Sandy Showed Nuke Plants' Vulnerability

[Perknose]

After the storm, folks, it's now sunny and clear and 1,000 degrees. D:

WASHINGTON – The danger Hurricane Sandy posed to nuclear power plants along the East Coast highlights some of the same vulnerabilities that terrorists looking to release harmful radiation into the environment could exploit, watchdog groups said this week.

The unprecedented storm posed two main challenges to atomic energy facilities: rising water levels and interruptions to the electricity grid. Both have the potential to disrupt crucial cooling systems at the plants, and particularly those for pools used to cool spent reactor fuel. If spent fuel rods overheat and are exposed to air, they can cause fires and dangerous radiation releases.

In Lacey Township, N.J., the Oyster Creek nuclear power plant faced both of these challenges. High water levels threatened to submerge a water pump motor used to cool water in the plant’s spent fuel pool, Reuters reported. The situation, caused by a combination of rising tide, wind direction and storm surge affecting the Atlantic Ocean and adjoining estuaries, prompted the facility to declare an emergency “alert,” according to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

In addition, the Oyster Creek plant at one point experienced a power disruption that necessitated the use of two backup diesel generators, according to Reuters.

While such auxiliary power can usually keeping cooling systems for a nuclear reactor itself operating, activists warn that NRC regulations do not require that such resources also be connected to the mechanisms that cool spent fuel pools.

“As soon as the electric grid goes down, water circulation pumps stop operating,” Kevin Kamps, a radioactive waste specialist with the group Beyond Nuclear said in a statement released during the storm.

Pool water can begin to boil within “several hours” of loss of cooling, he noted, and could leave fuel rods exposed within “several to many days.”

Kamps told Global Security Newswire that the same problems could be caused by an intentional attack.

“While high winds can knock out the electric grid so too can sabotage or terrorism,” Kamps said. He added that “normal cooling water flow pathways and mechanisms,” threatened by high water during the storm at Oyster Creek and other nuclear plants, “could also be disrupted intentionally.”

In the event of a disruption to the usual spent fuel pool cooling system, power plant operators could use firefighting equipment in an attempt to replenish water lost through evaporation. Japanese authorities tried similar tactics during the Fukushima Daiichi disaster last year. Watchdog groups argue that relying on this is insufficient, however.

Steam generated by a boiling spent fuel pool “could short circuit critical safety systems throughout the nuclear plant,” Kamps said.

Robert Alvarez, who served as a senior adviser to the Energy secretary during the Clinton administration, noted that spent fuel pools were originally designed for temporary storage lasting no longer than five years. He cited a 2006 study by the National Academy of Sciences that said pools at nearly all of the more than 100 reactors in the United States now contain high-density spent fuel racks that allow about five times more waste to be stored in the pool than was originally intended.

“The Oyster Creek spent fuel pool is currently holding about 3,000 irradiated assemblies (including a recently discharged full core) containing about 94 million curies of cesium 137 – more than three times more released from all atmospheric nuclear weapons tests,” Alvarez, now a senior scholar at the Institute for Policy Studies, said by e-mail. “Whether or not mega-storm Sandy portends what’s in store for the near future, it’s still too risky to use high-density spent fuel pools as de facto indefinite storage for some of the largest concentrations of radioactivity on the planet.”

My, my. What could possibly go wrong? :whiste:

 

[Acanthus]

I highly doubt that the spent fuel pool has open air access to the rest of the facility.

That would be a hilariously bad safety oversight.

Also, they fail to mention that Oyster Creek is literally the oldest US plant. Modern (Gen III+) plants can passively cool all of their systems without any power or human intervention.

 

[Jaskalas]

... relying on the OUTSIDE electric grid for safety....

Can we execute the people responsible for that decision?

Oh, and replace these reactors ASAP.

 

[thraashman]

This is what we'll really have to worry about when the zombie apocalypse occurs. Sure, zombies eating us sucks, but once the power goes down all the nuclear reactors worldwide will go critical and turn the earth into a nuclear wasteland! We need to improve our zombie proofing!

 

[Steeplerot]

Modern (Gen III+) plants can passively cool all of their systems without any power or human intervention.

IF the plant is totally intact and no critical systems are harmed. But then a plant should never go critical anyhow, that is unless the unforeseen happens, (like...oh a few half-assed maintained to cut corners pipe bends) which always does.

The nuke industry is probably the worst about buying out regulation and cutting corners/secrecy of all of them.

If they were honest people wouldn't put up with it. The reality is nuts when you look into how the USA runs these plants.

 

[QuantumPion]

Did steeplerot hijack Perknose's account or something? He seems to be totally off the wall with the crazy today.

 

[Steeplerot]

Did steeplerot hijack Perknose's account or something? He seems to be totally off the wall with the crazy today.

Our resident nuke plant toilet scrubber chimes in with his expert opinion.

How goes polishing the glowing turd?

 

[monovillage]

Coal is a cheaper form of energy anyways. Let's just burn more coal.

 

[QuantumPion]

Coal is a cheaper form of energy anyways. Let's just burn more coal.

Unfortunately 100 times more people die from coal mining and pollution every day than have ever been killed by nuclear power accidents, ever. In fact, more people have died from wind mills and solar panels than nuclear power.

Irrational fear is irrational.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Did steeplerot hijack Perknose's account or something? He seems to be totally off the wall with the crazy today.

lol, he's behaving like a lot of other really worried libs right now. Each at a different level of frenzy but it's hilarious how shrill they have gotten over the past few weeks since the election wasn't the cakewalk they "hoped".

 

[monovillage]

Unfortunately 100 times more people die from coal mining and pollution every day than have ever been killed by nuclear power accidents, ever. In fact, more people have died from wind mills and solar panels than nuclear power.

Irrational fear is irrational.

I know, but this isn't about what's better or cheaper or safer, it's about scoring political points.

 

[Perknose]

lol, he's behaving like a lot of other really worried libs right now. Each at a different level of frenzy but it's hilarious how shrill they have gotten over the past few weeks since the election wasn't the cakewalk they "hoped".

Got anything to add on the serious and substantive danger I raise in my OP? No? That's because you're a partisan blowhard.

Ok, then, blowhard, care to place a $500 bet with me on the election?

Of course, you won't, because you're just another partisan blowhard lacking the courage of your convictions.

Party of personal responsibility, indeed.

 

[nehalem256]

So the fact that nothing bad actually happened during Sandy is proof that nuclear power is unsafe?

 

[Steeplerot]

Irrational fear is irrational.

This is why there are 3 smoking husks of blown up and china syndrome plants leaking radiation into the populations of Japans children/Pacific ocean like discarded cigarette butts.

And what has the industry done? They have no plan except hope suckers like you keep misleading folks for them.

And repeating the same tired false equivalency about coal of course.

 

[Steeplerot]

So the fact that nothing bad actually happened during Sandy is proof that nuclear power is unsafe?

Hurricane Sandy: Problems at Five Nuke Plants

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/hurricane-sandy-problems-nuke-plants/story?id=17598503#.UJLzKcXR5EJ

We are playing a very dangerous game with very high stakes here.

Economically it is not even worth it, the plants have never been profitable without massive corporate welfare.

The problem is not a partisan one, face it, both parties have fallen over themselves to make this mess since the start.

I myself have no problem with smaller reactors like in subs and for medical isotopes, but jamming huge buildings full of this stuff with no plan in a serious emergency near population areas and keeping everything secretive is stupid.

For many many generations to pay the cost for. A few decades of unprofitable power. It's insane.

Even Einstein though it was madness long term.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Got anything to add on the serious and substantive danger I raise in my OP? No? That's because you're a partisan blowhard.

Ok, then, blowhard, care to place a $500 bet with me on the election?

Of course, you won't, because you're just another partisan blowhard lacking the courage of your convictions.

Party of personal responsibility, indeed.

I have personal responsibility AND family responsibility so while I'm helping "build it" I don't really gamble. The way I look at it, I don't need to double loose if BHO pulls this one out.

Your OP sucks as it is overhyped crap. They raised a warning but had backups in place and from what I've read they had contingencies if the 1st line of backups failed. Are the plants vulnerable? Sure, but no more than any thing else.... but keep ringing the alarm bell while providing no solutions.

 

[Steeplerot]

Are the plants vulnerable? Sure, but no more than any thing else....

wtf?

What exactly is a "anything else" that turns places like Northern Japan or Belsarus into wastelands?

All out nuke war?

More false equivalence, but this is par for the course with you guys.

 

[chucky2]

So for those that fret about these very old but still running nuke plants, would you be OK with the Gen III or IV plants being built to replace them?

 

[Steeplerot]

So for those that fret about these very old but still running nuke plants, would you be OK with the Gen III or IV plants being built to replace them?

Too expensive and unprofitable, they are a cash sink/corporate feeding troth Plus in reality its impossible to engineer safety for something that large anyhow in many scenerios.

Nor have governments/private industry shown they are capable of responsibly handling them through regulation.

TEPCO was told about a decade before to build that seawall to NRC regulation size.

They say now they never did because "it would frighten people to see a huge seawall".

Bullshit, they know if the public understood them they would be shut down. This is why they rely on saying reasoned debate is "fearmongering" and go into defensive/siege mode.

They have no defense for the madness/unprofitably.

 

[Franz316]

This seems like a gaping problem that should never be allowed to occur.

Why does the power plant need an outside source of power to for its cooling pool? There are so many unpredictable things that can happen. It just seems very shortsighted to have something as deadly as nuclear waste susceptible to a mere power outage.

 

[Steeplerot]

This seems like a gaping problem that should never be allowed to occur.

Why does the power plant need an outside source of power to for its cooling pool?

The fuel is still quite hot for a few years you cant just "shut off" the fuel.

It's still quite dangerous for centuries after they pull it out. Sometimes 1000s of years. For example Fuku #3 core had a few tons of plutonium (MOX fuel) in its now exposed core which makes things much more "permanent".

Luckily we don't use MOX here in commercial reactors. (or so they say, Japan BSed about it to the public until #3 went up in a mushroom cloud)

Fun Fuku Physics Fact: We all have trace amounts of stronium 90 in our teeth now because of Fuku pretty much worldwide, our ancestors will be able to find our generations graves with geiger counters. Awesome!

 

[K1052]

This seems like a gaping problem that should never be allowed to occur.

Why does the power plant need an outside source of power to for its cooling pool? There are so many unpredictable things that can happen. It just seems very shortsighted to have something as deadly as nuclear waste susceptible to a mere power outage.

Cooling demand of spent fuel pools are really low, it really is the least of all problems if the site looses power. Maintaining cooling to the core is much more important...which is why they have battery backups and multiple generators in the event the site looses grid power.

 

[chucky2]

Too expensive and unprofitable, they are a cash sink/corporate feeding troth Plus in reality its impossible to engineer safety for something that large anyhow in many scenerios.

So if there were no subsidies, only say low interest loans, and they were responsible for maintaining a fund to deal with their waste long term, you'd have no financial reason to be against nuke from a buildout and disposal perspective?

Nor have governments/private industry shown they are capable of responsibly handling them through regulation.

What have the US done wrong with regard to nuke that would continue with a modern Gen III/IV design?

TEPCO was told about a decade before to build that seawall to NRC regulation size.

They say now they never did because "it would frighten people to see a huge seawall".

Bullshit, they know if the public understood them they would be shut down. This is why they rely on saying reasoned debate is "fearmongering" and go into defensive/siege mode.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I'm talking US, not Japan or anyone else.

They have no defense for the madness/unprofitably.

Madness? What do you mean by this? So if the utility was not allowed gov assistance except for low interest loans, would not that take care of your unprofitable concerns?

Chuck

 

[K1052]

Too expensive and unprofitable, they are a cash sink/corporate feeding troth Plus in reality its impossible to engineer safety for something that large anyhow in many scenerios.

NG boom has made coal and nuclear less economical. It is questionable how long NG prices will stay at these levels though.

The Fukushima accident physically could not have happened to a GenIII/GenIII+ plant.

 

[bfdd]

I worked 1 week in an oil refinery before realizing all the vulnerabilities to be had there, didn't even take a natural disaster of the sort to reveal them all. Yawn, bet one could cause a whole lot more going after refineries than they could nuke plants.