Sanity check? 2004 S600 $16k, XF supercharged $20k

[yh125d]

So I just paid off my Focus ST and have been thinking for awhile now about buying a second car. The Focus is a great DD for me, so the floor has been kind of wide open for consideration. I've considered strictly utilitarian (used midsize 4WD SUV/Truck), hobby (240z/280z to work on), pure fun (GT350), and I've also considered "moving up" in the world to a powerful RWD sedan of some type (550i or similar).

While looking around, I stumbled upon this http://goo.gl/eQbWOB

A 2004 MB S600 w/Lorinser mods, 92k miles for $15.9k - in my small town. Now I don't know anything about old S-class or Lorinser, but this seems really cheap for what it is even at 11 years old. If we assume for the moment that what the seller says is true (full maintenance/records, drives well, in very good shape, very clean), is this something I should even be considering?

I know in general buying old German cars can wind up being a big bother and a money pit, but does anyone have any knowledge about this gen S class? I plan to keep the focus either way so I have a reliable every day car, and being single I have some disposable income so long as it's reasonable.

I can't really tell if this is a terrible idea or a good one. On one hand, if I can't get the next 50-60k miles out of it without paying less than $5k on maintenance, it's probably a waste. On the other hand, sub $16k for a modern S class with a twin turbo V12 sounds like a dream come true of sorts for a gear head. And really, even if it isn't quite a good idea financially, I'm single and in my 20s, if there's a time to be a little ambitious, this might be it.

Thoughts?


And for a less exciting but probably wiser option - I've also found a 2009 Jag XF supercharged with 65k miles for $20k. It's not quite a twin turbo V12, but I think I could make do with the measly 420HP. Much better looking too, and probably more reliable.

 

[MegaFlop]

I bought a A6 2.7T (used ~60k miles).. That was the worst car mistake I ever made. I think I was $5K in maintenance the first year and I had a extended warranty.

Never going the used German route again.

So my recommendation would be CTS-V, or maybe a Pontiac G8 if you can get a hold of one.

Edit: (I also put quite a few miles on a 300C SRT-8 and had zero problems with it. So that would definitely be worth checking out as well)

 

[AdamK47]

VF Commodore

 

[leper84]

100k miles for 16K on a german car?

Have fun with that....

 

[tsupersonic]

If you buy a used German car, either be prepared to open your wallet, and I don't mean repairs that will cost hundreds (you'll have these too), but think thousands, or be very prepared to learn how to fix these cars.

I bought a used CLS 63 AMG with 60k miles. I thought I got the bargain of a century (this was my 25 year old brain), but I was wrong. The car was absolutely amazing to drive (probably my favorite car I've owned), but good God, the repairs. Even regular maintenance wasn't fun. Jaguars are also not known for their reliability...I'd consider that even worse than Germans (up there w/ Land Rover).

 

[jagec]

I bought a A6 2.7T (used ~60k miles).. That was the worst car mistake I ever made. I think I was $5K in maintenance the first year and I had a extended warranty.

At least it wasn't the 4.2:

Timing chain design that's a Euclidean nightmare, and being VAG they used crappy plastic guides and tensioners that break. So...major engine-out service for you!

 

[yh125d]

If you buy a used German car, either be prepared to open your wallet, and I don't mean repairs that will cost hundreds (you'll have these too), but think thousands, or be very prepared to learn how to fix these cars.

I bought a used CLS 63 AMG with 60k miles. I thought I got the bargain of a century (this was my 25 year old brain), but I was wrong. The car was absolutely amazing to drive (probably my favorite car I've owned), but good God, the repairs. Even regular maintenance wasn't fun. Jaguars are also not known for their reliability...I'd consider that even worse than Germans (up there w/ Land Rover).

I know that's definitely historically true, but I had heard that the new modern models were for the most part significantly better than Jags of old, does that not hold up?


A 2nd Gen CTS-V would also very much be in the running, but judging by the used market in my area, noone bought the manual which I think I would really really want in that car. I've also considered a ATS 3.6 (I've seen multiples under 50k miles, with AWD for less than $30k), but it's not really enough bigger or faster than my Focus to really be worth the effort

 

[slag]

100k miles for 16K on a german car?

Have fun with that....

It's not a VW, its a Mercedes. It will be fine.

 

[NutBucket]

Actually no, no it won't. It may not fail as much but the maintenance is a nightmare.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Actually no, no it won't. It may not fail as much but the maintenance is a nightmare.

My boss has a CLS550 and he had a problem with his front suspension (air suspension) that cost him almost $3k to fix. It is NOT a cheap car to own and I suspect that V12 will cost a lot more in maintenance. Add in the fact that it is modded and you'll likely run into other problems that Mercedes may not even touch because of the mods.

Personally, I'd steer clear of a modded Merc and look for one that is stock.

 

[NAC]

I think the question is – are you comfortable with the risk? Say there is a 60% chance the car will go for 50k miles with needing 2k to 5k in repairs. And there is a 10% chance repairs will be even less, and a 30% chance repairs will be above 5k. How comfortable are you with that?

The cost of these repairs are already in the purchase price. This is a nice car with a 700hp V12. For less than a price of some used Honda Civics. Why? Not because people can't afford it – but because they don't want to deal with the risk. Let's say over 3 years, you put $16k in repairs into the car and later sell it for $12k. So the car would cost you $20k to own for 3 years. That is no different than leasing a new BMW . But this one is arguably a nicer car, and there is a good chance it will actually be much cheaper. And your loses are actually capped at perhaps $11k… lets say the engine detonates, you can immediately sell the car for - I dunno - $5k without a working engine.

You only live once, if the car really interests you, I would go for it. Or find something similar but stock which will have lower risk.

For what it's worth – I had an S4 for I think 4 years, with the crazy 40 valve V8 with the timing chain pictured above. I think I put on about 40k miles, I believe it was a bit over 100k miles when I sold it. It ate up tires and brakes (and gas), but I don't remember it needing a single repair. I got lucky, but I honestly don't believe the risk was huge that there would be a big problem.

 

[Beer4Me]

hahahaahah Do it!!!! ahaahahahahaah

 

[shabby]

At least it wasn't the 4.2:

Timing chain design that's a Euclidean nightmare, and being VAG they used crappy plastic guides and tensioners that break. So...major engine-out service for you!

Wow, at what rpm is that kidney shaped chain spinning?

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

I'd love a supercharged Gen1 XF.
Same DEW98 platform as my LS

 

[jlee]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2404639

 

[yh125d]

So is it something you're still generally considering? I'm handy but not as much as you I'm sure. I can do stuff like coils myself but I wouldn't really trust myself with any of the suspension bits. This example is a good bit more than the examples you're looking at too, but I'm not sure how much value the lorinser bits add over stock.

I think I've just about got myself talked out of doing anything real soon, but keeping an eye on things. Who knows, there probably isn't a big market for these cars in my area, so it might be around for awhile and the owner might be interested to haggle more in a month. Or a manual CTS-V might pop up.

 

[jlee]

I ended up in a snowy region and bought a Mazdaspeed6. I am still toying with an S600 eventually, but not anytime soon.

 

[angminas]

On one hand, if I can't get the next 50-60k miles out of it without paying less than $5k on maintenance, it's probably a waste.

You would probably need a decent helping of luck to get 60k miles for $5k. Sounds like the risk on this is out of your acceptable range.

On the other hand, sub $16k for a modern S class with a twin turbo V12 sounds like a dream come true of sorts for a gear head.

It can be, if you up your repair budget. The reason those cars are so cheap is because nobody wants to repair them. Many people who want those cars are focused on image, and they'd rather spend (sometimes a lot more) money on something new. I'd say either jump in with both feet or take a pass, but $5k just isn't enough to give you the sense of security you're looking for.

And really, even if it isn't quite a good idea financially, I'm single and in my 20s, if there's a time to be a little ambitious, this might be it.

More like a lot ambitious, but that's not necessarily a reason to take a pass. If you triple your maintenance budget (and it's in as good shape as they're making it sound), you're still getting a hell of a car for $30k. I think that's the question you should be asking yourself- not whether it's worth it for $20k, but whether it's worth it for $30k.

 

[core2slow]

I would avoid early-mid 2000s big german motors at all cost.

Between your 2 options, I'd get the XF over the s600.

 

[BurnItDwn]

The bigger/cooler the engine, the more complex it is, the more precise it has to be, and the more you are going to be fixing it.

If you are a good mechanic, and you love fixing cars, then, you may have met met your match.

If you are rich, and you like to spend lots of money fixing cars that cost very little to acquire up front, then , go for it.

If you are on a tight budget and you want a fancy/exciting car and you are amazed at the great deal you are finding on a 100K car, then run like hell.

 

[jlee]

The bigger/cooler the engine, the more complex it is, the more precise it has to be, and the more you are going to be fixing it.

If you are a good mechanic, and you love fixing cars, then, you may have met met your match.

If you are rich, and you like to spend lots of money fixing cars that cost very little to acquire up front, then , go for it.

If you are on a tight budget and you want a fancy/exciting car and you are amazed at the great deal you are finding on a 100K car, then run like hell.

From the research I've done, the engines are remarkably solid. Suspension repair is likely where your money will go.

 

[MikeMAN]

Wow, at what rpm is that kidney shaped chain spinning?

For what its worth, I did get tensioner noise from that motor...(I believe its the B6 S4 Audi 4.2 V8), but always told myself, if it explodes...it was cheaper to replace the whole motor. Needless to say, I had 260k on mine and sold it....still running strong to this day!! (2004 B6 Audi S4)

 

[nk215]

I have two German cars bmw and a porsche. They are expensive to maintain just because the wear items. Around 2k/year per car is typical. If anything break then the bill goes up to the $3+k range. Things that seem easy to do on other cars are just un-needed complicated in German cars. It's not fun to work on German cars so I don't really do much DIY works on them. Old American Classic and Jeeps are fun to work on.

 

[slag]

I have two German cars bmw and a porsche. They are expensive to maintain just because the wear items. Around 2k/year per car is typical. If anything break then the bill goes up to the $3+k range. Things that seem easy to do on other cars are just un-needed complicated in German cars. It's not fun to work on German cars so I don't really do much DIY works on them. Old American Classic and Jeeps are fun to work on.

I don't get this at all. Having owned a VW and now a BMW, there are plenty of places to get cheap parts for these cars (pelican parts, autohauz, ecs tuning, etc) that are OEM or better quality.

They aren't that much more difficult to work on either and are the same level of effort for most things. The better you maintain it, the more fun it is to drive. You might say the Vanos system on a BMW is a pita to repair and it is an item that will need new seals at a minimum. Counterpoint to that is, have you ever tried to change a starter on a ford pinto? Major PITA to do so. Point is, every car has something that is a pain to do on it. German, Japanese, American, Korean, whatever. I think the idea that German cars are more expensive to work on and require more work is a sort of misnomer personally or, at least in my experience, has not proven to be true.

 

[thomsbrain]

Jalopnik loves to post about these "bulletproof" european luxury car deals, but if you read between the lines, you'll see these writers are only keeping the cars for a year before they pass the hot-potato to someone else, AND they still had to fix serious issues which were only mitigated because they happened to be better-than-average DIY mechanics.

Every time I get tempted by one, I remember you can get a Lexus LS of the same vintage for equal or less money. The LS is nearly as nice and instead of being unreliable and extremely expensive to fix, it's one of the most reliable cars you can buy and not any harder to work on than Camry.

The LS may never have the swagger of a V12 Mercedes, but if you can "only" afford a $20K car, chances are you can't afford to keep a V12 Mercedes running as a commuter.