Sapphire ATI X800XT

[imported_Aelius]

So I order an ATI X800XT video card cause it's *gasp* available. (this was 2 weeks ago)

I got it just last week and opened the box to find an ATI X800XT video card.

My first thoughts were... "why the heck is it saying XT instead of XT PE" and "why does it have a red PCB and the ATI minotaur sticker on the cooler".

I did a little research and found that the week before Sapphire ran out of the XT PE cards and switched them with XT cards that didn't quite make the cut to be "PE" cards.

What's the Bait and Switch?

1. Sapphire never said a word to anybody.

2. Up to the week before everybody including Sapphire, ASUS, PowerColor, VisionTek, DFI etc. all refered to the XTPE as the XT and the XT as the XTPE. If you go to any retailer you will still be able to find links on a retailer's website that lists an X800XT to ASUS' XT PE video card on the ASUS site.

3. Sapphire never really said what would be in the box either way, except that they detailed that it would be an XT card and it would consist of either a lite or full retail package.

4. What you actually received in the package can be quite different then even their "lite" and "full" package that is listed on their site.

5. And of course they ran out of the XTPE cards and decided to switch them with XT cards that have likely failed to meet the PE requirements for the core and/or memory.


You might say "so what, you get what you pay for"... well not quite sports fans cause they never changed the price either. I guess that would be #6.

I mean seriously; how would you feel if you went out and purchased a Porsche 911 Turbo and found out when you got it that they left out the turbo charged engine.

What's worse?

Apparently Sapphire was caught a few months back not labling their ATI 9800Pro video cards with the correct "bit" version so some got neutered Pro cards. It has since been renamed after a public outcry.

Yes sir a sure way to win a life long customer is to screw them over.

Thank you but it has been my very first and very last Sapphire video card.

P.S. The "lite" and "full" retail packaging refers to the software you get. Sadly the software included changes with each box and appears to have squat to do with the "lite" or "full" retail designation. For reference mine was "full" retail.

P.P.S. My video card came with VIVO dispite the ATI minotaur sticker on the cooler and 1.6ns memory that is standard for XTPE and is usually also found on Pro (VIVO) cards.

 

[5150Joker]

Wow that really sucks and I'd be extremely pissed if I were in your place as well. You should demand either a full refund or partial refund to make up for the difference in price. The X800XT itself is a very good card and you will likely see little to no difference in performance with it compared to the XT PE so you might want to consider keeping it if they go for a partial refund.

 

[imported_Aelius]

I should be getting the last item for my new system today... maybe. Once my motherboard arrives I will attempt to try the video card in the system and see if it works. If not it's getting an RMA and I'm not getting Sapphire again.

If it works I'll email Sapphire and demand the card I paid for.

I got nothing better to do so if that doesn't work I'm more than willing to file against them in small claims court. It costs nothing to me and forces them to at least address the issue.

Will keep you updated.

P.S. The last time Sapphire was quite reasonable with people, they replaced cards and correctly used labling from that point on, so I will be reasonable with them but I'm not frightened the slightest by a big name and quite willing to take it to the next level. I just can't sue them cause I don't have any money. All my money went to pay for the video card.

 

[LTC8K6]

So I order an ATI X800XT video card cause it's *gasp* available. (this was 2 weeks ago)

I got it just last week and opened the box to find an ATI X800XT video card.

Hmmmmm...you ordered an XT and you got an XT and you are upset?

 

[gururu]

they'll replace it no problem.

BUT, I think getting VIVO and the fast memory is BETTER than an xtpe.
1) it'll likely overclock
2) VIVO rocks

 

[caz67]

Keep the card, and overclock it..If not then send it back, and wait another 2 or 3 mths..???

 

[Brian48]

Originally posted by: caz67
Keep the card, and overclock it..If not then send it back, and wait another 2 or 3 mths..???

Yeah, you can o/c it, but considering the PE is only 20mhz higher, I don't think it really matters. I think it's more the principle here than any real loss to expected performance. At the very minimum, Sapphire should apologize for the confusion.

 

[amheck]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

So I order an ATI X800XT video card cause it's *gasp* available. (this was 2 weeks ago)

I got it just last week and opened the box to find an ATI X800XT video card.

Hmmmmm...you ordered an XT and you got an XT and you are upset?

 

[ggnl]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6

So I order an ATI X800XT video card cause it's *gasp* available. (this was 2 weeks ago)

I got it just last week and opened the box to find an ATI X800XT video card.

Hmmmmm...you ordered an XT and you got an XT and you are upset?

I'm confused too. Can someone please clarify this:

"Up to the week before everybody including Sapphire, ASUS, PowerColor, VisionTek, DFI etc. all refered to the XTPE as the XT and the XT as the XTPE. If you go to any retailer you will still be able to find links on a retailer's website that lists an X800XT to ASUS' XT PE video card on the ASUS site."

Are you saying that the retailers misidentified the cards and the XTs are really supposed to be XT PEs?

 

[Lonyo]

I don't see an X800XT PE currently listed on the Sapphire website, only an X800XT.
Unless they changed the website in the last week. (Could have been done).

If you ordered an XT PE from a retailer, and they had kept the price the same, your issue should be with the retailer, and not Sapphire.
If the retailer is selling XT's and saying they are PE's, then the retail is at fault.

 

[nitromullet]

The confusion here is that there used to not be such a thing as a "vanilla" XT in AGP. There was only supposed to be a differentiation between XT and XT PE with the PCIe versions. All the AGP XT's were also PE's, so XT and XT PE were interchangeable. However, ATI silently launched the AGP version of the "vanilla" XT with a slightly lower clockspeed than the XT PE.

Edit: to the OP, are you sure it isn't running at PE speeds? It seems that you havne't installed it yet... Also, can you post UPC and part numbers to help others out as well?

 

[nitromullet]

bump...

So, how did this turn out? Did you get an XT or an XT PE...?

 

[imported_Aelius]

Sorry I haven't posted but I was off work and didn't have a working computer and was waiting for the motherboard.

I finally got my motherboard Wed morning *yay* and got as far as installing the OS. Thankfully everything worked. I even got the BIOS boot up that usually does not work with the new Apple Cinema Display that I got.

I haven't been able to test anything beyond the fact that I turned on the computer, it worked, and the OS installed without issues.

I'm once again at work and I can't drag my computer in here cause I managed to install an XP-120 HSF on the MSI K8N Neo2 Plat that is supposedly "not compatible" anymore with my motherboard. Funny story that but I'll leave that for another thread. Anyway that thing is kind of big... so big that it bent a capacitor with one of the heat pipes. Everything is working right now but I'm too scared to move the case outside of working on it at home cause it might snap that capacitor off like a toothpick and then I'm screwed.

My first impression is awe. As soon as the BIOS worked I wanted the keep the video card.

I'm still going to email Sapphire and bitch and complain. I have every right to at least as what they promised would be in the box (software) that was missing.

Mostly I'm looking for an appology and for them to change the labling of the box to reflect what's actually in the box and not what "might" be in the box.

Edit: Oh yeah I forgot.... I'll have a chance to test the core later today and I should be able to post from my new rig.

 

[Pete]

A few questions, mainly because the plain XT AGP was formally announced and released as a separate product a short while ago (though not two weeks ago, and obviously not everyone ran a separate review of the card).

1. How much did you pay?
2. Where'd you order it from?
3. Did the store's product page specify name (XT/XTPE) and clocks (500/500 or 520/560)?

Wait ... are you saying you got a Sapphire box that says XTPE, but a card that's a plain XT? I guess that doesn't matter as much as what your order page specified, but it's worth noting.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Originally posted by: Pete
A few questions, mainly because the plain XT AGP was formally announced and released as a separate product a short while ago (though not two weeks ago, and obviously not everyone ran a separate review of the card).

1. How much did you pay?
2. Where'd you order it from?
3. Did the store's product page specify name (XT/XTPE) and clocks (500/500 or 520/560)?

Wait ... are you saying you got a Sapphire box that says XTPE, but a card that's a plain XT? I guess that doesn't matter as much as what your order page specified, but it's worth noting.

1. I paid $754.84 (CAN) for the card before taxes or shipping. I paid only GST, not PST.

2. I got the card from Canada's largest online retailer which is NCIX. NCIX already said they won't replace the cards as it's not their responsibility and never guaranteed any speeds and only listed them as XT yada yada yada yada...

3. Store only said it was XT and did not specify any speed. Someone asked NCIX if they chose what to put on the page or the company does and NCIX answered that they go by what the company describes the product as, not them. Hence liability rests solely on the manufacturer.

If the issue was that cut and dry I wouldn't be posting here. I'm not an idiot who runs out and buys hardware just like that.

The order page on many sites listed various X800XTs that were obviously XTPEs. Some still list the ASUS XTPE as the XT on the retail page that links to a the XTPE page on ASUS' website. On top of that several people mentioned on various sites, including the retailer site I got the card from, that they received the XTPE card when purchasing the Sapphire retail box.

It was a plain known fact that Sapphire was shipping XTPE cards in their XT retail boxes. However they suddenly stopped doing that a few weeks before I purchased my card. If you take shipping time into consideration it's not a stretch to realize that word doesn't get around fast enough for everyone to see it. It took me just after my video card shipped to find out that I "might" get an XT card and not an XTPE.

 

[ronnn]

Yes I was also following the NCIX sale of that card. I almost bought one of the first they had in stock and those were xt pe's. Just a couple of weeks ago they suddenly turned into plain xt's. I think NCIX has something to answer for - as those cards are not cheap. NCIX was also slow to identify the 128bit 9800 pros. Saffire also seems a little flakey lately.

 

[imported_Aelius]

Yeah I'm not very pleased at all, but this is the first time ever that I put a computer togeather and everything worked when I pushed the power button. Let me tell you it's a big rock off my shoulder.

Gota wait 200 hours for the AS5 to burn in on my system and then I will start to OC the CPU, RAM and if I decide to keep the video card or sapphire doesn't provide me with a replacement then I'll OC the vid card as well.

I should be able to test the vid card out today so I will be able to provide #s for the Core and Memory.

I won't hold my breath. I expect to see 500/500.

 

[MegaWorks]

You should have bought it from bigfootcomputers. Bigfoot clearly says that there is some confusion between the XT and the XT PE.

Special Note: There is some confusion about different versions of the x800 XT, specifically a "Standard" XT, and a "Platinum Edition". ALL x800 XT's are denoted as "Platinum Edition", and at this time a "Standard" XT does not exist. So rest assured, the XT you buy from Bigfoot is a "Platinum Edition". The following is a note from ATi:

- Regarding different versions of the X800 series:
ATI will be offering the X800 Pro and X800 XT PE. There is no information available at this time on any other models. With regard to our "Powered by ATI" partners, these partners have the ability to change the nomenclature of our products should they wish. We have no information at this time regarding products our partners will be manufacturing.

I personally don't like NCIX!

 

[rbV5]

BUT, I think getting VIVO and the fast memory is BETTER than an xtpe.
1) it'll likely overclock
2) VIVO rocks

X800XT PE cards are all VIVO cards.

 

[HumblePie]

First off, I'll let you in on a secret Aelius.... the built by ATI x800 pro VIVO (the ones with the rage theatre chip on the back, yellow connector on the side, and 1.6ns memory), x800XT and x800XT PE are ALL THE SAME THING!!! The only "difference" is the price and the shipping bios!!! The x800pro has a bios that locks it down to 12 pipes and a default clock setting of 475/450., the XT has a default clock of 500/500 and the XT PE has a default of 520/560. Beyond that they are exactly the same...

I have verified this by comparing my flashed ATI x800 pro VIVO card to my friends "natural" x800XT PE he just bought yesterday at compusa. He was pissed after we compared out cards. The cooling on both at stock is the same, same pcb, same layout, same chips, same everything. Only difference is mine is $400 MSRP and his is $500. He went back to swap it out with the VIVO they had so he didn't hit with that restocking fee.

The only reason I would pay more for an XT PE right now is if it had some special cooling on it that made it worth the difference in price. As such, I don't think sapphire screwed you over. They DID send you an XT PE card... just with a lower default clock rating which you can change easily enough.

 

[imported_Aelius]

HumblePie,

Thanks for your input. I think that clears it up and explains this whole mess fully.

I checked mine out and the core says 499.5Mhz/499.5Mhz.

It works so for better or for worse I'm keeping the card.

I did buy an ATI Silencer4 with it for a good reason. It's going on the card, if I can figure out how to install it. After that I'll OC it and see how far it will go.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: rbV5

BUT, I think getting VIVO and the fast memory is BETTER than an xtpe.
1) it'll likely overclock
2) VIVO rocks

X800XT PE cards are all VIVO cards.

Whatever - as long as it comes as an X800XT then you don't have to void your warranty by flashing it.



I'd keep the card and be happy. They're rare and expensive here in Canada; no point b!tching about getting an X800XT vs an X800XT PE; the difference between the two is marginal, and the X800XT regular still smokes the X800 Pro.

 

[teddy07x]

hey buddy,
I'm not trying to be an asshole with you.
but you bought an X800XT and you got an X800XT that never made it as an XTPE. what's the big deal?

the XT clearly says it has 500/500 everywhere you look.
and the PE 520/560, I think you're better off with that card.
'cuase you're more likely to get XTPE speeds with the 1.6ns mem.
and the core has to make 530 or 530 I believe to make it as a PE card.
so you can safely clock it to 520/560, you could even flash the bios on it and get a fully working XTPE.

Besides, if you don'tknow how to install a Silencer4 you prolly shouldn't take on Sapphire. You got what you paid for. and even more.

 

[MegaWorks]

Originally posted by: teddy07x
hey buddy,
I'm not trying to be an asshole with you.
but you bought an X800XT and you got an X800XT that never made it as an XTPE. what's the big deal?

the XT clearly says it has 500/500 everywhere you look.
and the PE 520/560, I think you're better off with that card.
'cuase you're more likely to get XTPE speeds with the 1.6ns mem.
and the core has to make 530 or 530 I believe to make it as a PE card.
so you can safely clock it to 520/560, you could even flash the bios on it and get a fully working XTPE.

Besides, if you don'tknow how to install a Silencer4 you prolly shouldn't take on Sapphire. You got what you paid for. and even more.

WOW! dude relax, he wanted the XT PE and not XT! I would be pissed if I got XT instead of XT PE.