Saturn moon (titan) has liquid on surface!

[DomS]

PASADENA, California (AP) -- At least one of many large, lake-like features on Saturn's moon Titan contains liquid hydrocarbons, making it the only body in the solar system besides Earth known to have liquid on its surface, NASA said Wednesday.

Scientists positively identified the presence of ethane, according to a statement from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, which manages the international Cassini spacecraft mission exploring Saturn, its rings and moons.

Liquid ethane is a component of crude oil.

Cassini has made more than 40 close flybys of Titan, a giant planet-sized satellite of the ringed world.

Scientists had theorized that Titan might have oceans of methane, ethane and other hydrocarbons, but Cassini found hundreds of dark, lake-like features instead, and it wasn't known at first whether they were liquid or dark, solid material, JPL's statement said.

"This is the first observation that really pins down that Titan has a surface lake filled with liquid," Bob Brown, team leader of Cassini's visual and mapping instrument, said in the statement.

The instrument was used during a December flyby to observe a feature dubbed Ontario Lacus, in the south polar region, that is about 7,800 square miles, slightly larger than North America's Lake Ontario.

Cassini reached Saturn in mid-2004 and at the end of that year launched a probe named Huygens that parachuted to the surface of Titan the following January.

The mission is a project of NASA, the European Space Agency and the Italian Space Agency.

Neat-o!


unfortunately the liquid is a component of crude oil...so in about 5 years we should have "Saturn: Sponsored by Exxonnnnn Mobil"

 

[Mxylplyx]

I'd love it if they could find a way to strip mine other planets, and thus leave ours alone. Who gives a shit if they mess up the environment on Titan.

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
I'd love it if they could find a way to strip mine other planets, and thus leave ours alone. Who gives a shit if they mess up the environment on Titan.

The Titans, remember..

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
I'd love it if they could find a way to strip mine other planets, and thus leave ours alone. Who gives a shit if they mess up the environment on Titan.

The environmental whackos will care. They don't think we should use anything that is not renewable.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
I'd love it if they could find a way to strip mine other planets, and thus leave ours alone. Who gives a shit if they mess up the environment on Titan.

The environmental whackos will care. They don't think we should use anything that is not renewable.

Not to mention, they'd likely throw a fit just because we'd be essentially strip-mining another planet. "We should seek to preserve the natural beauty of this far out worlds!" is probably what they'd scream in unison.
Look at what we can't do in Alaska because of the damn hippies. Sure, a few polar bears might need to relocate a couple hundred feet, but it's not like the refinery will be up there polluting the environment. Nah, we'd rather leave that to be done in neighborhoods. THINK OF THE CHIIIIILDREEEN! Screw polar bears if it means less asthma for little Jimmy.

But... how is this whole liquid on Titan thing... news? Haven't we known there was liquid on Titan? Just there like is wind, an atmosphere, and even rain. Whatever is the liquid on the surface is the rain. So... it rain's ethane eh? Is it ethane, or methane? For some reason I remember them proposing it was methane on the surface and in the clouds... new evidence must have pointed to it being specifically ethane.
Would that be like... acid rain to the extreme? Or is ethane not corrosive?

 

[retrospooty]

It's news because we thought the surface was ICE - like 2 miles thick. The realization that liquid exists on the surface way out there in the cold makes it even more likely that geothermal energy sources have enough to support evolving life, just like it does miles below our ocean surface where zero sunlight exists.

 

[Robor]

Amusing that a story about liquid on Titan turns into an anti-environmentalist thread. Bravo... :roll:

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Robor
Amusing that a story about liquid on Titan turns into an anti-environmentalist thread. Bravo... :roll:

When you get a hair up your ass you notice it every time you sit down.

Every robot has buttons, every program an execute command.

 

[conehead433]

Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
I'd love it if they could find a way to strip mine other planets, and thus leave ours alone. Who gives a shit if they mess up the environment on Titan.

The Sirens Of Titan might.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
It's news because we thought the surface was ICE - like 2 miles thick. The realization that liquid exists on the surface way out there in the cold makes it even more likely that geothermal energy sources have enough to support evolving life, just like it does miles below our ocean surface where zero sunlight exists.

Well, do remember that ethane has a melting point of about -182C and a boiling point of -88C. So overall, it's pretty freakin' cold on the surface. Certainly too cold for liquid water.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
It's news because we thought the surface was ICE - like 2 miles thick. The realization that liquid exists on the surface way out there in the cold makes it even more likely that geothermal energy sources have enough to support evolving life, just like it does miles below our ocean surface where zero sunlight exists.

It's news because it is now proven, not because we thought otherwise before. The possibility of liquid hydrocarbons on Titan's surface has been discussed for years (decades?).

Whether or not life is supported is still a big question mark though. Organic compounds are by no means uncommon in the universe. And it remains to be seen if life as we know it can exist in such a cold environment with no liquid water. If life does exist, it unlikely to be anything more than simple microbes.

And hey, to the rest of the thread, I don't think we'll be mining Titan for methane anytime soon as it's more than a billion miles away at closest approach. We can't even get to Mars and it's right next door in relative comparison. My guess is that by the time we do get manned missions to Titan, we won't be that worried about using simple organic chemicals as fuels.

 

[Thump553]

It's been a long time since I set foot in a chemistry class, and I had very little education in organic chemistry so forgive me if this is a dumb question; Does the presence of hydrocarbons mean that there must have been life there at some point? Can hydrocarbons form without life?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Thump553
It's been a long time since I set foot in a chemistry class, and I had very little education in organic chemistry so forgive me if this is a dumb question; Does the presence of hydrocarbons mean that there must have been life there at some point? Can hydrocarbons form without life?

Yes, hydrocarbons can form without life. If not, scientists would have a serious chicken-and-the-egg problem because it takes hydrocarbons for life to exist in the first place.
Methane is the simplest of hydrocarbons and one of the most common chemical compounds in the universe.
The easiest way to look at it is that carbon loves to bind with almost everything, but especially hydrogen and itself. All you got to do is put them together in the right conditions and bam you got methane. Methane works as a chemical fuel because the molecule stores the energy that was used to bind it, which can then be released when unbound.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: Thump553
It's been a long time since I set foot in a chemistry class, and I had very little education in organic chemistry so forgive me if this is a dumb question; Does the presence of hydrocarbons mean that there must have been life there at some point? Can hydrocarbons form without life?

AFAIK, hydrocarbons can form on their own in the right conditions - you just need some carbon dioxide or other carbon source to serve as starting material.

 

[TechBoyJK]

Originally posted by: retrospooty
It's news because we thought the surface was ICE - like 2 miles thick. The realization that liquid exists on the surface way out there in the cold makes it even more likely that geothermal energy sources have enough to support evolving life, just like it does miles below our ocean surface where zero sunlight exists.

I think you are mistaking moons. Enceladus is the moon with the thick ice shell with water beneath it. Titan is more earth like with an atmosphere, mountains, etc.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK

Originally posted by: retrospooty
It's news because we thought the surface was ICE - like 2 miles thick. The realization that liquid exists on the surface way out there in the cold makes it even more likely that geothermal energy sources have enough to support evolving life, just like it does miles below our ocean surface where zero sunlight exists.

I think you are mistaking moons. Enceladus is the moon with the thick ice shell with water beneath it. Titan is more earth like with an atmosphere, mountains, etc.

Europa also has a thick ice shell with water underneath it and sometimes breaking through the ice into giant streams that go off into space, but that's a Jovian moon and we're looking at Saturn.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK

Originally posted by: retrospooty
It's news because we thought the surface was ICE - like 2 miles thick. The realization that liquid exists on the surface way out there in the cold makes it even more likely that geothermal energy sources have enough to support evolving life, just like it does miles below our ocean surface where zero sunlight exists.

I think you are mistaking moons. Enceladus is the moon with the thick ice shell with water beneath it. Titan is more earth like with an atmosphere, mountains, etc.

Europa also has a thick ice shell with water underneath it and sometimes breaking through the ice into giant streams that go off into space, but that's a Jovian moon and we're looking at Saturn.

I contemplated a jovial response but I'm feeling too saturnine right now.

 

[DomS]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: TechBoyJK

Originally posted by: retrospooty
It's news because we thought the surface was ICE - like 2 miles thick. The realization that liquid exists on the surface way out there in the cold makes it even more likely that geothermal energy sources have enough to support evolving life, just like it does miles below our ocean surface where zero sunlight exists.

I think you are mistaking moons. Enceladus is the moon with the thick ice shell with water beneath it. Titan is more earth like with an atmosphere, mountains, etc.

Europa also has a thick ice shell with water underneath it and sometimes breaking through the ice into giant streams that go off into space, but that's a Jovian moon and we're looking at Saturn.

I contemplated a jovial response but I'm feeling too saturnine right now.

you finally said something I understand! And I got a chuckle out of it

 

[digiram]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: retrospooty
It's news because we thought the surface was ICE - like 2 miles thick. The realization that liquid exists on the surface way out there in the cold makes it even more likely that geothermal energy sources have enough to support evolving life, just like it does miles below our ocean surface where zero sunlight exists.

It's news because it is now proven, not because we thought otherwise before. The possibility of liquid hydrocarbons on Titan's surface has been discussed for years (decades?).

Whether or not life is supported is still a big question mark though. Organic compounds are by no means uncommon in the universe. And it remains to be seen if life as we know it can exist in such a cold environment with no liquid water. If life does exist, it unlikely to be anything more than simple microbes.

And hey, to the rest of the thread, I don't think we'll be mining Titan for methane anytime soon as it's more than a billion miles away at closest approach. We can't even get to Mars and it's right next door in relative comparison. My guess is that by the time we do get manned missions to Titan, we won't be that worried about using simple organic chemicals as fuels.

What if these microbs were the same ones that destroyed the Titan civiliztion, and we brought back a few samples. Sounds like a horror flick in the making.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Robor
Amusing that a story about liquid on Titan turns into an anti-environmentalist thread. Bravo... :roll:

When you get a hair up your ass you notice it every time you sit down.

Every robot has buttons, every program an execute command.

:laugh: