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Saturn ION Question

K

kevinthenerd

Platinum Member
Does anyone know the height of the center of gravity of a 2003 Saturn ION1 Sedan? It should be the same as any later model sedan and hopefully a regular QuadCoupe, but the Redline will definitely be different. I've looked on Google for hours and can't find it.
 
do some measuring or find the measuring specs online, find the math calculate the center of grav and there you go
 
The [expletive] people at Saturn said they have "no access to such information." Even as an undergradute mechanical engineering major (who is now conducting research... w00t!) knows that the center of gravity is ESSENTIAL for calculating corning, acceleration, and braking, and it's an absolute necessity in suspension geometry design. (I want to develop a product with this information.)

Saturn has it. Their unwillingness to provide it just shows that the Cg must be too high or something. Or, maybe GM wants to keep selling SUV's. If they released that for all models, they'd be screwed.
 
Originally posted by: radioouman
Put some weight in it and lower the center of gravity.
Click to expand...

not a bad idea... Circle-track racers put magnets, bearings, water, oil, etc. on the bottom of the right side of their car during checkin, and they release/dump it before/during the race to gain an edge.
 
So where can I get/find/use a scale capable of measuring weight on the order of magnitude of a car? I suppose I could make a system of levers.... 😎
 
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
So where can I get/find/use a scale capable of measuring weight on the order of magnitude of a car? I suppose I could make a system of levers.... 😎
Click to expand...


You go to a interstate highway, near the state line, where they measure the gross vehicle weight of TRUCKS that cross the line. You go when it isn't too busy, you slip the guys $50 to weigh your Saturn, and you are done.

Levers? You my friend have been in the books too long...there are always people to help you in this life that are far more useful than any machine...

Reminds me of an old sci-fi quote about mechanical devices being for losing civilizations - intelligent civilizations use slaves...now I can't think of which story that is from, probably Niven's Ringworld or similar...

Future Shock
 
Originally posted by: Future Shock
Originally posted by: kevinthenerd
So where can I get/find/use a scale capable of measuring weight on the order of magnitude of a car? I suppose I could make a system of levers.... 😎
Click to expand...


You go to a interstate highway, near the state line, where they measure the gross vehicle weight of TRUCKS that cross the line. You go when it isn't too busy, you slip the guys $50 to weigh your Saturn, and you are done.

Levers? You my friend have been in the books too long...there are always people to help you in this life that are far more useful than any machine...

Reminds me of an old sci-fi quote about mechanical devices being for losing civilizations - intelligent civilizations use slaves...now I can't think of which story that is from, probably Niven's Ringworld or similar...

Future Shock
Click to expand...

Intelligent civilizations use slaves? No, my friend... My vision of a better world is publicly funded higher education via a voucher system. This gives profit motive to schools, yet allows everyone to attend. Machines can do more physical labor than people and animals combined. This was proven when steam engines came about. People are better off as thinkers and dreamers.

As for your idea... not too bad. I don't know if it'll take all of $50, though. Those guys are probably pretty poor like me. $20 might do it. I'm sure I can find a weigh station closer than the state line. Florida is huge, and it's full of highways. I've seen quite a few in my trips around the Orlando and Tampa areas. I know someone who's driven trucks for years that I can ask.
 
Try a dump / landfill. When certain things get disposes of, people pay by weight. They have them park on a scale, weight the truck, throw you crap out, then they weigh it again to determine the price.
 
You dont need to slip anyone anything. Those weigh stations will weigh anything for whatever the toll is. However, the gross weight wont help as I'm sure that is avalible on edmunds.

To find the CG, I think you'll probably need to make some assumptions about weight distribution. The vertical CG is probably somewhere around the middle of the engine. The lateral CG could be found using a jackstand, but be careful.
 
Originally posted by: brian_riendeau
Try a dump / landfill. When certain things get disposes of, people pay by weight. They have them park on a scale, weight the truck, throw you crap out, then they weigh it again to determine the price.
Click to expand...

Bingo! I remember my mom taking a ****load of crushed soda cans to a recycling center one time for some kind of stupid school project. That's how they did it! (I didn't even get out of the car.) I'll have to ask her where it is. Maybe I can bring a soda can or two just to get them to do it for me. 😎
 
Originally posted by: dmw16
You dont need to slip anyone anything. Those weigh stations will weigh anything for whatever the toll is. However, the gross weight wont help as I'm sure that is avalible on edmunds.

To find the CG, I think you'll probably need to make some assumptions about weight distribution. The vertical CG is probably somewhere around the middle of the engine. The lateral CG could be found using a jackstand, but be careful.
Click to expand...


Let's say the Y axis goes from the front to the back of the car.
The X axis goes from driver's side to passenger's side.
The Z axis goes from the ground to the roof.

CGY is easy: just take the weight distribution off the spec sheet and put the fraction along the wheelbase. Example: 100 inch wheelbase, 60/40 distrution, CG is 40 inches behind front tires. I think my car is something like 59/41 with 103 inches, but I'll have to double check.

CGX is easy enough: just pull halfway on the scale and let the left side or right side weigh it down. Do it for both for better accuracy.

CGZ is really what I want to know the most. When you jack the car up, the change in side-to-side weight distribution is not only what causes the scale to change but also what causes the springs to move, messing up your measurements quite a bit. I'd have to find some way to fix that or add it into my calculations.
 
Well, if you have the car available, you can buy a set of pads that measure "corner weight" and go from there. They measure the weight at each tire for balancing racecars. Of course, that's spendy, but you might be able to find a local speed shop that will rent a set out.

ZV

EDIT: This will give CGX and CGY much more precisely than your methods using a larger scale or a printed spec-sheet.
 
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Well, if you have the car available, you can buy a set of pads that measure "corner weight" and go from there. They measure the weight at each tire for balancing racecars. Of course, that's spendy, but you might be able to find a local speed shop that will rent a set out.

ZV

EDIT: This will give CGX and CGY much more precisely than your methods using a larger scale or a printed spec-sheet.
Click to expand...


I didn't even know those things existed, and I read Racecar Engineering a lot! You learn something new every day!

Any different ideas for CGZ? As I said before, that's pretty much the most important one of the three.
 
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