SB to IB - Intel cheaping out on thermal solution

[Turbonium]

So I've heard a lot of talk about how Intel cheaped out on the thermal solution when moving to Ivy Bridge from Sandy Bridge.

What exactly is the difference? Can someone please clarify?

I'm assuming it's the following:

SB: Soldered interface between the heat spreader and the CPU die.
IB: Thermal interface material/pad between the heat spreader and the CPU die.

Do I have the right idea here?

 

[Liquid_Static]

You have it exactly right.

 

[tweakboy]

What does he win, he wins a prize for that one. Answering his own question. gl

 

[crashtech]

I've been curious how that solder process worked. Did they metallize then tin the top of the die?

 

[Wall Street]

I've been curious how that solder process worked. Did they metallize then tin the top of the die?

I don't know how Intel does it, but How It's Made on the Discovery Channel had an episode with IBM chip packaging. A precise picker machine placed a bunch of pre-tinned chip packages on a tray, then placed dies on the packages and final placed a pre-tinned heat spreader on the dies. The whole tray went into an oven that melted the die, package and heatspreader together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0HpiwDDALU

I think that is the episode.

 

[crashtech]

Thanks, but I don't believe that video shows the process in question.

 

[Wall Street]

Watch from 2:13 to 3:10. They definately add a heatspreader. I must not have remembered correctly because they oven once to attach the die to the substrate any again to attach the heatspreader. In the video they call the heatspreader the cap. At 2:13 it looks like a machine is laying solder on top of the chips before the spreader is added.

 

[crashtech]

Oddly, the CPUs shown after that sequence have no heat spreader. I'm still wondering if they're able to get solder to adhere to a properly prepared chip, or if there must be a metallization process to the top surface of the die prior to tinning or soldering.

 

[Wall Street]

Oddly, the CPUs shown after that sequence have no heat spreader. I'm still wondering if they're able to get solder to adhere to a properly prepared chip, or if there must be a metallization process to the top surface of the die prior to tinning or soldering.

Since almost all die currently use flip chip technology the top layer should already be a metal layer. Just need to make sure that there is an additional inert metal layer so the solder doesn't short anything.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I'm still happy with my IB. Please don't ruin it for me.

 

[UaVaj]

there are mixed reviews as to why IB has poorer heat transfer. some states it is the TIM, some states it is the IHS.

the fix. intel should have presented IB with no IHS. if you own an IB - need to delid. direct die thermal transfer.

had known ahead of time. would had considered a SB instead. then again maybe not. IB has a 5%-6% faster IPC.

 

[Borealis7]

not only poor heat transfer is the culprit, but IB has higher transistor density than SB (due to the move to 22nm) but roughly the same die area as SB and that increases the heat output even more.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Did Intel ever make a statement regarding this?

 

[Phynaz]

No, why would they?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

No, why would they?

Exactly. If you don't overclock, it doesn't matter. So for 99.9% of their end users... hell with it.

 

[Vesku]

Idontcare's testing showed that just reducing the gap between die and heatspreader (removing the heatsink, reapplying TIM, and putting the heatsink on without the glue layer) meant a nice improvement in keeping IB cool.

So part of the difference is they went from soldering to TIM while keeping the die to heatspreader dimensions the same. Understandable, you'd want to make any significant dimensional changes on a socket change not within a same socket family.

 

[UaVaj]

Exactly. If you don't overclock, it doesn't matter. So for 99.9% of their end users... hell with it.

hate overclocking, would gladly coin up for the next faster cpu.

sadly there isn't enough ipc (even on the fastest cpu) on 2 core to maintain enough fps for some games.

so overclock it is.

 

[Turbonium]

hate overclocking, would gladly coin up for the next faster cpu.

sadly there isn't enough ipc (even on the fastest cpu) on 2 core to maintain enough fps for some games.

so overclock it is.

So I take it you're not using anything above an i3?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

So I take it you're not using anything above an i3?

I read that as "some games don't use more than 2 cores, so single-threaded performance is still king."

Of course, "enough" fps is subjective, so there's that too.

 

[UaVaj]

So I take it you're not using anything above an i3?

no i3 here. a pentium d-950, two i5-760, and a i7-3770k

games like SC2 brings the 3770k to a crawl while the other 2 core are on vacation.

3770k becuase it has the most IPC of any current cpu. oc to 4.5 is bearly cutting 30fps when it gets heated.

instead of 4 core at 4.5. rather have 1 core at 18ghz. that will get the job done.

 

[Magic Carpet]

No, why would they?

To put all of these speculation and guesses to an end, once and for all. For good PR.

 

[UaVaj]

since we are talking about thermal solution. would gladly take a single core at 18ghz and let it be the size of a refridgerator with freezer type cooling. leave the computer in the garage and just run wires to the office. less fan noise in the office.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

To put all of these speculation and guesses to an end, once and for all. For good PR.

What % of buyers even care? They're better off if they don't risk even implying that they might have an issue to address (e.g. - something to apologize for.)

 

[Phynaz]

What % of buyers even care? They're better off if they don't risk even implying that they might have an issue to address (e.g. - something to apologize for.)

This

 

[Magic Carpet]

What % of buyers even care? They're better off if they don't risk even implying that they might have an issue to address (e.g. - something to apologize for.)

Intel doesn't want to neglect the enthusiast market which you guys seem to be part of. Communication is key.