Sandy-Bridge Build: Feedback?

[mushin1989]

Nobody on this forum seems to be taking very well to the suggestion that there are more polite ways to give advice to someone whose trying to learn. Imagine if a professor of yours, instead of just correcting you and presenting the reasons why, said your work was dumb, terrible, whatever. There's a reason good instructors don't do that, in the same way that good discussions tend to be polite while arguments tend to be rude. If in having a conversation with someone you persistently refer to their ideas as stupid, there is a good chance they'll end up thinking of you as a dickwad, so, that's probably something you need to tone down. If you don't get what I'm saying, then honestly, I don't know how much plainer to put it. Sorry if I offended anyone regardless.

I appreciate the ongoing advice, but like I said, I'm no longer looking for any, so again, thankyou (I mean it) for your help on this.

 

[mfenn]

RIP mushin1989 :rose;

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Nobody on this forum seems to be taking very well to the suggestion that there are more polite ways to give advice to someone whose trying to learn. Imagine if a professor of yours, instead of just correcting you and presenting the reasons why, said your work was dumb, terrible, whatever. There's a reason good instructors don't do that, in the same way that good discussions tend to be polite while arguments tend to be rude. If in having a conversation with someone you persistently refer to their ideas as stupid, there is a good chance they'll end up thinking of you as a dickwad, so, that's probably something you need to tone down. If you don't get what I'm saying, then honestly, I don't know how much plainer to put it. Sorry if I offended anyone regardless.

I appreciate the ongoing advice, but like I said, I'm no longer looking for any, so again, thankyou (I mean it) for your help on this.

I would shut up and listen his reasons as to why. He's supposed to have more knowledge on the subject. We all corrected you and gave you reasons as to our rationale. We never called you horrible; we called the build horrible. Bad would've been if we said it simply sucked and didn't give you any reasons as to why and what could be done to improve it.

Now I see you're too touchy and can't take advice and don't want to be corrected and only focus on style and not substance. Don't ask me for advice again.

 

[aphelion02]

Nobody on this forum seems to be taking very well to the suggestion that there are more polite ways to give advice to someone whose trying to learn. Imagine if a professor of yours, instead of just correcting you and presenting the reasons why, said your work was dumb, terrible, whatever. There's a reason good instructors don't do that, in the same way that good discussions tend to be polite while arguments tend to be rude. If in having a conversation with someone you persistently refer to their ideas as stupid, there is a good chance they'll end up thinking of you as a dickwad, so, that's probably something you need to tone down. If you don't get what I'm saying, then honestly, I don't know how much plainer to put it. Sorry if I offended anyone regardless.

I appreciate the ongoing advice, but like I said, I'm no longer looking for any, so again, thankyou (I mean it) for your help on this.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Actually they could've been much more rude so I wouldn't be too taken back by their comments. Though they should realize that some people simply want to do their "own thing" and will purposely disreguard a better suggestion for a lesser one because the choice wasn't their own. It's a defense mechanism used to rationalize the fact that they know nothing and won't take certain advice because it makes them feel dumb.

If that's not the case then you have to give a reasonable, specific reason for your choice. Even if it's as simple as "because it looks cool".

 

[mushin1989]

Alright, to be honest this has blown up past what it should've. I simply have a different approach to giving advice than what is apparently the norm here and had just put a lot of work into trying to learn how to put a build together as it is, so thats why some of the comments irked me and I said something about it. I'm perfectly willing to drop this because it's pointless and it's not like we're going to see eye to eye on it when we have different perspectives in the first place. Because some of you took the time to give the advice I'll take the time to respond to them.

There seems to be this idea that I'm choosing parts because they look cool or without reason, and thats not really the case. I've considered the advice and have reasons for going with the suggestions or not.

In the case of the... case, I'm not going with the 920 because it seems to me like all of this in a mid-size case would be tight (some product reviews for the parts warn that things will barely fit in mid-size cases), and I also would like the airflow provided by the bigger case model. I don't mind things being roomy.

In the case of the ram, according to newegg the particular model I've chosen has no heat spreaders. Overall, in comparison with other dual channel's, I think those are the best choice for the build, and like the price.

In the case of the PSU I feel more comfortable with the 750w considering I have those two GPU's in crossfire. A single card needs a 500w supply alone, I figure two ought to have the 750w (I've actually had a 850w supply recommended). Note that I'm not planning to overclock to the ends of the earth. I don't have experience with overclocking and would just like to have the capability to do it lightly-moderately.

With respect to the cooler, I looked at the other options but chose to stick with what I've decided on for now. Aside from the fact that the product reviews are highly favorable, I think the cooler is respectable for the price and I appreciate that it's also quiet. Again, I don't plan on pushing the system to it's limits, so I don't feel the need for a very fancy cooler.

I'm holding off on a SDD, even if I did chip things down enough to afford it I don't want to spend the money on it now.

Let's please keep this thread on the subject of the OP's build from here on. Otherwise I'm going to have to lock the thread for going too far off topic.

-Thanks
ViRGE

 

[Patrick Wolf]

The case is fine, specially if going dual GPU.

It's pretty silly not to get memory with heatspreaders seeing as it costs a few bucks more (or actually cheaper if you hit a sale which newegg almost always has). No it's not critical to have, but cooler running components is always a +.

The PSU. It's not about what makes you feel comfortable. It's about what you need and 650w should be your target.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6950-crossfirex-review/14

However the HX750 is still a good buy, but if you'd prefer 80 Plus Gold see this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817121077

This is also very useful: http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

I couldn't care less about the cooler. Get what you want and hopefully you're happy with it.

SSD's are badass, but you can always add one later. 🙂

 

[mfenn]

In the case of the... case, I'm not going with the 920 because it seems to me like all of this in a mid-size case would be tight (some product reviews for the parts warn that things will barely fit in mid-size cases), and I also would like the airflow provided by the bigger case model. I don't mind things being roomy.

Mid-tower vs. full-tower is purely a marketing distinction. There is no standard or even consistency. Case in point:

922: Dimensions(L x W x H) 22.20" x 10.00" x 19.70"
932: Dimensions(L x W x H) 22.70" x 9.00" x 21.50"

Yes, the "full-tower" is a whole 1/2" longer, 1" wider, and 2" taller.

Also, I think everybody has beaten the PSU thing to death, but we've given you actual data to back up our recommendations. Not "you need 850W cuz I said so". Short answer: the 750HX is necessarily expensive for this build.

It's pretty silly not to get memory with heatspreaders seeing as it costs a few bucks more (or actually cheaper if you hit a sale which newegg almost always has). No it's not critical to have, but cooler running components is always a +.

No, it's silly to get memory with heatspeaders because they have a good chance of interfering with a tower cooler.

 

[notty22]

The 750 PSU is a good choice for a build with 2 video cards that need 4 pci-e connectors. Your buying 6950's that use Cayman. That's AMD's , largest die, highest , performing gpu. Partly disabled from the 6970, which use almost a 100 more watts in crossfire (than 6950) at its default clocks.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Not talking about Corsair Vengeance, mfenn. Something as simple as this.

Besides the main issue with tower coolers is they block DIMM slots entirely preventing anything from being installed.

 

[mfenn]

Not talking about Corsair Vengeance, mfenn. Something as simple as this.

My bad, you are of course correct. Manufacturers seemed to have moved away from the simple kind for the most part. 🙁

Besides the main issue with tower coolers is they block DIMM slots entirely preventing anything from being installed.

Maybe the original low-rise ones, but newer models don't have that issue.

 

[mfenn]

The 750 PSU is a good choice for a build with 2 video cards that need 4 pci-e connectors. Your buying 6950's that use Cayman. That's AMD's , largest die, highest , performing gpu. Partly disabled from the 6970, which use almost a 100 more watts in crossfire (than 6950) at its default clocks.

And yet, there are plenty of 650W power supplies (some recommended in this thread) with 4 PCIe power connectors. And the data shows that 6950 CF draws on the order of 470W (less if you correct for PSU inefficiency).

 

[notty22]

And yet, there are plenty of 650W power supplies (some recommended in this thread) with 4 PCIe power connectors. And the data shows that 6950 CF draws on the order of 470W (less if you correct for PSU inefficiency).

Strongly disagree, you are trying to save him money, when it's not needed.

PSU: You don't need 750W for 6950 CF. The 650TX is $75 AR. (-$65 AR

That psu has only 2- 6+2 pci-e connectors.
If you look at 6970 crossfire power draw numbers you are up to xxx, which is always mentioned when recommending 6950's.

Thats cutting it way to close , especially when recomending molex to pci-e adapters.

 

[mfenn]

Strongly disagree, you are trying to save him money, when it's not needed.

Huh? How is it not needed? Money saved in one place buys performance elsewhere.

That psu has only 2- 6+2 pci-e connectors.

You are correct. I was thinking of the XFX Core 650W.

If you look at 6970 crossfire power draw numbers you are up to xxx, which is always mentioned when recommending 6950's.

Thats cutting it way to close , especially when recomending molex to pci-e adapters.

I assume you meant to put a number in the place of xxx? Anyway, the OP is buying non-reference 6950's, so I don't see how 6970 power draw matters in the slightest.

Also, I base my 24/7 numbers on intended use (gaming), not Furmark. I don't think a PSU has been recommended in this thread (since the OP switched to CFX of course) that couldn't handle a Furmark run. If you're afraid of getting within 50W of the max rated power output of your PSU for some period of time, you're looking at the wrong PSU brands.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

Strongly disagree, you are trying to save him money, when it's not needed.


That psu has only 2- 6+2 pci-e connectors.
If you look at 6970 crossfire power draw numbers you are up to xxx, which is always mentioned when recommending 6950's.

Thats cutting it way to close , especially when recomending molex to pci-e adapters.

Those are numbers at the wall, so no. Assuming 82% efficiency, the PSU will only have to produce 493W, which won't make it sweat.

My main problem with the Corsair TX-650 V2 is that it's only $10-15 cheaper than the Corsair TX-750 V2 and you lose a lot of features and power delivery. Getting a higher wattage PSU is a good way to future-proof, especially because of capacitor aging.

 

[mfenn]

Those are numbers at the wall, so no. Assuming 82% efficiency, the PSU will only have to produce 493W, which won't make it sweat.

Another good point!

 

[notty22]

Those are numbers at the wall, so no. Assuming 82% efficiency, the PSU will only have to produce 493W, which won't make it sweat.

My main problem with the Corsair TX-650 V2 is that it's only $10-15 cheaper than the Corsair TX-750 V2 and you lose a lot of features and power delivery. Getting a higher wattage PSU is a good way to future-proof, especially because of capacitor aging.

You never want to recommend a psu without the correct number of pci-e connectors, from johnny guru.

An FSP Epsilon 700W has ample power for any SLI rig out there, right? But the unit only comes with two PCIe connectors. The two PCIe connectors on the unit are each on their own +12V rail. Each of these rails provides up to 18A which is almost three times more than what a 6-pin PCIe power connector is designed to deliver! What if I want to run a pair of GTX cards? It would have been ideal if they could put two PCIe connectors on each of those rails instead of just one, but instead those with GTX SLI are forced to use Molex to PCIe adapters. Here comes the problem: When you use the Molex to PCIe adapters, you have now added the load from graphics cards onto the rail that's also supplying power to all of your hard drives, optical drives, fans, CCFL's, water pump.. you name it. Suddenly, during a game, the PC shuts down completely.

Solution: To my knowledge, there aren't one-to-two PCIe adapters. Ideally, you'd want to open that PSU up and solder down another pair of PCIe connectors to the rails the existing PCIe connectors are on, but alas... that is not practical. So even if your PSU has MORE than ample power for your next graphics cards upgrade, if it doesn't come with all of the appropriate connectors, it's time to buy another power supply.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

You never want to recommend a psu without the correct number of pci-e connectors, from johnny guru.

If it's a good quality PSU that shouldn't be much of an issue. It would definitely still be preferable to use native connectors, though.

In any case, you can get an XFX Core Edition PRO 650W with 4x PCIe connectors for the same price as the Corsair TX650 V2, so it's a non-issue.

 

[spikespiegal]

It's a defense mechanism used to rationalize the fact that they know nothing and won't take certain advice because it makes them feel dumb.

You of course having a doctorate in PC building?

Any of you....have some kind of degree in PC building? Bachelors maybe? How many people giving the OP a hard time actually put "I'm an expert on building a PC" on a resume. Case closed.

I'm curious how the OP is so stupid when there really isn't a science behind any of this other than socket compatibility, and none of you work for any of the Asian board makers. 99.99% of your opinions are based on either (a) Benchmark comparisons (b) Enthusiast site reviews often sponsored by the manufacturers and not running gear long enough or hard enough to determine proper MTF ratings. Which is why I've never seen one of these rigs in a data center...

Everything he has listed I can find a contradictary review stating it's better than your choice.

 

[LOL_Wut_Axel]

You of course having a doctorate in PC building?

Any of you....have some kind of degree in PC building? Bachelors maybe? How many people giving the OP a hard time actually put "I'm an expert on building a PC" on a resume. Case closed.

I'm curious how the OP is so stupid when there really isn't a science behind any of this other than socket compatibility, and none of you work for any of the Asian board makers. 99.99% of your opinions are based on either (a) Benchmark comparisons (b) Enthusiast site reviews often sponsored by the manufacturers and not running gear long enough or hard enough to determine proper MTF ratings. Which is why I've never seen one of these rigs in a data center...

Everything he has listed I can find a contradictary review stating it's better than your choice.

Trololol.

And no, our choices were much better.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Everything he has listed I can find a contradictary review stating it's better than your choice.

Haha, yeah I'd like to see that. And this isn't brain surgery you don't need a degree to prove you know what you're talking about. In this instance experience matters. The OP has none, we have a lot. And your accusations of dishonest review sites is unfounded and conspiratorial.

 

[mfenn]

You never want to recommend a psu without the correct number of pci-e connectors, from johnny guru.

That is one specific instance, not a general rule. Both the Core 650W and TX V2 650W have a single 12V rail.

 

[mushin1989]

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6950-crossfirex-review/14 :

"Radeon HD 6950 in CrossfireX

A second card requires you to add another ~160 Watts. You need a 650+ Watt power supply unit and if you use it in a high-end system a 800+ to a KiloWatt is recommended especially if you plan on any overclocking."

Considering that, this does look like a solid buy over the HX750:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&SID=u00000687

With regard to the case, you made a solid point about the size differences being somewhat negligible. Call me stubborn though, I'm still interested in the 932. It weighs like 30 pounds, but the reports on its cooling abilities are at times overwhelmingly positive (newegg also provides more detailed information about the cooling capabilities of the case). So I still dig the 932.

About the RAM, this going back and fourth between heat spreaders and no heat spreaders still leaves me with my current choice. Generally I've been hearing to avoid them, but if there's some superior model with heat spreaders that won't cause a problem then I'm not aware of it. All in all thought I'm pretty sold on the 8GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series.

 

[mfenn]

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-6950-crossfirex-review/14 :

"Radeon HD 6950 in CrossfireX

A second card requires you to add another ~160 Watts. You need a 650+ Watt power supply unit and if you use it in a high-end system a 800+ to a KiloWatt is recommended especially if you plan on any overclocking."

Considering that, this does look like a solid buy over the HX750:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...&SID=u00000687

And yet their actual numbers show a 473W draw for the whole system, including overclocked Bloomfield and fancy lighting. You've got to look beyond the reviewer's recommendations and dig into the real facts. The Lazer is nice power supply, but it is grossly still unnecessary.

With regard to the case, you made a solid point about the size differences being somewhat negligible. Call me stubborn though, I'm still interested in the 932. It weighs like 30 pounds, but the reports on its cooling abilities are at times overwhelmingly positive (newegg also provides more detailed information about the cooling capabilities of the case). So I still dig the 932.

At least you admit it now. :awe:

About the RAM, this going back and fourth between heat spreaders and no heat spreaders still leaves me with my current choice. Generally I've been hearing to avoid them, but if there's some superior model with heat spreaders that won't cause a problem then I'm not aware of it. All in all thought I'm pretty sold on the 8GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series.

Seriously? Please read back over this thread for several recommendations of less expensive RAM without big heatspreaders.

 

[mushin1989]

Actually, the RAM is really a non-issue for me, and I like the recommended LZG-700 (50W extra won't hurt, 80 Plus Gold Cert unit).

Alright, I'm confident with this build. I thank you all again for the feedback, good work and thanks for your time.