SATA and AHCI Confusion

Supersonic64

Senior member
Jun 9, 2010
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I just got a new motherboard, a Gigabyte X58A-UDP3R. By default, the hard drives (all SATA-3) are set to IDE mode.

After installing Windows I changed the setting to AHCI in the BIOS and it corrupted the Windows install (No worries, I hadn't installed anything yet).

Now, I ask you, is IDE mode fine? If not, how do I set AHCI mode without corrupting the install?
 

Grinja

Member
Jul 31, 2007
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I just got a new motherboard, a Gigabyte X58A-UDP3R. By default, the hard drives (all SATA-3) are set to IDE mode.

After installing Windows I changed the setting to AHCI in the BIOS and it corrupted the Windows install (No worries, I hadn't installed anything yet).

Now, I ask you, is IDE mode fine? If not, how do I set AHCI mode without corrupting the install?

I had this issue back in 2007. At the time I could not find a way to Enable AHCI without re-installing windows. I ended up sticking with the IDE.

I also don't believe that there was any noticeable performance difference between the two modes but that may have changed with newer drives ...
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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I just got a new motherboard, a Gigabyte X58A-UDP3R. By default, the hard drives (all SATA-3) are set to IDE mode.

After installing Windows I changed the setting to AHCI in the BIOS and it corrupted the Windows install (No worries, I hadn't installed anything yet).

Now, I ask you, is IDE mode fine? If not, how do I set AHCI mode without corrupting the install?

AHCI will get you a few extra things like hot-plug and NCQ but the performance difference should be negligible.

And switching from one to the other doesn't corrupt the install, it just confuses Windows because it doesn't have the right storage driver installed.
 

coolVariable

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
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AHCI will get you a few extra things like hot-plug and NCQ but the performance difference should be negligible.

And switching from one to the other doesn't corrupt the install, it just confuses Windows because it doesn't have the right storage driver installed.

... which should be fine for WinVista and Win7, since both have AHCI drivers.
Only WinXP should get nuked (due to the lack of drivers which prevents you from reaching the desktop to install the drivers)
 
Nov 26, 2005
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AHCI will get you a few extra things like hot-plug and NCQ but the performance difference should be negligible.

And switching from one to the other doesn't corrupt the install, it just confuses Windows because it doesn't have the right storage driver installed.

This
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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... which should be fine for WinVista and Win7, since both have AHCI drivers.
Only WinXP should get nuked (due to the lack of drivers which prevents you from reaching the desktop to install the drivers)

"Should" being the operative word, Windows still doesn't handle hardware changes as gracefully as it should.
 

Auric

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
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Meh, I recently changed an XP installation from IDE and Standard HAL to AHCI and ACPI Multiprocessor without even using Setup Repair. But not everyone is a computar expert like me and Kim Jong-il. :sneaky:
 

Supersonic64

Senior member
Jun 9, 2010
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Well it happened with Windows 7, although I think I could have canceled the repair install but I thought I couldn't due to a BIOS setting that wouldn't let me use my USB keyboard in certain preboot menus...
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
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Users who have SSDs will see an improvement going from IDE mode to AHCI.

A bit - Mostly for NCQ and (especially) TRIM, which doesn't work in IDE mode. Not sure if the first would be noticable. But the second is worth having if you made a mistake and installed the OS to your SSD in IDE mode.
 
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taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
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IDE = Integrated Drive Electronics, originally done by WD, and included an unnamed connector which was referred to as the IDE connector, eventually evolved to ATA. Every drive has integrated controller that manages it internally for a very long time (although the earliest drives had far more simplistic controllers and internal electronics; we are talking 1970s and earlier).
Used to incorrectly refer to P/ATA when discussing a connector, and used incorrectly to describe a controller's mode of operation when meant to say legacy (non AHCI).

P/ATA = Parallel Advanced Transfer Attachment. Originally just named ATA, the Parallel was added retroactively when SATA (serial ATA) arrived).
PATA/ATA is a port used to connect to a HDD.

SATA = Serial Advanced Transfer Attachment. A port used to connect to HDD. much newer and faster than ATA.

AHCI = Advanced Host Controller Interface. The is a modern standard for communication between a drive and its controller, meant to enable new capabilities in SATA type HDDs. It allows hot plugging, NCQ, TCQ, TRIM, etc... although I have heard that some companies have managed to get TRIM over legacy controller mode.

UDMA1 through5 and PIO1 through 6 = Old standards of communications which were used via ATA connectors.

IDE Mode = Tells the motherboard to use obsolete legacy method of communicating with drives for backwards compatibility purposes. This prevents the operation of certain modern capabilities, such as hot plugging, NCQ, etc.

NCQ = Native command queuing, it enables to the drive's controller to alter the order of writes according to whatever logic it wants in order to maximize performance.
TCQ = Tagged command queuing, think of it as NCQ lite, does the same thing only not as well.

Some rare drives have extremely bad NCQ implementations (usually very old drives), they simply included it as a checkbox feature, but in fact it has lowered performance instead of increasing it. In such a drive disabling AHCI will force your mobo to communicate with the HDD in legacy mode, this will prevent NCQ from working and improve performance.
In modern drives and in SSDs you want to have AHCI enabled for the improved performance drives see with NCQ.

Also, some drives would have an NCQ strategy that would slightly decrease single thread performance but greatly improve multi thread performance, this is good because multi threaded operations are common, and are where HDD bottlenecks most frequently occurs. Those can lead people to mistakingly thinking that NCQ lowered performance because they only tested single threaded performance.
 
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erdemali

Member
May 23, 2010
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Taltamir,

Great summary for learners like myself.
I think I have to re-read to absorb it all.
Thank you so much.
 

Danube

Banned
Dec 10, 2009
613
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NCQ doesn't do anything for a single use desktop. I even once read AHCI can slow down gaming performance. In Vista Ultimate I once used AHCI and it gave me "dynamic drives" which were a real PITA.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
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NCQ doesn't do anything for a single use desktop.
Wrong, it prevents slowdowns when you have multiple things accessing the drive at once (very common, causes terrible slowdowns)

I even once read AHCI can slow down gaming performance.
Wrong, a bad controller can slow you down (which can be AHCI or legacy...) and there are specific bad controllers.
Also, a bad drive with a poor NCQ implementation (which should have just not been included) can slow you down.
But AHCI does not slow down games.

In Vista Ultimate I once used AHCI and it gave me "dynamic drives" which were a real PITA.
The two are completely unrelated. I used AHCI with vista, and now with win7... they are all "basic drives", never have I seen windows convert my drives to dynamic drives (which are indeed a pain) due to AHCI.
 

Auric

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 1999
9,591
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Hot-plugging is essentially possible due to SATA connectors. The ability to detect the presence of a drive is not limited to AHCI mode and even then hot-swap is not necessarily automatic, depends upon driver capability and likely still requires user interaction to remove safely. So in that sense it is not practically different than IDE mode which can likewise hot-swap.
 

Danube

Banned
Dec 10, 2009
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Wrong, it prevents slowdowns when you have multiple things accessing the drive at once (very common, causes terrible slowdowns)


Wrong, a bad controller can slow you down (which can be AHCI or legacy...) and there are specific bad controllers.
Also, a bad drive with a poor NCQ implementation (which should have just not been included) can slow you down.
But AHCI does not slow down games.


The two are completely unrelated. I used AHCI with vista, and now with win7... they are all "basic drives", never have I seen windows convert my drives to dynamic drives (which are indeed a pain) due to AHCI.

Still don't agree. The average single user just doesn't have that many things going on to make the hassle of ACHI worth it. Maybe on a server it makes more sense (same with the swapping in most cases).

Only Windows Vista Enterprise and Windows Vista Ultimate (which I use) editions support dynamic disks so if you didn't use those that may explain why you never had an issue. I must have installed the OS 10 times in 2 years and the one time I used AHCI it gave me dynamic disks and when I reinstalled after that I couldn't access the data drives I always left intact on other reinstalls with no problem.

ACHI for single user is a baby's breath away from meaningless
 
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Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
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Still don't agree. The average single user just doesn't have that many things going on to make the hassle of ACHI worth it. Maybe on a server it makes more sense (same with the swapping in most cases).

You'd be surprised how many different processes submit I/O during normal usage and if it's possible to submit several of those I/Os at once and let the hard disk merge, reorder, etc them for performance why wouldn't you? The difference may be small in some cases but why actively work at removing it?

Only Windows Vista Enterprise and Windows Vista Ultimate (which I use) editions support dynamic disks so if you didn't use those that may explain why you never had an issue. I must have installed the OS 10 times in 2 years and the one time I used AHCI it gave me dynamic disks and when I reinstalled after that I couldn't access the data drives I always left intact on other reinstalls with no problem.

You may be thinking of a GUID Partition Table. All versions of Windows that I'm aware of support dynamic disks. And regardless, you may have to jump through some hoops to do it but the data is still there and can be accessed.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
ACHI for single user is a baby's breath away from meaningless

AHCI merely enables new features, as it is a more modern communication protocol.
I think you mean to say NCQ. And NCQ is very useful, I personally benchmarked it to make huge differences, and I personally noticed huge differences in my day to day activities.

Also, there is no "hassle" to it since windows vista. you merely install your OS and it works.
Whenever I switch mobos I have to configure the bios settings anyways, I simply configure it to work in AHCI mode instead of legacy, put in the windows install DVD, and install it. no extra work required.
 

Fayd

Diamond Member
Jun 28, 2001
7,970
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www.manwhoring.com
i dont get it.

how are dynamic disks a pain?

how is AHCI a pain?

how is NCQ useless?


depending on what you do on your computer, they all could be unnoticeable or very useful. and it's not like dynamic disks or AHCI are hard to set up or administer.
 

coolVariable

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
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Well - if you have an AMD system you probably want to keep a safe distance from AHCI since performance with AHCI just sux! (unless you enjoy your system 'choking' on simple tasks that even 5+ year old machines don't have a problem with)