Samsung designer talking about the new GALAXY S6

[mrochester]

Allowing downgrades to earlier versions would also create any number of security and support headaches. I'd say Apple is better off being more strategic with upgrades (i.e. deciding when to stop support or optimizing software) than letting you revert to previous releases.

And where's the 'downgrade' option in the settings on an Android device anyway? I've certainly never seen it.

 

[poofyhairguy]

My mum has just got an iPhone 4S and it actually runs suprisingly well.

She should, it still has a good balance of power-per-pixel. Better than my iPad 2 or the iPad Mini 1. And obviously the expectations of what is good enough vary per person. That is why I kept saying "effective" life. To me that means the part of that device's life where the performance is as good or better than the day it was purchased. What is useful to each person is a personal judgement, but when a device is slower than when it was bought is obvious to everyone.

For example, I would hate to use an iPad 1 or 3 regularly, but there are people here who claim to do that all the time. I think part of that is selective ignorance- it feels fine until you play with a modern device and then you get a mean case of the wants. But the fact that some people have lower expectations is besides the point- Apple will run almost every iOS device to a version of the OS that runs slower than the one it came with. That is the downside of a one-way "support" system.

I'd hazard a guess far longer than any Android phone released in the same time period, regardless of how much RAM that Android device has.

I will take that bet, but then you might not know about the fact that as of Lollipop almost every Android device has had the major parts of the OS decoupled from the OS and shoved into the app store. Therefore any Lollipop device will be supported as long as that device can connect to the Play Store, which means all of them should still be getting some level of OS updates long after the 6 and 6+ are off the iOS treadmill.

You are going to say that is not fair though, and force me to compare an Apple to an orange (aka full OS updates). In that case I still say you might be wrong. I mean Google updated the 2012 Nexus to Android 5.1 Therefore the Nexus 6 might have a longer support life than the 6 or 6+, it certainly will have a longer effective life. Just because we don't have any 2011 Android around in 2015 doesn't mean we won't have 2014 Androids around in 2018. Android was in a different place in 2011.

 

[poofyhairguy]

And where's the 'downgrade' option in the settings on an Android device anyway? I've certainly never seen it.

We call it the XDA community on the Android side.

Not all Android devices can be manually downgraded that way, but a greater percentage can be than iOS devices. Because heck, anything is bigger than 0.

 

[mrochester]

For example, I would hate to use an iPad 1 or 3 regularly, but there are people here who claim to do that all the time. I think part of that is selective ignorance- it feels fine until you play with a modern device and then you get a mean case of the wants. But the fact that some people have lower expectations is besides the point- Apple will run almost every iOS device to a version of the OS that runs slower than the one it came with. That is the downside of a one-way "support" system.

I think what you mean is that is the downside of technology progressing. Exactly the same thing happened in the PC market.

I will take that bet, but then you might not know about the fact that as of Lollipop almost every Android device has had the major parts of the OS decoupled from the OS and shoved into the app store. Therefore any Lollipop device will be supported as long as that device can connect to the Play Store, which means all of them should still be getting some level of OS updates long after the 6 and 6+ are off the iOS treadmill.

You are going to say that is not fair though, and force me to compare an Apple to an orange (aka full OS updates). In that case I still say you might be wrong. I mean Google updated the 2012 Nexus to Android 5.1 Therefore the Nexus 6 might have a longer support life than the 6 or 6+, it certainly will have a longer effective life. Just because we don't have any 2011 Android around in 2015 doesn't mean we won't have 2014 Androids around in 2018. Android was in a different place in 2011.

If Google can change Android to provide longer support, as you've assumed, why don't you assume Apple will do exactly the same thing? All we can base our knowledge on is what has already come and gone, and in that sense, iPhones are far better supported than Android phones. It's yet to be proven whether Google can improve it's record in this regard.

We call it the XDA community on the Android side.

I already knew that, I was simply making the point, albeit sarcastically, that downgrading an Android phone to an older OS version isn't something that is actually officially supported or easily facilitated by the manufacturer. It's only a benefit for those who have the inclination and knowledge to do so, i.e., very few. The reason there isn't a big button in the settings allowing users to downgrade to an earlier OS version? Because it'd be a nightmare for manufacturers to support, as per Apple's stance.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I think what you mean is that is the downside of technology progressing. Exactly the same thing happened in the PC market.

Sure. But the normals don't see it that way.

If Google can change Android to provide longer support, as you've assumed, why don't you assume Apple will do exactly the same thing?

Because Google's solution is a hack to get around platform fragmentation. It is a genius hack, but if Apple did it I am pretty sure you could power a city from Job's corpse rolling over in his grave.

All we can base our knowledge on is what has already come and gone, and in that sense, iPhones are far better supported than Android phones.

Good point.

It's only a benefit for those who have the inclination and knowledge to do so, i.e., very few.

Sure, but at least the option is there.

I am CONSTANTLY doing things on computers and mobile device that 99% of the population doesn't know how to do, or wouldn't know why they would even do that. Doesn't make those tasks any less valid for me than say word processing.

 

[swilli89]

Samsung screwed up IMO by trying to beat the Iphone 6's thinness. Utter garbage this move was. Sure, its a fraction of a MILLITMETER thinner than the iPhone due in part to using a smaller battery. To me, if you aren't going to let people hot swap batteries, an integrated <3000mah battery just won't cut it after using a Sony Z3.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Yeah but I think for a lot of people, just being metal and having the "thinnest phone" will get Samsung an extra sale. It's just something that happens. My GS4 has been out of its case for over a year now but the condition is still nearly new and yet it always gets knocked for "feels like poor quality".

 

[mrochester]

Yeah but I think for a lot of people, just being metal and having the "thinnest phone" will get Samsung an extra sale. It's just something that happens. My GS4 has been out of its case for over a year now but the condition is still nearly new and yet it always gets knocked for "feels like poor quality".

Well what will hopefully see Samsung get more sales is giving customers what they want; beautiful, well made devices that feel great in the hand (assuming). If that's at the expense of features that few people want (such as removable batteries and SD cards) then I say so be it.

Only time will tell whether this will be successful or not. My thought is that it will be, and we can finally put this silly argument to bed that removable batteries and SD cards are important.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Only time will tell whether this will be successful or not. My thought is that it will be, and we can finally put this silly argument to bed that removable batteries and SD cards are important.

Well no, just because more people will buy a phone like the GS6 doesn't mean those elements aren't important. It's very often the case that people will jettison things before realizing how important that are. This occurs in all aspects of life and not just personal electronic devices.

In the end though, the sales is what Samsung is going for and this move will probably help them.

 

[mrochester]

Well no, just because more people will buy a phone like the GS6 doesn't mean those elements aren't important. It's very often the case that people will jettison things before realizing how important that are. This occurs in all aspects of life and not just personal electronic devices.

In the end though, the sales is what Samsung is going for and this move will probably help them.

Well, logically, people wouldn't buy the phone if those features were important to them. The S6 doing well would indicate that removable batteries and SD cards are not important.

Unless the S6 is your very first phone, you've already made an assessment on the usefulness of removable batteries and SD cards. You've either already decided that neither are important and you're coming from a phone that already doesn't have a removable battery or SD card, or you're coming from a phone that has removable parts, but you've decided they aren't important and that the better design, build and materials are worth the loss of those features.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Well, logically, people wouldn't buy the phone if those features were important to them. The S6 doing well would indicate that removable batteries and SD cards are not important.

And I'm saying that what people want aren't necessary important even to those people. What people want is being manipulated all the time and even without outside pressures changes over time.

The iPhone 5(s) for instance switched to a light all-metal body. This was what people wanted after all, metal and lightness. Turns out that it's much more easily scuffed and dented and you absolutely have to use a case with the iPhone 5(s) unless you're super careful (like me).




The removable battery is like that. Even ignoring the fact that the HTC One (China version) proved that you can have a metal phone with a removable battery, it's actually a desirable feature that people don't realize is important and thus don't "want".

For example, I know someone who has a iPhone 4S and complains that it has terrible battery life compared to Android to which I responded "huh, generally iPhones have good battery life". Turns out her usage pattern (she refuses to charge unless the phone is down to at least 25%) is really killer on the battery cycles and now her phone has really bad battery life. After watching me swap batteries on my GS4, she mentioned that it would have been nice if her 4S could do that. At the very least, it's not a detriment!

 

[Rakehellion]

And where's the 'downgrade' option in the settings on an Android device anyway? I've certainly never seen it.

Or on Windows for that matter.

 

[Zaap]

But yeah, I'll keep my USB battery pack because I think it's about 1000x more convenient than buying a battery for every phone and buying a separate charger for every battery.

Ugh. Yours are some of the absolute worst "arguments" ever. Try logic.

Nothing prevents a phone with a removable battery from using a stupid battery pack also- I just don't need one. A quick swap, and I'm at 100%, no stupid external nonsense hanging off my phone or waiting to recharge it.

"B-but what if you forgot to charge your external blaargh bad logic argument blah de blah..."

Gee, I sure wish I had to tether my DSLR, flashlight, and every other type of mobile electronic device, rather than simply swap out a battery. Makes so much sense.

 

[mrochester]

And I'm saying that what people want aren't necessary important even to those people. What people want is being manipulated all the time and even without outside pressures changes over time.

The iPhone 5(s) for instance switched to a light all-metal body. This was what people wanted after all, metal and lightness. Turns out that it's much more easily scuffed and dented and you absolutely have to use a case with the iPhone 5(s) unless you're super careful (like me).




The removable battery is like that. Even ignoring the fact that the HTC One (China version) proved that you can have a metal phone with a removable battery, it's actually a desirable feature that people don't realize is important and thus don't "want".

For example, I know someone who has a iPhone 4S and complains that it has terrible battery life compared to Android to which I responded "huh, generally iPhones have good battery life". Turns out her usage pattern (she refuses to charge unless the phone is down to at least 25%) is really killer on the battery cycles and now her phone has really bad battery life. After watching me swap batteries on my GS4, she mentioned that it would have been nice if her 4S could do that. At the very least, it's not a detriment!

Right, so your friend now knows that she would like a removable battery, so she won't buy an S6. Like I said, unless the S6 is your first ever phone, you already know whether you would like a removable battery or not.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Right, so your friend now knows that she would like a removable battery, so she won't buy an S6. Like I said, unless the S6 is your first ever phone, you already know whether you would like a removable battery or not.

And there you're wrong. She wants a new iPhone. Despite complaining about the battery all the time.

This is why I'm telling you things don't work out logically. Cognitive dissonance and all.

 

[mrochester]

And there you're wrong. She wants a new iPhone. Despite complaining about the battery all the time.

This is why I'm telling you things don't work out logically. Cognitive dissonance and all.

Right, so she's decided that having iOS is more important than a removable battery. It's a compromise she's decided to make.

 

[touchstone]

I am not saying Apple doesn't make decisions to force customers to upgrade. Quite the opposite, I think 1GB of RAM in 2014 phones is one of the most blatantly examples of planned obsolescence ever seen in the mobile industry. I am just saying that unlike what normals think the point of new OSes are not to make old phones run slow. The point is new design/features that make the phones runs slower because of a higher demand on the hardware.

1gb is crap for 2014 for sure, i dont get how apple customers can just look the other way there. they are blantantly using it to force people to upgrade to the 6s later this year



i have always thought that it is silly to think that apple purposefully slows down its old phones. it doesnt need to, the way mobile software and hardware requirements change there is just no way for a phone to stay relevant for more than a year or two. actually i think the 4s is the longest lasting phone a person could buy, followed closely by the galaxy s3. the latter doesnt have anywhere near as current software updates though, which is why i think its silly to blame apple when they provide software updates for years after android. if anything apple makes up for its sup-par hardware by updating its phones long after any android phone recieves attention

 

[mrochester]

1gb is crap for 2014 for sure, i dont get how apple customers can just look the other way there. they are blantantly using it to force people to upgrade to the 6s later this year



i have always thought that it is silly to think that apple purposefully slows down its old phones. it doesnt need to, the way mobile software and hardware requirements change there is just no way for a phone to stay relevant for more than a year or two. actually i think the 4s is the longest lasting phone a person could buy, followed closely by the galaxy s3. the latter doesnt have anywhere near as current software updates though, which is why i think its silly to blame apple when they provide software updates for years after android. if anything apple makes up for its sup-par hardware by updating its phones long after any android phone recieves attention

Exactly, which makes the sold called 'sub-par' hardware no longer sub-par, and actually a better overall package than what you get from an Android device.

 

[ChronoReverse]

Right, so she's decided that having iOS is more important than a removable battery. It's a compromise she's decided to make.

And yet she also admits that there's really nothing in iOS that actually necessary (and she even owns a Nexus 7 for that matter). It's not a matter of logic and "the most important" thing actually being the most important.

That gets overridden in your mind when you make a purchase/select phone because when you see something shiny, you're not thinking about how you use it a few months down the road even though that will be the majority of your experience!

That's why it's smart for Samsung to make a shiny phone. People make purchases based on gut feeling even when they say they're not. This very forum is an example showing how looks is basically one of the greatest factors determining a purchase despite it actually being practically low in importance since 90% (or some other suitably high number) of people will put their phone in a case ruining the look anyway.



Incidentally, I don't use a case so I can look at my phone so I'm deep in the same boat.

 

[mrochester]

And yet she also admits that there's really nothing in iOS that actually necessary (and she even owns a Nexus 7 for that matter). It's not a matter of logic and "the most important" thing actually being the most important.

That gets overridden in your mind when you make a purchase/select phone because when you see something shiny, you're not thinking about how you use it a few months down the road even though that will be the majority of your experience!

That's why it's smart for Samsung to make a shiny phone. People make purchases based on gut feeling even when they say they're not. This very forum is an example showing how looks is basically one of the greatest factors determining a purchase despite it actually being practically low in importance since 90% (or some other suitably high number) of people will put their phone in a case ruining the look anyway.



Incidentally, I don't use a case so I can look at my phone so I'm deep in the same boat.

Speak for yourself! I buy a phone first ensuring that it does everything I need it to. If I can't get everything I want in a single device (which is never possible) then I start deciding where I'm willing to compromise.

I disagree with your notion that everyone's buying decisions simply boil down to how shiny a product is else non-shiny products wouldn't sell and all shiny products would sell well.

 

[touchstone]

Exactly, which makes the sold called 'sub-par' hardware no longer sub-par, and actually a better overall package than what you get from an Android device.

that is debatable. i personally am not a fan of the iphone 6, but i would say the 5s was superior hardware to contemporary android phones. the problem is that ios is a completely non-functional toy operating system and i wont use it unless i absolutely have no other choice.


you're right tho that people are silly to discount apple hardware. if anything hardware is where apple shines, it is software where they are crap

 

[ChronoReverse]

Speak for yourself! I buy a phone first ensuring that it does everything I need it to. If I can't get everything I want in a single device (which is never possible) then I start deciding where I'm willing to compromise.

I disagree with your notion that everyone's buying decisions simply boil down to how shiny a product is else non-shiny products wouldn't sell and all shiny products would sell well.

Nope, I am trying to be objective here since I clearly said 90% or some suitably higher number, thus acknowledging that there are those who do try to balance their needs. Don't make the assumption that I'm cutting anyone (Apple or Android) any slack here.

In any case, my observation is that although the look and feel is one of the strongest factors for a phone purchase, it ultimately is of lesser importance in practice. I say this because of the ubiquitous use of cases and how complaints of things like battery life is universal.

 

[mrochester]

that is debatable. i personally am not a fan of the iphone 6, but i would say the 5s was superior hardware to contemporary android phones. the problem is that ios is a completely non-functional toy operating system and i wont use it unless i absolutely have no other choice.


you're right tho that people are silly to discount apple hardware. if anything hardware is where apple shines, it is software where they are crap

Yikes, I'd say software is where Apple shines in comparison to the competition!

In any case, my observation is that although the look and feel is one of the strongest factors for a phone purchase, it ultimately is of lesser importance in practice. I say this because of the ubiquitous use of cases and how complaints of things like battery life is universal.

I agree; people look at other factors such as the operating system, available apps, integration with other hardware etc etc.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Yikes, I'd say software is where Apple shines in comparison to the competition!

I would have paid $100 extra to have my iPad Air 2 run Android. Apple hardware and build quality is top notch.

 

[mrochester]

I would have paid $100 extra to have my iPad Air 2 run Android. Apple hardware and build quality is top notch.

I'd expect a significant discount to have a device running Android. Happy to pay a premium for iOS!