School punishes student for not standing during the pledge of allegiance

[Oldgamer]

Link to News Article and Video

Just some thoughts, first a court ruled some time back that nonparticipation in the flag salute is protected by the first amendment see here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_cases_involving_Jehovah's_Witnesses_by_country

Secondly this kid sounds pretty intelligent and is making a silent protest which is his right to do and legally protected. He isn't being disruptive in the school, or doing anything that is harmful of the learning process of others. I don't even think he is really being disrespectful either. If you take a look at all the Vet's commenting on the facebook comment portion you will see they all agree that this kid has a right to not participate and none of them feel he is being disrespectful. I am interested in hearing others well thought out responses on this.

 

[Gerle]

The kid doesn't have to stand or recite the pledge, as long as he is not disruptive he's fine. Most of the people in the article just don't get it. Freedom means just that, he has a choice.

I forgot to mention I'm by now in my fifteenth year as an active duty Marine.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Link to News Article and Video

Just some thoughts, first a court ruled some time back that nonparticipation in the flag salute is protected by the first amendment see here: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_cases_involving_Jehovah's_Witnesses_by_country

Secondly this kid sounds pretty intelligent and is making a silent protest which is his right to do and legally protected. He isn't being disruptive in the school, or doing anything that is harmful of the learning process of others. I don't even think he is really being disrespectful either. If you take a look at all the Vet's commenting on the facebook comment portion you will see they all agree that this kid has a right to not participate and none of them feel he is being disrespectful. I am interested in hearing others well thought out responses on this.

I'm surprised that this person's brain didn't explode when they said this (from article above):

"“I think he’s being disrespectful to the flag, and those folks who gave their lives for him to have his opinion,” said Needville resident David McDonald."

This guy gets it though:

"“The kid’s well-spoken and he’s well-informed,” said Needville neighbor Dean Reese. “It’s not like he’s ignorant, he’s not doing it to make people mad. He’s doing it because of his personal beliefs.”

Reese believes punishing Mason for speaking his mind, sends the wrong message.

“I’m a veteran, I’m not real big on flag-burning or anything like that, but this country is a free country and we’re free to do what we want,” he said."

 

[MongGrel]

Show me the money, more or less.

School will lose that one.

I thought this whole issue was resolved many years ago really.

 

[Mai72]

At first I was pissed but then I gave it some thought.

It's amazing that we live in a free country. Imagine if you did this thing in another country? I was living in Thailand, and you had to always show the king respect. I went to see a movie and right before the show we had to stand and show respect the king. If you did not do this you could possibly be looking at jail time. Even if you are a foreigner.

 

[Mai72]

At first I was pissed but then I gave it some thought.

It's amazing that we live in a free country. Imagine if you did this thing in another country? I was living in Thailand, and you have to always show the king respect. I went to see a movie and right before the show we had to stand for the king. If you did not do this you could possibly be looking at jail time. Even if you are a foreigner.

 

[Sonikku]

Snot lives in a free country and all we ask in return is for him to swear allegiance to one nation under God. If he feels it should not be obligatory, he is of course free to do without an education. Choice.

 

[MongGrel]

Snot lives in a free country and all we ask in return is for him to swear allegiance to one nation under God. If he feels it should not be obligatory, he is of course free to do without an education. Choice.

Yes he does, and why he can freely not participate if he chooses not to and still get an education.

He did nothing wrong.

 

[drebo]

As a student in a public school, you don't have the right to free speech or to protest.

Kid is stupid. Stand up and keep your mouth shut.

 

[Anarchist420]

Snot lives in a free country and all we ask in return is for him to swear allegiance to one nation under God. If he feels it should not be obligatory, he is of course free to do without an education. Choice.

education is compulsory.

 

[Rakehellion]

Snot lives in a free country

He's exercising his freedom. Don't be dense.

 

[Rakehellion]

As a student in a public school, you don't have the right to free speech or to protest.

Kid is stupid. Stand up and keep your mouth shut.

He has the right to all of those things. Go back to North Korea, pinko.

 

[DrPizza]

As a student in a public school, you don't have the right to free speech or to protest.

Kid is stupid. Stand up and keep your mouth shut.

Unless I'm mistaken, this has already been settled, years ago, by the SC. The kid is in the right; and I truly hope he sues for the civil rights violation. Forcing someone to say a pledge cheapens the pledge - at that point, it becomes a completely meaningless tradition; not that for the most part this isn't already true.

 

[alzan]

By not making a fuss and not standing the student is not only exercising his freedom, the student is upholding only one of the many ideals for which the flag stands. Good for him.

The school needs to do the right thing and expunge the suspension from the students' record.

 

[werepossum]

The kid doesn't have to stand or recite the pledge, as long as he is not disruptive he's fine. Most of the people in the article just don't get it. Freedom means just that, he has a choice.

I forgot to mention I'm by now in my fifteenth year as an active duty Marine.

Well said, and thank you for your service.

At first I was pissed but then I gave it some thought.

It's amazing that we live in a free country. Imagine if you did this thing in another country? I was living in Thailand, and you had to always show the king respect. I went to see a movie and right before the show we had to stand and show respect the king. If you did not do this you could possibly be looking at jail time. Even if you are a foreigner.

Also well said. Freedom is grand, and while it reflexively pisses me off as well, I respect the kid if he's honestly following his beliefs and not being a dick about it. Either way, it's his choice.

Certain religions like Witnesses and Quakers actively prohibit pledging allegiance to any secular power.

 

[MongGrel]

As a student in a public school, you don't have the right to free speech or to protest.

Kid is stupid. Stand up and keep your mouth shut.

,,,

 

[Gerle]

Snot lives in a free country and all we ask in return is for him to swear allegiance to one nation under God. If he feels it should not be obligatory, he is of course free to do without an education. Choice.

He's not free to do without an education, and fortunately we don't ask or make him swear allegiance to anything. That's a pretty good deal.

As a student in a public school, you don't have the right to free speech or to protest.

Kid is stupid. Stand up and keep your mouth shut.

You may not be stupid, I don't know, but right now you are acting as if you are fairly dense. Shutting up and sitting down might be a good course of action.

 

[Subyman]

Stupid kid. As soon as he does that, other kids want to join in and you end up with a disruptive situation.

 

[Gerle]

Stupid kid. As soon as he does that, other kids want to join in and you end up with a disruptive situation.

No. They are free to do the same, that is sit down and be quiet, which is not disruptive. Any teacher worth the title can control that type of situation.
Also, why would that kid be held responsible for what other kids choose to do?

 

[Subyman]

No. They are free to do the same, that is sit down and be quiet, which is not disruptive. Any teacher worth the title can control that type of situation.

So half the class of american students refuse to say the pledge? Sounds like a bright future.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Stupid kid. As soon as he does that, other kids want to join in and you end up with a disruptive situation.

As long as everybody sits quietly how is that disruptive?

 

[Brainonska511]

So half the class of american students refuse to say the pledge? Sounds like a bright future.

What's the solution? Force people to say the pledge? I didn't realize we were living in the Soviet Union. In this country, we have the choice to say or not say the pledge. And as has been previously ruled upon, as long as a student's speech is non-disruptive (and how is sitting quietly during the pledge disruptive, unless you're some kind of loud-mouth schnook that gets upset at such imagined slights?), then the student is free to exercise his rights in school.

 

[LTC8K6]

He's exercising his freedom. Don't be dense.

You don't have freedom in school, though.

Plenty of choices you can't make.

Plenty of restrictions on your freedom in school.

 

[Brainonska511]

You don't have freedom in school, though.

Plenty of choices you can't make.

Plenty of restrictions on your freedom in school.

Do they teach people anything in school these days? Because you are frankly, quite wrong.

Tinker v. Des Moines ring a bell?

There are some restrictions, but it mainly focuses on whether exercising one's rights is disruptive to the educational environment. Non-disruptive speech is a perfectly appropriate way for a student to use the freedoms they have in a school setting.

 

[Gerle]

So half the class of american students refuse to say the pledge? Sounds like a bright future.

Do you want them to be forced to say it, do you want them to just recite it without understanding it, what is it you envision?