ?not at all racist?, those who scored 2 and 3 were classified as ?a little racist?, 4 to 6 were classified as ?quite racist? and 7 to 10 as ?very racist?

So where is your extremism? A total of 8% consider themself as very racist.

Here is a Link to the results of the last elections. Funny how I don't find any rightwing nazi party on it. :roll:

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Pedro69
So where is your extremism? A total of 8% consider themself as very racist.

Here is a Link to the results of the last elections. Funny how I don't find any rightwing nazi party on it. :roll:

66% of Europeans declared themselves racist, of which half of that 66% described themselves as very racist or quite racist. Read the first page of the survey. I think that it would be naive to think that the numbers have not increased drastically since then because of the proliferation of far-right ideas.

And yes, I see parties in that link which are influenced by far-right ideology. Are you seriously suggesting that supporting concentration camps is not a far-right ideology? You need to remember that I am looking at this from a non-European perspective. Your more liberal candidates are extremely far-right compared to most US politicians in regards to minorities/undesirables just like American liberals look different in a European perspective on some issues.

There is no need for fringe far-right extremist parties when the mainstream parties feel free to pick up their ideology. You can easily see this is the case with the idea of concentration camps being fielded by mainstream parties. Such an idea should only be fielded by fringe parties.

 

[imported_Pedro69]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Pedro69
So where is your extremism? A total of 8% consider themself as very racist.

Here is a Link to the results of the last elections. Funny how I don't find any rightwing nazi party on it. :roll:

And yes, I see parties in that link which are influenced by far-right ideology.

No you don't


Edit: BTW what is it now leftwing or rightwing extremism ? Link

Oh and one thing more: Before spouting nonsense about Racism of another country you first should take care of your own: White american racism

We can handle our racism. Can you handle yours?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Pedro69

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Pedro69
So where is your extremism? A total of 8% consider themself as very racist.

Here is a Link to the results of the last elections. Funny how I don't find any rightwing nazi party on it. :roll:

And yes, I see parties in that link which are influenced by far-right ideology.

No you don't


Edit: BTW what is it now leftwing or rightwing extremism ? Link

[/quote]

Yes, I do see parties which are influenced by far-right extremsists. A mainstream political party that advocates the use of concentration camps has been infiltrated by far-right idealists.

Oh and one thing more: Before spouting nonsense about Racism of another country you first should take care of your own: White american racism

We can handle our racism. Can you handle yours?

Classic. As I've stated before, this is what pro-apartheid supporters used to say. You should be ashamed of yourself. I will criticize what I want when I want. It is quite obvious that Europe cannot handle their own racism - they let it balloon out of control time and time again. This is a historical fact. If we act now we can prevent another genocide.

I hope that you don't post in any non-Germany related threads if that is the rule you follow.

The UN even condemend Germany a few months ago for the rise of far-right activities.

 

[chcarnage]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

We can falsificate every "funny fact" Mr. Europhobe posts about our continent but when it comes down to claims about European mentalities and racism, first-hand experience would be in order.

I don't see why you need 'first hand experience' when dealing with racism. As CoW discussed earlier, perhaps you need to be a part of the group suffering from the racism istead...or so on. It's simply a cop out that almost every European poster on this forum seems to have used. You can use the same excuse for the US, Iraq, or anywhere else in the entire world then. Of course right after a poster has used this sort of excuse, he runs into another thread about an area of the world that he hasn't experienced much of and starts talking about it.

In the meantime, the racism accusation was relativated and more hot air (concentration camp plans in Europe, right wing extremist parties in German national parliament) without any links is vented in.

I'm not at all in P&N for holding hands and stuff but CoW surely isn't here for discussing. From all the users here his opinion is the most unlikely to ever change and he practically only gives it about one topic.

Naturally it's up to each reader to decide who's credible on a topic. It's not at all forbidden to discuss places where you've not been but in this case a critic reflection of one's opinion from time to time is appropriate.

CoW once said he's been in Europe and shocked by the racism, decadence and so on, however no details followed, so I don't know if this was a bluff or if there was a crucial experience which influenced his opinion on Europe... (Hey CoW write something about your personal experiences or send me a PM )

"You must have been there" obviously is a common argument among Europeans here, given their origin and the proportions of European/North American/Iraqi people here. The Euros are a tiny minority and all have a more positive image of North America than CoW has of Europe, so wonder no longer.

/off for the weekend

 

[imported_Pedro69]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Pedro69

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: Pedro69
So where is your extremism? A total of 8% consider themself as very racist.

Here is a Link to the results of the last elections. Funny how I don't find any rightwing nazi party on it. :roll:

And yes, I see parties in that link which are influenced by far-right ideology.

No you don't


Edit: BTW what is it now leftwing or rightwing extremism ? Link

Yes, I do see parties which are influenced by far-right extremsists. A mainstream political party that advocates the use of concentration camps has been infiltrated by far-right idealists.

Oh and one thing more: Before spouting nonsense about Racism of another country you first should take care of your own: White american racism

We can handle our racism. Can you handle yours?

Classic. As I've stated before, this is what pro-apartheid supporters used to say. You should be ashamed of yourself. I will criticize what I want when I want. It is quite obvious that Europe cannot handle their own racism - they let it balloon out of control time and time again. This is a historical fact. If we act now we can prevent another genocide.

I hope that you don't post in any non-Germany related threads if that is the rule you follow.

The UN even condemend Germany a few months ago for the rise of far-right activities.[/quote]
Ok enough of the fun lets cut to the chase: How many Germans do YOU know who are racists to a degree the rest of the world should worry?

You stated that 57% of all germans are racist. The Survey shows only 8% consider themself "very racist" the majority consider themself as not racist at all or little. This means you are a liar.
What is next? Will you warn that Germany has bought significant quantities of uramium in africa?

You can state what you want and when, but it is my right to call you on it.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Pedro69

Ok enough of the fun lets cut to the chase: How many Germans do YOU know who are racists to a degree the rest of the world should worry?

You stated that 57% of all germans are racist. The Survey shows only 8% consider themself "very racist" the majority consider themself as not racist at all or little. This means you are a liar.
What is next? Will you warn that Germany has bought significant quantities of uramium in africa?

You can state what you want and when, but it is my right to call you on it.

You are a liar.

The vast majority of Germans and Europeans are racist. You can split it 3 roughly equal ways - 1/3 is very/quite racist, 1/3 a little racist, and 1/3 is not racist. The statistics show this. It is an undeniable fact. I think that if the poll was done this year, the statistics would be shocking, on the order of 80-90% declaring themselves racist.

I think that the rest of the world should be worrying and many are. Rwanda is a good example. France's organization of the Rwanda genocide was a wake-up call.