School me on Hiking boots and Backpacks.

todpod

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2001
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0
76
The summer of 2015 my son and I will be going to Philmont Boy Scout camp for 2 weeks. We both are going to need back packs and hiking boots. There are tons available. What do I need to be looking for and brands to avoid. We have have to try and keep the budget reasonable, somewhere about $100 for the boot and backpack (that's each). Hopefully we can get them soon enough so that we can use them this summer some.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
What kind of hiking are you going to be doing? E.g., are you going to spend a week living out of your pack, while hiking 50 or so miles, carrying your sleeping pad, sleeping bag, and tent with you? Or is this a drive up to the cabin type thing where occasionally you might hike half a mile and carry your lunch in the pack?
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
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For your price range, go to a local military surplus store for decent quality. As DrPizza said, the type of camping you'll be doing makes a big difference.
 

Ayrahvon

Senior member
Aug 7, 2007
683
4
81
High Sierra does some pretty good work. I've done long hikes (granted, with food) with a 45 litre internal pack and I had to put my tent on the exterior to fit everything. I'd probably go with a 55 in hindsight for that length of trip.

Really, for both boots and packs I think you're best going to a specialty store and getting the right fit. Make sure to take a few day hikes with the gear to make sure everything is comfortable and you can then break the boots in. I've taken new boots on a 7 day hike before and my feet were ruined with blisters because of movement on the downhill.
 

JamesV

Platinum Member
Jul 9, 2011
2,002
2
76
Merrell and Keen make good hiking boots and sandals. Most Dicks stores carry them, so you could try them out for feel. I typically look for something waterproof, because I'm an 'off the trail' kind of hiker, and I love kayaking, but waterproof can be hot as hell on your feet in the summer (I usually opt for sandals).

For a camping situation, I'd recommend both sandals and hiking boots. There is nothing worse than being miserable in wet shoes, and being able to put on your sandals after a hike, and hang your hikers on some sticks by the fire - priceless.

As for backpacks, I use my Army issued duffle-backpack. We usually do week long dispersed trips (just go walk into a national forest, find a spot, and make camp), so even for miles of hard walking, a simple Army pack works just as well as my buddy's $200 frame pack (and weighs less).

The boots will cost you around $100+ for good ones, but I wouldn't go crazy on a backpack, unless you have money to burn and must have the best. My go-to cheap brand for camp equipment is Kelty. Got a tent for $40 on sale that is better than my friends $150 tents and a hydration pack for $20 that is just as good as any Camelback.
 

rdiver

Junior Member
Jun 13, 2006
12
0
61
As someone who's been on 2 treks and spent 4 summers on staff at Philmont, i can give you some insight.

First, I wouldn't skimp on your boots. They will be your most important item on the trail. I've seen many people come off the trail due to either poor quality boots or improper fitting of their boots. The terrain is varied from flat meadows, to stream crossings, to climbing above timberline. The elevation range is from 6600ft at base camp to 12,441ft at the highest point. On my treks, I used a $200+ pair of Asolo goretex backpacking boots. They were heavy, but they've held up for 12+ years.
I would recommend something similar to this. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Foot...rd1546137&WTz_l=SBC;BRprd1546137;cat104104980 It's waterproof and full leather. Nubuck or split grain leather will be eaten alive by the rocks, scree and weight of your pack.


You should choose a pack that will allow you to carry all your gear for the 10 days and food for about 3 days. (you'll be scheduled to resupply every 2-4 days). As a leader, you should pick a bigger size pack. You will most likely be carrying around 70-80lbs pack. The kids you're with will get tired and to keep them moving, you'll probably take some of their weight by about day 4 or 5. In addition, you'll probably need space for water reserves. Some camps you'll stay overnight at might be dry. This means the crew will need to carry all the water for drinking, cooking and cleaning for about 24 hours.

Be mindful of the weight of everything you bring. Do you have a sleeping bag/pad/tent picked out for you and your son yet? Do you know how the crew will be cooking? Philmont provides pots and utensils, but you'll need to bring your own stove. Are you thinking of white gas or butane canister stove?

Philmont was one of the greatest experiences of my life. We did close to 100 miles in 10 days. What makes philmont great is not just the backpacking, but the programs you will experience. The living history program is phenomenal, the staff is all great, and if you're prepared, you'll have a great time.

Let me know if you have any additional questions and I can let you know what to expect.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,071
744
126
I cheaped out on hiking boots once and got plastic instead of steel shanks. Walking on rocks was painful.
 

Ayrahvon

Senior member
Aug 7, 2007
683
4
81
As someone who's been on 2 treks and spent 4 summers on staff at Philmont, i can give you some insight.

First, I wouldn't skimp on your boots. They will be your most important item on the trail. I've seen many people come off the trail due to either poor quality boots or improper fitting of their boots. The terrain is varied from flat meadows, to stream crossings, to climbing above timberline. The elevation range is from 6600ft at base camp to 12,441ft at the highest point. On my treks, I used a $200+ pair of Asolo goretex backpacking boots. They were heavy, but they've held up for 12+ years.
I would recommend something similar to this. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Foot...rd1546137&WTz_l=SBC;BRprd1546137;cat104104980 It's waterproof and full leather. Nubuck or split grain leather will be eaten alive by the rocks, scree and weight of your pack.


You should choose a pack that will allow you to carry all your gear for the 10 days and food for about 3 days. (you'll be scheduled to resupply every 2-4 days). As a leader, you should pick a bigger size pack. You will most likely be carrying around 70-80lbs pack. The kids you're with will get tired and to keep them moving, you'll probably take some of their weight by about day 4 or 5. In addition, you'll probably need space for water reserves. Some camps you'll stay overnight at might be dry. This means the crew will need to carry all the water for drinking, cooking and cleaning for about 24 hours.

Be mindful of the weight of everything you bring. Do you have a sleeping bag/pad/tent picked out for you and your son yet? Do you know how the crew will be cooking? Philmont provides pots and utensils, but you'll need to bring your own stove. Are you thinking of white gas or butane canister stove?

Philmont was one of the greatest experiences of my life. We did close to 100 miles in 10 days. What makes philmont great is not just the backpacking, but the programs you will experience. The living history program is phenomenal, the staff is all great, and if you're prepared, you'll have a great time.

Let me know if you have any additional questions and I can let you know what to expect.


Everything he said, especially since he has experience with the hike itself.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
31,441
9,342
136
Do you guys get Berghaus stuff over there?

If found their boot incredibly comfortable without any need to break in.

This sort of thing.

http://store.berghaus.com/p/footwear/mens-explorer-ridge-gore-tex-walking-boots/480020

As for packs, they are all going to seem like hell if you're not used to them.

What ever pack you buy, train your self up on it. No matter how good the pack is its going to be agony if you're not used to carrying.
 

todpod

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2001
1,275
0
76
As someone who's been on 2 treks and spent 4 summers on staff at Philmont, i can give you some insight.

First, I wouldn't skimp on your boots. They will be your most important item on the trail. I've seen many people come off the trail due to either poor quality boots or improper fitting of their boots. The terrain is varied from flat meadows, to stream crossings, to climbing above timberline. The elevation range is from 6600ft at base camp to 12,441ft at the highest point. On my treks, I used a $200+ pair of Asolo goretex backpacking boots. They were heavy, but they've held up for 12+ years.
I would recommend something similar to this. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Foot...rd1546137&WTz_l=SBC;BRprd1546137;cat104104980 It's waterproof and full leather. Nubuck or split grain leather will be eaten alive by the rocks, scree and weight of your pack.


You should choose a pack that will allow you to carry all your gear for the 10 days and food for about 3 days. (you'll be scheduled to resupply every 2-4 days). As a leader, you should pick a bigger size pack. You will most likely be carrying around 70-80lbs pack. The kids you're with will get tired and to keep them moving, you'll probably take some of their weight by about day 4 or 5. In addition, you'll probably need space for water reserves. Some camps you'll stay overnight at might be dry. This means the crew will need to carry all the water for drinking, cooking and cleaning for about 24 hours.

Be mindful of the weight of everything you bring. Do you have a sleeping bag/pad/tent picked out for you and your son yet? Do you know how the crew will be cooking? Philmont provides pots and utensils, but you'll need to bring your own stove. Are you thinking of white gas or butane canister stove?

Philmont was one of the greatest experiences of my life. We did close to 100 miles in 10 days. What makes philmont great is not just the backpacking, but the programs you will experience. The living history program is phenomenal, the staff is all great, and if you're prepared, you'll have a great time.

Let me know if you have any additional questions and I can let you know what to expect.

Thanks for the info. One of our leaders has been there, and right know its just me and him. I am looking forward to it just want to be ready. I want to get the boots this summer to have time to break them in and use them on a few day hike. It was my understanding that the tents were coming from philmont. Not sure about the stoves yet. We got a former marine / state trooper who is going to take us hiking some here. I have some doubts about a couple of the boys but we will see.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
As someone who's been on 2 treks and spent 4 summers on staff at Philmont, i can give you some insight. First, I wouldn't skimp on your boots. They will be your most important item on the trail. I've seen many people come off the trail due to either poor quality boots or improper fitting of their boots. The terrain is varied from flat meadows, to stream crossings, to climbing above timberline. The elevation range is from 6600ft at base camp to 12,441ft at the highest point. On my treks, I used a $200+ pair of Asolo goretex backpacking boots. They were heavy, but they've held up for 12+ years. I would recommend something similar to this. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Footw...3Bcat104104980 It's waterproof and full leather. Nubuck or split grain leather will be eaten alive by the rocks, scree and weight of your pack. You should choose a pack that will allow you to carry all your gear for the 10 days and food for about 3 days. (you'll be scheduled to resupply every 2-4 days). As a leader, you should pick a bigger size pack. You will most likely be carrying around 70-80lbs pack. The kids you're with will get tired and to keep them moving, you'll probably take some of their weight by about day 4 or 5. In addition, you'll probably need space for water reserves. Some camps you'll stay overnight at might be dry. This means the crew will need to carry all the water for drinking, cooking and cleaning for about 24 hours. Be mindful of the weight of everything you bring. Do you have a sleeping bag/pad/tent picked out for you and your son yet? Do you know how the crew will be cooking? Philmont provides pots and utensils, but you'll need to bring your own stove. Are you thinking of white gas or butane canister stove? Philmont was one of the greatest experiences of my life. We did close to 100 miles in 10 days. What makes philmont great is not just the backpacking, but the programs you will experience. The living history program is phenomenal, the staff is all great, and if you're prepared, you'll have a great time. Let me know if you have any additional questions and I can let you know what to expect.

what would you recommend for extra wide boots. size 12.5 or 13

would want them to be useful in multiple environments
 

rdiver

Junior Member
Jun 13, 2006
12
0
61
what would you recommend for extra wide boots. size 12.5 or 13

would want them to be useful in multiple environments

I've been out of it for a few years, so I'm not sure what's out there now. It's just a matter on finding a good fitting boot for you.

As I mentioned above, full leather is the way to go. I did training hikes in Vasque Clarion's and they wore out after about 100 miles.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
I've been out of it for a few years, so I'm not sure what's out there now. It's just a matter on finding a good fitting boot for you. As I mentioned above, full leather is the way to go. I did training hikes in Vasque Clarion's and they wore out after about 100 miles.

would think they would be able to come up with some well performing synthetics even if they were expensive.

what are the differences in use between low mid and high
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
Thanks for the info. One of our leaders has been there, and right know its just me and him. I am looking forward to it just want to be ready. I want to get the boots this summer to have time to break them in and use them on a few day hike. It was my understanding that the tents were coming from philmont. Not sure about the stoves yet. We got a former marine / state trooper who is going to take us hiking some here. I have some doubts about a couple of the boys but we will see.

I spent about 6 years as a camp counselor and guide in the BWCA for ages 8 to 16. We focused on showing inner city kids where water, air and, freedom come from. In all those years and hundreds of campers, only one kid ever failed to rise to the challenge so, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised regarding those boys you have doubts about.
 

Tiamat

Lifer
Nov 25, 2003
14,068
5
71
go to a store like REI where you can literally try on boots and load up a backpack with 15-20 lbs of sandbags and pillows and walk around for 30 minutes. Usually during the 30 minutes you will figure out what is wrong with what you are trying on, and when you share that experience with the sales person, they can point you to a different set. Rinse/Repeat. I know this sounds time consuming, but it is the only way to ensure a perfect fit and no unnecessary blisters or hot spots.

I have no experience with boots, but with packs, I have had good luck with Kelty in terms of price, comfort, and durability. I tried a Deuter pack but it didn't contour to my shoulders and back as good and caused uncomfortable hot spots.

Out of my family and friends, we all ended up with different brands after we all went through this grueling process of finding a backpack. Gregory, Kelty, Osprey, and Deuter were the winning brands.
 

rdiver

Junior Member
Jun 13, 2006
12
0
61
would think they would be able to come up with some well performing synthetics even if they were expensive.

what are the differences in use between low mid and high

The main difference I feel like is the amount of weight your carrying and the distance. Thru hikers will most likely have a low or mid cut because they are carrying lighter weights, the boots are lighter and more nimble. Whereas a high cut will allow more ankle support for rugged terrain and allow you to carry more weight.

To put it in perspective, I've used a couple of different set ups. When I guided during the fall at philmont, I used a Osprey Argon 85 pack which weighed about six pounds, full leather boots, 4 season tent, zero degree down bag. My pack full weighed probably close to 90lbs, but I was with older guys and we didn't go too far. 5 to 7 miles a day.

During the summer, if I hiked for fun, I went ultralight. Osprey talon 44 or 33 liter pack, low cut trail runners, 30 degree bag, no tent. Total weight about 25-30lbs. Could do about 50 miles in 3 days off. Did 45 miles in a day a couple of time. I did that once in the high cut and once in low cut. Had bad blisters halfway through in the high cut.
 

norseamd

Lifer
Dec 13, 2013
13,990
180
106
The main difference I feel like is the amount of weight your carrying and the distance. Thru hikers will most likely have a low or mid cut because they are carrying lighter weights, the boots are lighter and more nimble. Whereas a high cut will allow more ankle support for rugged terrain and allow you to carry more weight. To put it in perspective, I've used a couple of different set ups. When I guided during the fall at philmont, I used a Osprey Argon 85 pack which weighed about six pounds, full leather boots, 4 season tent, zero degree down bag. My pack full weighed probably close to 90lbs, but I was with older guys and we didn't go too far. 5 to 7 miles a day. During the summer, if I hiked for fun, I went ultralight. Osprey talon 44 or 33 liter pack, low cut trail runners, 30 degree bag, no tent. Total weight about 25-30lbs. Could do about 50 miles in 3 days off. Did 45 miles in a day a couple of time. I did that once in the high cut and once in low cut. Had bad blisters halfway through in the high cut.

so are these multi sport shoes any good or should i just get a low boot for use on both street and outdoors. would like something that can handle pavement, grass fields, shallow streams if possible, and steep trails (like 45 or more)
 

MagnusTheBrewer

IN MEMORIAM
Jun 19, 2004
24,122
1,594
126
that is what i have heard

that and the rocks in the streams are all sharp and jagged so you can not walk barefoot

It's all good. The water's so cold, if you're not wearing boots, you can't feel your feet after thirty seconds anyways (in August).