Santorum: McCain "doesn't understand" torture

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
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Undergoing some form of torture decades go does not mean he really does understand what they do now, though.
 

Carmen813

Diamond Member
May 18, 2007
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Right, because experience is less than opinion. Watch the movie Return with Honor to learn about Hanoi Hilton to get an idea of what John McCain went through. It will also give you an idea about the quality of information that is given by a "broken" individual. People will say anything to make torture stop. It disgusts me that a person who advocates "breaking" people for information is even on the list of potential Presidential nominees.

Enhanced interrogation is simply the politically correct term for torture. It is utterly disgraceful that anyone in this country supports it. Any conservative/liberal advocating for it does not deserve that label. Torture is anti-thematic to core American ideals about freedom and the right to due process. It used to be something everyone agreed about until bullshit about its effectiveness started getting spewed from neoconservative ideologues.

I could go on and on about the travesty that is torture, but fact is that those who support it will never change their mind. At least not until they put their money where their mouth is and do what this guy did.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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And another GOP hopeful shows the world what an idiotic fucktard he is...

McCain is ignorant about a lot of things but the use of torture isn't one of them.

Nice of Santorum to scuttle his already slim chances though, Palin and Bachmann already bring enough stupid to the table.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
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The country would be better off without Santorum genuflecting his way around the country running for president. As religious nutcases come, he's among the nuttiest.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Strangely Santorum never used the word "torture"

Love how the media spins things.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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From the actual transcript of the show:
"torture" not found
HH: Now your former colleague, John McCain, said look, there’s no record, there’s no evidence here that these methods actually led to the capture or the killing of bin Laden. Do you disagree with that? Or do you think he’s got an argument?
RS: I don’t, everything I’ve read shows that we would not have gotten this information as to who this man was if it had not been gotten information from people who were subject to enhanced interrogation. And so this idea that we didn’t ask that question while Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was being waterboarded, he doesn’t understand how enhanced interrogation works. I mean, you break somebody, and after they’re broken, they become cooperative. And that’s when we got this information. And one thing led to another, and led to another, and that’s how we ended up with bin Laden. That seems to be clear from all the information I read. Maybe McCain has better information than I do, but from what I’ve seen, it seems pretty clear that but for these cooperative witnesses who were cooperative as a result of enhanced interrogations, we would not have gotten bin Laden.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
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Strangely Santorum never used the word "torture"

Love how the media spins things.

How DARE you try to defend his behavior by nitpicking words. I don't agree with you often, but even I thought you were better than this.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Exactly right. He used the current favorite euphemism instead.
It doesn't matter.

What CBS did was dishonest. The reporter is suppose to report the details of the story and not decide for themselves that the term "enhanced interrogation" is the same as torture.

I don't hear anyone in the MSM accusing us of invading Pakistan when we went after Osama, and yet what we did was essentially the same thing as an invasion.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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How DARE you try to defend his behavior by nitpicking words. I don't agree with you often, but even I thought you were better than this.
Perhaps you should read the quote.

BTW what Santorum said was pretty stupid. He should have found a better way to phrase it than what he did. But it is irrelevant anyway. Santorum can't even win in his home state, he has no chance of winning the nomination.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
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It doesn't matter.

What CBS did was dishonest. The reporter is suppose to report the details of the story and not decide for themselves that the term "enhanced interrogation" is the same as torture.

I don't hear anyone in the MSM accusing us of invading Pakistan when we went after Osama, and yet what we did was essentially the same thing as an invasion.

Uhmmm, it actually IS up to them to determine those sorts of things. Journalism does not equal stenography. If the media in America could learn one thing, it would be that.

The techniques that Santorum is referring to were described by the US media, US culture, and the rest of the world as torture for decades. The only time it was changed to this new 'enhanced interrogation' euphemism was after a concerted (and largely successful) effort by the previous administration to redefine the definition of torture. A journalist electing not to use someone's politically crafted term entirely designed to disguise the actions being taken is GOOD journalism.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
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It doesn't matter.

What CBS did was dishonest. The reporter is suppose to report the details of the story and not decide for themselves that the term "enhanced interrogation" is the same as torture.

I don't hear anyone in the MSM accusing us of invading Pakistan when we went after Osama, and yet what we did was essentially the same thing as an invasion.


I hope I don't see a post from you here railing against "politically correct" speech because that is exactly what the bullshit term "enhanced interrogation" is. It's especially ironic that you rail about the Pakistan "invasion" when the US took out Osama (an invasion that lasted what, three hours max & involved under 50 soldiers) when your idol GWB got on his high horse so much when Iraq was correctly labeled an invasion.

It's truly sad that fringe nutjobs like Santorum, Bachmann and Palin are considered main stream Republicans these days.
 
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ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
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Obama's healthcare plan is form of socialism, and yet the media never calls it that, why not?
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
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Obama's healthcare plan is form of socialism, and yet the media never calls it that, why not?

Because it's not. If there had been a public option, perhaps it would be. But it's less socialistic than medicare or medicaid. So why call something less socialistic than an existing program socialism? The current grossly overly conservative right doesn't even begin to understand what socialism is. They're labeling what 20 years ago would have been called far right in this nation as socialism. Just because some of the country has gone batshit insane (tea party) doesn't mean the rest has to.
 

Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
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Obama's healthcare plan is form of socialism, and yet the media never calls it that, why not?

So is medicare and SSN. Yet we have all these old fart republicans on the streets saying down with OBama and his socialism but don't touch my medicare......

The republican party represents hypocrisy. At least the democrats are doing what they believe is the right thing to do even though I completely disagree with their solutions.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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McCain is a treasonous coward and Santorum is another Bush. Nuff said.

Hardly.
John McCain may be senile, hypocritical, even ignorant, but he is not a coward. Party loyalty was what made him roll over for Bush all those years ago, not fear over confronting a nepotistic frat boy asshole. It did make him look spineless though.

Bush was the coward, and has on countless occasions said things that make Rick here seem like a damn Rhodes scholar.

I'm curious as to what action of McCain's you consider treasonous, was he involved in Cantor's group of traitors who vowed to put Israel's defense and interests above those of our own country?
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
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I'm curious as to what action of McCain's you consider treasonous, was he involved in Cantor's group of traitors who vowed to put Israel's defense and interests above those of our own country?

Enemy Belligerent Act

Anyone who supports, introduces or entertains invoking such unconstitutional nonsense should be brought up on charges of treason.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
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What CBS did was dishonest. The reporter is suppose to report the details of the story and not decide for themselves that the term "enhanced interrogation" is the same as torture.

Santorum was an idiot for even saying that... but you do have a point. McCain endured torture. The North Vietnamese weren't concerned with not inflicting permanent physical harm (that is why McCain cannot raise his arms above his head). Just read some of the accounts of what these POW's in Vietnam went through. Not saying waterboarding is a walk in the park... but at least with waterboarding you are walking away with all your body parts intact.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,671
52,475
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Santorum was an idiot for even saying that... but you do have a point. McCain endured torture. The North Vietnamese weren't concerned with not inflicting permanent physical harm (that is why McCain cannot raise his arms above his head). Just read some of the accounts of what these POW's in Vietnam went through. Not saying waterboarding is a walk in the park... but at least with waterboarding you are walking away with all your body parts intact.

Waterboarding has been defined as torture the world over (including by the US government until quite recently) for decades if not centuries. It has its roots in the Spanish Inquisition.

Are there worse forms of torture? Sure. Other torture being worse doesn't make waterboarding not torture.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
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Undergoing some form of torture decades go does not mean he really does understand what they do now, though.
You're probably right.
My mom was pregnant once but that was like 30 years ago so she probably doesn't know shit about how it works these days. There are some things like torture or riding a bike that you forget after a couple years.


In any event, waterboardering doesn't count as torture because it's not the worst. For example, my beating the hell out of my kids doesn't count as child abuse because someone out there locks their child in a cage and doesn't feed them for a week. Make sense?
 

NoStateofMind

Diamond Member
Oct 14, 2005
9,711
6
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Waterboarding has been defined as torture the world over (including by the US government until quite recently) for decades if not centuries. It has its roots in the Spanish Inquisition.

Are there worse forms of torture? Sure. Other torture being worse doesn't make waterboarding not torture.

That topic was put through the ringer on this forum circa '07/'08. It was torture then and its torture now.
 

Fear No Evil

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2008
5,922
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I'm pro-torture. If I ever become a terrorist I agree to be tortured for information, so I am not being hypocritical in any way.