Sandy Berger CLEARED of Document Theft.

[Harvey]

Buried somewhere deep in the N.Y. Times was the embarrassing revelation that investigators from the National Archives and the Justice Department have concluded nothing is missing and nothing in the Clinton administration's record was withheld from the 9-11 Commission. Subscription required to access the Times site, but the article is quoted on several online sources, including this one:

Officials looking into the removal of classified documents from the National Archives by former Clinton National Security Adviser Samuel Berger say no original materials are missing and nothing Mr. Berger reviewed was withheld from the commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Several prominent Republicans, including House Speaker Dennis Hastert and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, have voiced suspicion that when Mr. Berger was preparing materials for the 9/11 Commission on the Clinton administration's antiterror actions, he may have removed documents that were potentially damaging to the former president's record.

The conclusion by archives officials and others would seem to lay to rest the issue of whether any information was permanently destroyed or withheld from the commission.

Archives spokeswoman Susan Cooper said officials there "are confident that there aren't any original documents missing in relation to this case." She said in most cases, Mr. Berger was given photocopies to review, and that in any event officials have accounted for all originals to which he had access.

That included all drafts of a so-called after-action report prepared by the White House and federal agencies in 2000 after the investigation into a foiled bombing plot aimed at the Millennium celebrations. That report and earlier drafts are at the center of allegations that Mr. Berger might have permanently removed some records from the archives. Some of the allegations have related to the possibility that drafts with handwritten notes on them may have disappeared, but Ms. Cooper said archives staff are confident those documents aren't missing either.

Daniel Marcus, general counsel of the 9/11 Commission, said the panel had been assured twice by the Justice Department that no originals were missing and that all of the material Mr. Berger had access to had been turned over to the commission. "We are told that the Justice Department is satisfied that we've seen everything that the archives saw," and "nothing was missing," he said.

Berger did remove photocopies of some documents, which was wrong, but these are documents his current and previous positions allow him to access. It is highly doubtful he did anything with them that compromised national security.

With all the roar and thunder from the far right when they were up in arms about the original allegations, the current silence is deafening.

 

[DealMonkey]

Oh man, some of you better wipe the spittle off your chins.

(*cough* Heartsurgeon *hack*)

 

[tallest1]

Now if only the remaining 'scandals' (mostly surrounding cheney) were investigated as efficiently as this one....

 

[alchemize]

Care to quote where anyone said he took original documents?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Care to quote where anyone said he took original documents?

Hastert, DeLay, Gillespie . . . I would wager Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Dennis Miller as well.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: alchemize
Care to quote where anyone said he took original documents?

Hastert, DeLay, Gillespie . . . I would wager Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Dennis Miller as well.

So call them out and quote them.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Care to quote where anyone said he took original documents?

I neither know nor care, but anybody who in any way implied that information was withheld would automatically be assuming that original material was stolen otherwise it would have been there to provide. Well it was there apparently so nothing was witheld. So no originals were stolen xontrary to what was implied by those making that claim indirectly, logically, yes? Now did anybody make the claim that stuff was withheld?

 

[glenn1]

Several prominent Republicans, including House Speaker Dennis Hastert and House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, have voiced suspicion that when Mr. Berger was preparing materials for the 9/11 Commission on the Clinton administration's antiterror actions, he may have removed documents that were potentially damaging to the former president's record.

I don't see the above question as being an unreasonable one to ask. I'm glad that Mr. Berger has been cleared, but still find the entire situation a bit surreal.

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Care to quote where anyone said he took original documents?

Sure. Just on this forum that would be:

heartsurgeon: [using sarcasm]"In summary, i believe it is extremely low for anyone to suggest that Mr. Berger inadvertantly removing 50-90 documents from a secure archive room, including all drafts of the "Millenium" after action report (written by Richard Clarke, providing a critique of U.S. security at that time), over multiple trips to the archive, including handwritten notes, observed to be stuffed into his socks by archive personnel...is some sort of big deal.

AndrewR: "He didn't take "copies" -- he took drafts with handwritten notes. . ."


That's just two posters here in just ONE of the multiple threads all started by heartsurgeon on the subject. In addtition, several posters state "Berger stole documents" without ever stating they were copies, even after others had clearly posted that they were copies.

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: Perknose

Originally posted by: alchemize
Care to quote where anyone said he took original documents?

Sure. Just on this forum that would be:

heartsurgeon: [using sarcasm]"In summary, i believe it is extremely low for anyone to suggest that Mr. Berger inadvertantly removing 50-90 documents from a secure archive room, including all drafts of the "Millenium" after action report (written by Richard Clarke, providing a critique of U.S. security at that time), over multiple trips to the archive, including handwritten notes, observed to be stuffed into his socks by archive personnel...is some sort of big deal.

AndrewR]/b]: "He didn't take "copies" -- he took drafts with handwritten notes. . ."


That's just two posters here in just ONE of the multiple threads all started by heartsurgeon on the subject. In addtition, several posters state "Berger stole documents" without ever stating they were copies, even after others had clearly posted that they were copies.

PWNED? Yeah, i'd say so.

 

[Taggart]

Too bad for Berger, that's probably going to be his legacy in history.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: alchemize
So call them out and quote them.

Since you asked...

On Dennis Hastert, from The Washinton Post:

"Mr. Berger has a lot of explaining to do. He was given access to these documents to assist the 9/11 commission, not hide information from them," said House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.). "The American people and the 9/11 families don't want coverups when it comes to the war on terror. They want the truth. And so does the U.S. House of Representatives."

Tom Delay, from CBS News:

Adding to the partisan vitriol, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, called Berger's actions on Tuesday a "third-rate burglary" and a "gravely, gravely serious" threat to national security.

Next question.

<edit>

Thanks. Links fixed and one to beam up, CaptnKirk.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Fix Harvey's link

Tom Delay, from CBS News

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: alchemize
So call them out and quote them.

Since you asked...

On Dennis Hastert, from [l=The Washinton Post[/l]:

"Mr. Berger has a lot of explaining to do. He was given access to these documents to assist the 9/11 commission, not hide information from them," said House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.). "The American people and the 9/11 families don't want coverups when it comes to the war on terror. They want the truth. And so does the U.S. House of Representatives."

Tom Delay, from [l=CBS News]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/21/politics/main631101.shtml[/l]:

Adding to the partisan vitriol, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, called Berger's actions on Tuesday a "third-rate burglary" and a "gravely, gravely serious" threat to national security.

Next question.

I don't see anyting about copies or originals in those quotes. Wasn't that the original premise of your post?

 

[Klixxer]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: alchemize
So call them out and quote them.

Since you asked...

On Dennis Hastert, from [l=The Washinton Post[/l]:

"Mr. Berger has a lot of explaining to do. He was given access to these documents to assist the 9/11 commission, not hide information from them," said House Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.). "The American people and the 9/11 families don't want coverups when it comes to the war on terror. They want the truth. And so does the U.S. House of Representatives."

Tom Delay, from [l=CBS News]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/21/politics/main631101.shtml[/l]:

Adding to the partisan vitriol, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, called Berger's actions on Tuesday a "third-rate burglary" and a "gravely, gravely serious" threat to national security.

Next question.

I don't see anyting about copies or originals in those quotes. Wasn't that the original premise of your post?

I know it is summertime but taking of your shades once in a while won't hurt your eyes, i promise.

 

[alchemize]

I know it is summertime but taking of your shades once in a while won't hurt your eyes, i promise.

Maybe it is dark...ok why dont you bold/underline the parts where they say orginals/copies?

 

[OneOfTheseDays]

alchemize quit beating around the bush. you know what we are saying, don't play a semantics game.

facts are, right-wingers accused Berger of stealing documents, copies or originals, stuffing them in his pockets all in some sort of coverup. he has since been cleared of all charges, and the least you could do (if you made any prior statements) is to say you screwed up.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: alchemize
Care to quote where anyone said he took original documents?

Hastert, DeLay, Gillespie . . . I would wager Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Dennis Miller as well.

So call them out and quote them.

Hastert

The American people deserve to know why Mr. Berger apparently skirted the law and removed highly classified terrorism documents, purportedly in his pants, from a secure reading room at the National Archives and then proceeded to lose or destroy some of them.

DeLay

Evoking images of Watergate, or perhaps the fast-food Hamburglar, DeLay, R-Texas, described the disgraced former Kerry adviser's light-fingered antics as "just a third-rate burglary."

Find the rest on your own . . . but considering previous history I seriously doubt you haven't heard Gillespie, Rush, Hannity, or O'Reilly on this issue. Nobody watches Dennis Miller so plausible deniability is somewhat reasonable.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
alchemize quit beating around the bush. you know what we are saying, don't play a semantics game.

facts are, right-wingers accused Berger of stealing documents, copies or originals, stuffing them in his pockets all in some sort of coverup. he has since been cleared of all charges, and the least you could do (if you made any prior statements) is to say you screwed up.

He's been cleared of all charges? I don't see that anywhere. Please post the relevant link.

He's been cleared of stealing orginals...not copies. And of course, he accidently "lost" those secret documents too...

From Harvey's very own link:

This development doesn't leave Berger entirely in the clear -- it appears he still removed photocopies of classified material from the archives

 

[alchemize]

The American people deserve to know why Mr. Berger apparently skirted the law and removed highly classified terrorism documents, purportedly in his pants, from a secure reading room at the National Archives and then proceeded to lose or destroy some of them.

Is the above statement incorrect? The only thing I see here is the nuance of whether or not he stole originals or copies, of which I was always in the understanding it was copies and never said otherwise.

 

[Phokus]

People still take heartsurgeon seriously?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: alchemize

I know it is summertime but taking of your shades once in a while won't hurt your eyes, i promise.

Maybe it is dark...ok why dont you bold/underline the parts where they say orginals/copies?

Why don't you explain how information could have been withheld of the originals were never missing.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: Phokus
People still take heartsurgeon seriously?

On occasion, he's posted reasonably . . . even informative information.

 

[cumhail]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Originally posted by: Phokus
People still take heartsurgeon seriously?

On occasion, he's posted reasonably . . . even informative information.

Now THAT'S something I'd have to see some links proving...

cumhail

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
alchemize quit beating around the bush. you know what we are saying, don't play a semantics game.

facts are, right-wingers accused Berger of stealing documents, copies or originals, stuffing them in his pockets all in some sort of coverup. he has since been cleared of all charges, and the least you could do (if you made any prior statements) is to say you screwed up.

He's been cleared of all charges? I don't see that anywhere. Please post the relevant link.

He's been cleared of stealing orginals...not copies. And of course, he accidently "lost" those secret documents too...

From Harvey's very own link:

This development doesn't leave Berger entirely in the clear -- it appears he still removed photocopies of classified material from the archives

It's amazing how this was overlooked and no one bothered to call you out on it. But then I guess the discussion wouldn't be quite as... 'fun'?